[Reactcore]

The Dave 2 requires only 1 input imho, an optical input for the new mScaler. Dual optical inputs to the Dave from the Mscaler using the Opto-DX are absolutely brilliant. I have absolutely no brightness inducing fatigue in my system. Just pure natural sound. All digital inputs should be on the mScaler to prevent noise entering the Dave. Dave 2 requires a high resolution optical input for the mScaler. MSB are doing this with their digital director. It would be good too if the mScaler had digital equalisation like Mojo 2, but with more equaliser bands. Another useful feature for the Dave 2 would also be a reduced analogue output voltage level or gain so that excessive output attenuation hasn't to be applied in the digital domain. I currently listen to the Dave and Mscaler at -45 dB. The TT2 already has variable gain.

Its remarkable to see MSB is now also focussing on digital filtering and optical rf rejection.. leaving their DA section the same
It means were not talking nonsense here

 

[audio_1]

Its remarkable to see MSB is now also focussing on digital filtering and optical rf rejection.. leaving their DA section the same
It means were not talking nonsense here

It certainty is. We were ahead here, with the Opto-dx and now your mScaler choral conversion. I saw the MSB digital director in Munich last May at the High End Show. It uses 10 km SFP modules with OS2 LC-LC single mode fibre. I specified these for my own network a few years ago. The 10 km SFP modules are the shortest range single mode fibre SFP modules available. Hopefully Rob will do something similar on Dave 2 and the new mScaler. Although ST fibre, (preferably single mode) as used by yourself and Emm Labs is probably simpler.

 

[Reactcore]

It certainty is. We were ahead here, with the Opto-dx and now your mScaler choral conversion. I saw the MSB digital director in Munich last May at the High End Show. It uses 10 km SFP modules with OS2 LC-LC single mode fibre. I specified these for my own network a few years ago. The 10 km SFP modules are the shortest range single mode fibre SFP modules available. Hopefully Rob will do something similar on Dave 2 and the new mScaler. Although ST fibre, (preferably single mode) as used by yourself and Emm Labs is probably simpler.

I did alot with industrial grade fibers in my career as a CCTV engineer starting with analog modulated signals

Singlemode (9um) was and is used for long distance transport upto 50km while multimode (50 & 62.5um) is used to about 2km.. my cable is a laughable 1m..
Chord's DBNC link runs at 50mbit per output
Thats half of a standard FX ethernet.

MM has more than enough bandwidth.
SM would be ovetkill for this and wont add any bennefit.. its only for multi Gbit networking or long distances.

 

[SteveHulk]

I did alot with industrial grade fibers in my career as a CCTV engineer starting with analog modulated signals

Singlemode (9um) was and is used for long distance transport upto 50km while multimode (50 & 62.5um) is used to about 2km.. my cable is a laughable 1m..
Chord's DBNC link runs at 50mbit per output
Thats half of a standard FX ethernet.

MM has more than enough bandwidth.
SM would be ovetkill for this and wont add any bennefit.. its only for multi Gbit networking or long distances.

It's really looking like in applications where it's about transmitting digital signals rather than analogue or power that optical could be the way things might go. The main issue, as I see it, is the longevity of the optical modules. In the comms industry they seem to address this by having plug-in optical modules that can be quickly swapped out if they fail.

The cable manufacturers would hate this

 

[jlbrach]

I actually like how it is.. Dave ..and my self designed scaler.. for me is a (almost) timeless piece of kit.

All fancy features i search in a player like high resolution screen roon or fast gui i want separately ..controlled with my phone/tablet.

Im using a oldschool thinclient pc running win7 embedded with also oldschool looking foobar2k. Stable as a rock and serves me well for many years.

I like separates, much easier to upgrade if one part of the chain is outdated...right now I have an innuous streamer with my dave/blu2 and it works well for me....all in ones are always attractive on paper but not so much in reality

 

[GryphonGuy]

I did alot with industrial grade fibers in my career as a CCTV engineer starting with analog modulated signals

Singlemode (9um) was and is used for long distance transport upto 50km while multimode (50 & 62.5um) is used to about 2km.. my cable is a laughable 1m..
Chord's DBNC link runs at 50mbit per output
Thats half of a standard FX ethernet.

MM has more than enough bandwidth.
SM would be ovetkill for this and wont add any bennefit.. its only for multi Gbit networking or long distances.

You've clearly not heard audio transported over the Single Mode fibre with 1310nm wavelength versus Multi-mode fibre with 850nm wavelength to say there would be no benefit. Coming from an IT background, I thought so too but I had a cacophony of people imploring me to try single-mode with 1310nm transceivers. The upshot of my testing was that I replaced all my Multi-mode fibre with Single-mode. The difference is that stark and unsubtle. YMMV.

 

[muski]

I must admit like the idea of each device doing what it's best at. I have my Auralic Aries G1 as my streamer, then my new DAVE (which I chose above the Mola Mola over a recent 3 day home test) then this goes into my Pathos Inpol Ear to my Utopia's.
I liike the fact I have in mind the upgrade for my Auralic later in time but the rest will be long term owners.

Yes, I feel the same way. I find a highly-resolving DAC live the DAVE is very sensitive to its streamer. I pair my M Scaler + DAVE with a Sonore opticalRendu for streaming and an Innuos Phoenix USB for re-clocking.

I've also tried the internal wifi and ethernet streaming options built into my Devialet Expert 1000 Pro Dual. Though they're fine, neither come close to the quality I get feeding it with the opticalRendu.

Building a DAVE-worthy streamer is no mean feat.

 

[miketlse]

You've clearly not heard audio transported over the Single Mode fibre with 1310nm wavelength versus Multi-mode fibre with 850nm wavelength to say there would be no benefit. Coming from an IT background, I thought so too but I had a cacophony of people imploring me to try single-mode with 1310nm transceivers. The upshot of my testing was that I replaced all my Multi-mode fibre with Single-mode. The difference is that stark and unsubtle. YMMV.

How does changing the mode, change the analogue music output?

 

[muski]

You've clearly not heard audio transported over the Single Mode fibre with 1310nm wavelength versus Multi-mode fibre with 850nm wavelength to say there would be no benefit. Coming from an IT background, I thought so too but I had a cacophony of people imploring me to try single-mode with 1310nm transceivers. The upshot of my testing was that I replaced all my Multi-mode fibre with Single-mode. The difference is that stark and unsubtle. YMMV.

I had a similar experience and recently switched from multimode to singlemode.

I'm also loving the newly-released Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe fiber-to-ethernet converter. It replaced a $20 TP-Link media converter—which was (unsurprisingly) super noisy (even with a good LPS).

 

[audio_1]

You've clearly not heard audio transported over the Single Mode fibre with 1310nm wavelength versus Multi-mode fibre with 850nm wavelength to say there would be no benefit. Coming from an IT background, I thought so too but I had a cacophony of people imploring me to try single-mode with 1310nm transceivers. The upshot of my testing was that I replaced all my Multi-mode fibre with Single-mode. The difference is that stark and unsubtle. YMMV.

I selected single mode fibre as in the context of Audio components the OS2 LC SFP modules and single mode fibre is still relatively good value at only a few hundred euro. I'm also using single mode fibre cables with the Opto-Dx.

 

[audio_1]

My fibre link from the router to the Melco S100 switch consist of Single mode LC UPC to LC UPC Duplex OS2 fibre and SFP modules. I use Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFP modules and a Corning 40402G5Z20020M LC Duplex to LC Duplex, SMF-28® Ultra OS2, 20 m fibre patch cord

 

[Reactcore]

You've clearly not heard audio transported over the Single Mode fibre with 1310nm wavelength versus Multi-mode fibre with 850nm wavelength to say there would be no benefit. Coming from an IT background, I thought so too but I had a cacophony of people imploring me to try single-mode with 1310nm transceivers. The upshot of my testing was that I replaced all my Multi-mode fibre with Single-mode. The difference is that stark and unsubtle. YMMV.

Yes i have.. using SFP's and SC with my test setup. I used broadcom 1310nm modules.

I doubt you heard the DBNC link over SM fibers which is not IP based.. You are mistaken it with network ethernet data transmission i think.

See here what im talking about:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-choral-housed-chord-mscaler.964931/post-17173702

 

[muski]

How does changing the mode, change the analogue music output?

To my ears, with the singlemode cable I heard more detail without more harshness, and the usual sound characteristics of lower RF noise.

But this is a tough area to assess as apart from the DAC & streamer, there are a lot of factors at play including the fiber cable & connector quality, the specific SFPs (single vs multi, 1G vs 10Gb, etc.), the fiber media converter & its power supply—and even the quality of the Ethernet signal feeding the fiber media converter (e.g. I use an Innuos PhoenixNET).

So very much a case where everyone’s results may vary, and deference is needed to other’s setups and ears.

cheers,
muski

 

[sm60]

Fans of the M-Scaler might “enjoy“ reading its review on ASR.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/chord-m-scaler-review-upsampler.35498/

Review summary:

“Conclusions
I was very disappointed to see high noise levels and jitter on Coax outputs of such an expensive digital products. And one where its designer claims you can hear problems at 300 dBFS. Well, if you can hear that well, then maybe you can hear this jitter too so I suggest not releasing a product that performs this bad. Second, there is a serious compatibility issue with third-part DAC that I tested. Maybe it is OK with other DACs, I don't know. But grabbing a sample DAC and having such serious degradation in its performance with M-scaler is very concerning.

Putting design issues aside, I found no audible difference in upsampling with company's own DAC. As it should be. The differences in the filter are above audible band so they should not be audible. Is it nice to have a sharper filter? Sure. But I sure as heck wouldn't pay nearly $6,000 to get that.

Bottom line, I don't see a reason to own M-Scaler. It can damage the audio signal in some cases and in others, provide no audible benefit. If people think otherwise, I highly suggest performing a blind test with enough repetition to provide statistically valid results. Otherwise, the M-scaler remains as a product with no purpose.”

Ouch! That’s a hard hitting review!

 

[Ciggavelli]

Fans of the M-Scaler might “enjoy“ reading its review on ASR.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/chord-m-scaler-review-upsampler.35498/

Review summary:

“Conclusions
I was very disappointed to see high noise levels and jitter on Coax outputs of such an expensive digital products. And one where its designer claims you can hear problems at 300 dBFS. Well, if you can hear that well, then maybe you can hear this jitter too so I suggest not releasing a product that performs this bad. Second, there is a serious compatibility issue with third-part DAC that I tested. Maybe it is OK with other DACs, I don't know. But grabbing a sample DAC and having such serious degradation in its performance with M-scaler is very concerning.

Putting design issues aside, I found no audible difference in upsampling with company's own DAC. As it should be. The differences in the filter are above audible band so they should not be audible. Is it nice to have a sharper filter? Sure. But I sure as heck wouldn't pay nearly $6,000 to get that.

Bottom line, I don't see a reason to own M-Scaler. It can damage the audio signal in some cases and in others, provide no audible benefit. If people think otherwise, I highly suggest performing a blind test with enough repetition to provide statistically valid results. Otherwise, the M-scaler remains as a product with no purpose.”

Ouch! That’s a hard hitting review!

We still listening to ASR in 2022?