Feb 26, 2016 at 9:26 PM Post #1,786 of 26,949
No sorry, I am in Korea, just finished some presentations. I want to do Bristol, as I have not done something there, and yet its so close to my home. Then off to Tokyo for more presentations and interviews next week.
 
This week-end I am working on the code for the Dave standard upgrade for the Blu and Red ref CD players. The PCB was finished earlier this week.
 
Rob
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 9:45 PM Post #1,787 of 26,949
   
Hi Rob,John, 
 
Great to meet you on the 1st day of CAMJAM Singapore. I have a Mojo for a few weeks and after hearing about your presentation on Mojo and Dave, I was keen to listen to Dave too. Good thing the local agent AV1 had one in the show.
 
The first time I heard Dave for a minutes, under show conditions, the sound quality was not obvious, as the setup of was different from mine: different can, Windows player, & different songs. 
 
So went back to listen to the Dave Dac next day for 30 mins using my MacBook, Audirvana+(no upsampling) , CD and DSD albums on a HifiMan HE1000.  
 
Wow. Outstanding sound. Best Dac I've every heard. Very transparent, lost of accurate details and very musical. This is my idea of what great music sounds like. 
 
The albums sounds so much closer to a live performance than anything I've heard before in Hifi .Couldn't stop smiling . 
 
So now I'm really happy with the Mojo, and using it every day to discover albums and hear music presented in life like way.
 
And also happy to know I've found what I can upgrade to in future - Dave.
 
Looking forward to your ADC too. Do get the code done soon and get it out. Can't wait to too hear well recorded music converted on your ADC and played back on Dave :) 
 
Rick 

 
Yes agreed - that's the sound of Dave - very real "your there" sound.
 
Me too on the ADC (project code word Davina), its a project that I have been working on for a long time (actually the first prototype was in 2001). There are a number of key things happening that conventional ADC's don't do well - noise floor modulation, aliasing, and noise shaper resolution. The noise floor modulation issue was solved way back in 2001. Aliasing is a major problem - normal ADC decimation filters are half band, so offer worst case only -6dB rejection. But I have used -140 dB decimation filters, and can still hear the effects of aliasing. Fortunately its not difficult to design a filter that has no aliasing, its just FPGA resources. On the noise shaper side, getting Dave standard (350dB) is not a problem, I have already designed that noise shaper.
 
We will be doing test recordings later this year, so I will publish test samples too on Head-Fi. I too am very excited about the sound quality possibilities of the ADC.
 
Rob
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 10:07 PM Post #1,788 of 26,949
No sorry, I am in Korea, just finished some presentations. I want to do Bristol, as I have not done something there, and yet its so close to my home. Then off to Tokyo for more presentations and interviews next week.

This week-end I am working on the code for the Dave standard upgrade for the Blu and Red ref CD players. The PCB was finished earlier this week.

Rob


"DAVE standard upgrade?"
Upgrade for Dave? :grimacing:

Will the Red Ref CD also have DAVE integrated? :grimacing:
And lst but not lest, what upgrades are you doing on the Blu Transport ? :grimacing:

Please be more detailed here ;) :beers:
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 10:18 PM Post #1,789 of 26,949
"DAVE standard upgrade?"
Upgrade for Dave? :grimacing:

Will the Red Ref CD also have DAVE integrated? :grimacing:
And lst but not lest, what upgrades are you doing on the Blu Transport ? :grimacing:

Please be more detailed here
wink.gif
:beers:

No its a brand new upsampler PCB which brings the Blu and Red reference to Dave standard. At the moment Dave is better than the upsampler fitted into the old CD players, so you are better off listening to 44.1. The new PCB will mean it will sound better with the upsampler when using Dave. Absolutely no upgrade for Dave, that's not possible. 
 
Rob
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 12:50 AM Post #1,790 of 26,949
Rob, obviously such a product is for studios and not consumers and it makes sense to do it right at the ADC rather than to have to correct for it at the DAC.  Is this your answer for MQA?
You are partially right we will make a version specifically for the professionals in the recording industry, but we will also be making versions to go into possible future new products including RIAA cartridge amplifiers and Digital pre amplifiers
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 1:20 AM Post #1,791 of 26,949
   
Yes agreed - that's the sound of Dave - very real "your there" sound.
 
Me too on the ADC (project code word Davina), its a project that I have been working on for a long time (actually the first prototype was in 2001). There are a number of key things happening that conventional ADC's don't do well - noise floor modulation, aliasing, and noise shaper resolution. The noise floor modulation issue was solved way back in 2001. Aliasing is a major problem - normal ADC decimation filters are half band, so offer worst case only -6dB rejection. But I have used -140 dB decimation filters, and can still hear the effects of aliasing. Fortunately its not difficult to design a filter that has no aliasing, its just FPGA resources. On the noise shaper side, getting Dave standard (350dB) is not a problem, I have already designed that noise shaper.
 
We will be doing test recordings later this year, so I will publish test samples too on Head-Fi. I too am very excited about the sound quality possibilities of the ADC.
 
Rob


What bit rate and sampling rate will your  Davina ADC be working at in its optimal highest possible  resolution setting?
In the classical recording industry more and more labels are recording in DXD  ie 24/352.8 and release at lower  bit rates and sampling rates.
But some, notably 2L and LAWO from Norway and Challenge Classics are also releasing their original DXD masters and various  downsampling rates  including DSD up to 256, from those.Hugo runs at 32/358.2 with DXD recorded albums. And Dave at 32/768 doesn't it?
At least that is what I think I saw on the display when it was lit.
I assume Davina will record at similar rates as does  Dave internally?
Talking about hi res in general, Challenge Classics has got an interesting article on their homesite " The Spirit of Turtle" on what constitutes hi res and what doesn't according to them.
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 2:03 AM Post #1,792 of 26,949
No its a brand new upsampler PCB which brings the Blu and Red reference to Dave standard. At the moment Dave is better than the upsampler fitted into the old CD players, so you are better off listening to 44.1. The new PCB will mean it will sound better with the upsampler when using Dave. Absolutely no upgrade for Dave, that's not possible. 

Rob
Hi Rob
Fantastic news that the blu upgrade is coming,could we be seeing a daul data optical mode?
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 2:07 AM Post #1,793 of 26,949
Davina will be 44.1 kHz to 768 kHz, with two differing sample rate outputs with say 44.1 or 768 available together. This is done without SRC.
 
Bit depth will be user programmable, 16,24 or 32.
 
Rob
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 3:06 AM Post #1,794 of 26,949
Yes I noticed 44.1 kHz was best with the Red Ref III and Dave dac Rob. At first I thought 88khz might be tighter but only because there was slightly less bass but when I switched to 44.1 it was clearly more natural. The 88.2 was not natural by comparison. I guess from your comment this will be resolved with an upgrade.
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 3:26 AM Post #1,796 of 26,949
  No its a brand new upsampler PCB which brings the Blu and Red reference to Dave standard. At the moment Dave is better than the upsampler fitted into the old CD players, so you are better off listening to 44.1. The new PCB will mean it will sound better with the upsampler when using Dave. Absolutely no upgrade for Dave, that's not possible. 
 
Rob

 
Thats great news Rob (especially as I have two Blu's linked to two QBD76's).
 
Any idea of when this will be available for the Blu and estimated cost  ?  
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 3:40 AM Post #1,797 of 26,949
Yes the upgrade will mean it is better SQ when using the upsampler. 
 
I can't say how much it will be - we work to a fairly straightforward recipe - Chord want something better, so I design something that will work technically, then its priced after the design prototype meets the target, and pricing is just multiples of the parts cost.
 
The upgrade should be available later this year.
 
Rob
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 4:11 AM Post #1,798 of 26,949
  Yes the upgrade will mean it is better SQ when using the upsampler. 
 
I can't say how much it will be - we work to a fairly straightforward recipe - Chord want something better, so I design something that will work technically, then its priced after the design prototype meets the target, and pricing is just multiples of the parts cost.
 
The upgrade should be available later this year.
 
Rob


Thank you Rob.  Much appreciated.
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 9:45 AM Post #1,799 of 26,949
  Davina will be 44.1 kHz to 768 kHz, with two differing sample rate outputs with say 44.1 or 768 available together. This is done without SRC.
 
Bit depth will be user programmable, 16,24 or 32.
 
Rob


Thanks Rob , really  good to hear.  I am really looking forward to hear  and possibly even record acoustic music  without compromise for a listening experience even  closer to the real thing, live acoustic music in a real venue, than hitherto possible.  But why would you include 16/44.1 on a product intended for the recording industry?
Is there really ANYONE who still records at such low bitrates and sampling rates as a compromised standard of 30 years ago? Even in the world of POP AND ROCK?
The first attempt to make rbcd listenable for large scale classical was Reference Recordings, Prof Johnsson's hi def carrier signal based, HDCD. But imho   although an important  step in the right direction,it was  not good enough.
With Hugo it sounds sound ok, but no more imho.
I still hear  thinness and lack of true resolution and  realism  from 16/44.1 and even 24/44.1,unlike the  effortless reproduction that I almost take for granted these days not only from direct cut LPs as in the old days, but also from hi res digital ,particularly via your DACs, provided the recording and balancing engineers have done their job correctly and not messed things up with too many and too close mics.
Phase anomalies as a result of mixing in too many mics is often  a real problem.
Classical needs true  hi res.
 
I fully understand that there are a lot of consumers who are stuck  in the world of rbcd or mp3 or whatever,because that is what they know and how  the music they listen to  is delivered to them. And frankly most of it needs no more.
Johnny Cash  or Rolling Stones will never sound good to my ears.Neither even gave a thought to good and accurate transparent SQ.
Their recordings are so full of inherent distortions that they couldn't even be considered in any relevant HI FI sense imo.  Especially not played via capable DACs like Hugo Mojo or Dave and headphones like the HE1000 or Sennheiser's new stratospherically priced Orpheus.
On the contrary, the more transparent the delivery chain the more obvious ,the deficiences of the material and recording  imo.
There is neither  any  notable dynamic range, mostly just far too loud, nor any  real HF   harmonics  ,no  real depth or width or soundstage.No subtle layers of sounds as  from  up to a hundred instruments as in  complex symphonic music. Nor, any real  low level information to be retrieved in most modern  commercial stuff.There is to my knowledge NO ONE absolutely no one, in the real world of acoustic music and classical  in particular who still records with a format that is so temporally/timing compromised as 16/44.1.
PS Another label that recently, but not always, delivers realistic SQ in the classical genre is Chandos, Especially their latest recordings using  Merging HORUS and Ravenna mixing direct in the hall at sessions and using few and  some of the best mics available.
Their two recent  Raff albums are  prettty good examples of how an orchestra sounds in a real hall with both natural  ambience and lots of low level detail and realistic timbres captured at 24/96 ,that rbcd simply doesn't capture as realistically to my spoilt ears used to live symphonic music.
It would be really nice to hear  if Davina can beat the so far best digitally recorded piano SQ I have heard, Morten  Lindberg's DXD  recording of Beethoven's mighty OPUS 111 piano sonata.
Very good indeed at home via Hugo and 500 watts amplification per channel into my electrostatic speakers and even more impressive via DAVE and HE1000.
Please include grand piano  and other real acoustic music on your first demo recordings from Davina.
 
 
Cheers Chris currently in warm and sunny Thailand.
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 3:41 PM Post #1,800 of 26,949
  Yes the upgrade will mean it is better SQ when using the upsampler....
 
Rob

 
Do this mean that when using the BLU with DAVE, this "BLU upgrade" won't make any SQ difference since all the up-sampling can be done in the DAVE anyway ? 
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top