CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Feb 19, 2023 at 6:42 AM Post #23,806 of 25,578
Honestly the debate would be put to rest if someone..., anyone..., was able to differentiate a $100 DAC vs $20,000 in a controlled test. I live for that day.

Nothing makes a difference if it's measured well. Measured data is static and can't be manipulated so it fits all use cases. It's all about transparency and we all have same taste. People actually should grab wireless beats and EQ to whatever they like, dummies
 
Feb 19, 2023 at 7:33 AM Post #23,807 of 25,578
Honestly the debate would be put to rest if someone..., anyone..., was able to differentiate a $100 DAC vs $20,000 in a controlled test. I live for that day.
Very seriously, I'll bet you $10,000 I can tell the difference between an M-Dave and (pick your $100 DAC) on Stealths. If you're willing to put that money in escrow with me and split expenses for the test, let's do it.
 
Last edited:
Feb 19, 2023 at 7:39 AM Post #23,808 of 25,578
I think every reviewer should have to review a product being given any measurements...a site like ASR which is an embarrassment looks at measurements and decides a products worth before even listening to it...I have seen too many of their reviews to take them seriously
I've come to the conclusion that the entire ASR population is any of deaf, broke, or stupid.

The entire site runs on the premise that every possible thing that matters in sound is measurable by us at this point in history. Which couldn't be more arrogant or ignorant.
 
Last edited:
Feb 19, 2023 at 7:59 AM Post #23,810 of 25,578
To be fair, DAVE has the best transient resolution, and you can tell by the HiFiNews lab report, measuring distortion alone: "was able to resolve a vanishingly low 0.000007% THD at 1kHz and 0.00008% at 20kHz"

It's just that its noise floor, even if it's just a steady hiss, is too high giving it a lower SINAD.

Also something was wrong with the DAVE unit ASR measured, the channel mismatch and highly variable Channel 2 (SINAD vs time) was an issue. There are also PSU issues.
I don’t think you know what “transient resolution” is. For your education, in audio reproduction, transient resolution refers to how well a system can reproduce these sudden changes in a sound signal without smearing or blurring them. High transient resolution would manifest as clarity, punch, and dynamics. Dave has below average dynamics and bass response. So by definition Dave has below average transient resolution.

Please stop regurgitating marketing speak and stop yourself from getting influenced by marketers.
 
Last edited:
Feb 19, 2023 at 8:00 AM Post #23,811 of 25,578
You're willing to possibly lose 10k...but want to split expenses for the test? :thinking:
It's a matter of fairness, not brokeness. Not many people play in M-Dave/appropriate other gear territory who don't have plenty of money.

Besides, there's no chance I'd lose $10k. And I suspect there's little chance any M-Dave owner on this forum who's deep into audio quality would either.

For me the criterion would be simple: "do I really, really want to keep listening?" Every day I get entranced by M-Dave and find it very hard to pull myself away. No other DAC has had this effect. So discerning the difference would be a piece of cake.

I know the ASR lemmings say this is not a legitimate test of audio quality. But in fact it's arguably the only legitimate test of audio quality. And I look forward to taking their money.
 
Last edited:
Feb 19, 2023 at 8:17 AM Post #23,812 of 25,578
Very seriously, I'll bet you $10,000 I can tell the difference between an M-Dave and (pick your $100 DAC) on Stealths. If you're willing to put that money in escrow with me and split expenses for
I’d honestly like to see you win and rub dirt into the eyes of those ASR thugs, but alas it’s not going to happen with my money though.
 
Feb 19, 2023 at 8:21 AM Post #23,813 of 25,578
I’d honestly like to see you win and rub dirt into the eyes of those ASR thugs, but alas it’s not going to happen with my money though.
I bet most people (and certainly M-Dave owners) would win that bet if they knew what to listen for. Which is of course why it would be so easy to wipe the floor with the ASR crew: they think that something sounding better is shown not by listening to see if it sounds better, but by numbers on a page. What could be more ignorant?
 
Last edited:
Feb 19, 2023 at 8:24 AM Post #23,814 of 25,578
I don’t think you know what “transient resolution” is. For your education, in audio reproduction, transient resolution refers to how well a system can reproduce these sudden changes in a sound signal without smearing or blurring them. High transient resolution would manifest as clarity, punch, and dynamics. Dave has below average dynamics and bass response. So by definition Dave has below average transient resolution.

Please stop regurgitating marketing speak and stop yourself from getting influenced by marketers.

Again, another dumb comment. Why do you keep showing your own lack of understanding?

Punch, dynamics, bass response in a DAC? What are you on. Punch, dynamics, bass response etc. are provided by an amp driving a load, the characteristics of the amp and the transducers combined. The DAC has one just one job but to feed a clean and correct signal.

The DAVE is one of the highest clarity DACs on the market, and that's been THE reason why it's been such a renowned DAC the past 8 years. Maybe you really do need a hearing exam. Time and frequency domain are very much related; the fact that you have such low THD, in the context of a DAC, is testament to its incredible transient resolution.
 
Feb 19, 2023 at 8:33 AM Post #23,815 of 25,578
Again, another dumb comment. Why do you keep showing your own lack of understanding?

Punch, dynamics, bass response in a DAC? What are you on. Punch, dynamics, bass response etc. are provided by an amp driving a load, the characteristics of the amp and the transducers combined. The DAC has one just one job but to feed a clean and correct signal.

The DAVE is one of the highest clarity DACs on the market, and that's been THE reason why it's been such a renowned DAC the past 8 years. Maybe you really do need a hearing exam. Time and frequency domain are very much related; the fact that you have such low THD, in the context of a DAC, is testament to its incredible transient resolution.
I see we got a budding audiophile here. Welcome to the hobby. Now go listen to a Dave with Sean Jacobs PSU, reflect on your above comment and report back.
 
Feb 19, 2023 at 8:58 AM Post #23,816 of 25,578
Punch, dynamics, bass response in a DAC? What are you on. Punch, dynamics, bass response etc. are provided by an amp driving a load, the characteristics of the amp and the transducers combined. The DAC has one just one job but to feed a clean and correct signal.
Yes, different DACs, just like different amplifiers, have different amounts of punch, dynamics, bass response, etc.
 
Feb 19, 2023 at 9:46 AM Post #23,817 of 25,578
I've come to the conclusion that the entire ASR population is any of deaf, broke, or stupid.

The entire site runs on the premise that every possible thing that matters in sound is measurable by us at this point in history. Which couldn't be more arrogant or ignorant.
It's basically a trolling site with very strange connection to Chi-Fi companies like Topping. He never publishes his console settings, which Golden Sound showed can be manipulated to cook the Numbers, I don't take anything they say seriously at all, in fact, I stopped wasting my time by not visiting that site anymore. Completely biased and loves to roast companies that charge a premium for their products, honestly it even looks like engineering envy to me, crazy.
 
Feb 19, 2023 at 1:12 PM Post #23,818 of 25,578
ASR's APx555 measurements are pretty close to Golden Sounds for Dave...

Does that make Golden Sounds measurements an embarrassment too ?
I do not dispute measurements, personally I couldnt care less...my point is that measurements are interesting but do not necessarily translate into good or bad sound..for example I know the topping amp measures well and I own one as a travel type amp...I also own several higher end amps and they are dramatically better than the topping to the point where there is no comparison....I am not saying that the topping amp is a bad product, I own it after all..what I am saying is that although it is measured well and has very little distortion it lacks so many of the other factors that make an amp really good...I suggest that a reviewer should be forced to review products without measurements because I think certain reviewers look at the measurements before they listen and decide that the product is subpar before they even listen...you know the abyss1266 doesnt measure well so it is a poor HP....etc etc....measurements are certainly a part of the story...I dont want an under powered amp for my susvara but in general I think it is a crutch...ASR seems to exist as an iconoclastic enterprise to prove that just about all high priced gear is snake oil.....a 100K mercedes and a 20K ford both get you to your destination but not in the same way..I am sure that if ASR reviewed cars we would be told the mercedes is no better than the ford..lots of high priced gear doesnt live up to its price but I get the sense reading comments on ASR that for many people there who cant afford higher priced gear the site is a place for all these people to mock those who spend their disposable income on higher end gear....the first thing I normally read is how stupid the people who buy the gear are etc....not worth my time..FWIIW I will put my CFA3 up against amps costing multiples more so I am not suggesting price determines better or worse but in general it is a decent starting point once you achieve a certain level of performance
 
Last edited:
Feb 19, 2023 at 1:25 PM Post #23,819 of 25,578
I do not dispute measurements, personally I couldnt care less...my point is that measurements are interesting but do not necessarily translate into good or bad sound..for example I know the topping amp measures well and I own one as a travel type amp...I also own several higher end amps and they are dramatically better than the topping to the point where there is no comparison....I am not saying that the topping amp is a bad product, I own it after all..what I am saying is that although it is measured well and has very little distortion it lacks so many of the other factors that make an amp really good...I suggest that a reviewer should be forced to review products without measurements because I think certain reviewers look at the measurements before they listen and decide that the product is subpar before they even listen...you know the abyss1266 doesnt measure well so it is a poor HP....etc etc....measurements are certainly a part of the story...I dont want an under powered amp for my susvara but in general I think it is a crutch...ASR seems to exist as an iconoclastic enterprise to prove that just about all high priced gear is snake oil.....a 100K mercedes and a 20K ford both get you to your destination but not in the same way..I am sure that if ASR reviewed cars we would be told the mercedes is no better than the ford..lots of high priced gear doesnt live up to its price but I get the sense reading comments on ASR that for many people there who cant afford higher priced gear the site is a place for all these people to mock those who spend their disposable income on higher end gear....the first thing I normally read is how stupid the people who buy the gear are etc....not worth my time..FWIIW I will put my CFA3 up against amps costing multiples more so I am not suggesting price determines better or worse but in general it is a decent starting point once you achieve a certain level of performance
So true, it's sad really. I've seen some reviews he's done where he actually shows the snake oil in hardware, such as a plug he reviewed that had nothing inside to filter anything and it was claiming to filter noise. He can do good as well, the issue lies in the preference factor when products are engineered well and a bias towards cheap products. Hey I would love for the cheap products to sound the same way, I'd save a lot of money, sadly that's usually not the case.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top