[sm60]

I can understand your point of view but the same can be said about Roon going out business. It has been bought and sold a number of times already. I’ve used Roon before and I don’t like its interface and sound. I’ve built computers before but I’m not interested in searching for different combinations of parts for optimal sound. I’m fairly certain that the cheapest Zen mini will still sound better than a Roon core server and will be cheaper with all costs of the latter added up. To each his own.

It’s your money and your choice, obviously. But as a matter of opinion, John Atkinson, longtime editor of Stereophile, who’s heard more high end digital audio products than any of us have, and measured thousands of digital audio products, did a review of the top of the line Innuos Statement. He found no discernible improvement in sound between the Statement and his Roon Rock server. I haven’t sampled any Innuos products, so I’ll withhold my judgement. But I’m perfectly happy with both my Rock server and with Roon as well. Roon has made a huge difference to my listening and I for one view it as a game changer in high end audio — possibly the single biggest advance since compact discs were invented 40 years ago. It’s no surprise that every high end manufacturer who wants to compete in the market has to ensure their streamers are Roon Ready, or face quick oblivion.

In any case I don’t worry about digital front ends anymore. That’s not where the major problems in high end audio are. Look at the other end. When your average moving coil loudspeaker has 5-10% harmonic distortion and huge frequency imbalances in the bass due to your listening room, that’s the higher order bit to get right. Headphones are so horribly colored — it’s a joke. Check out the frequency response curves of even the most expensive headphones. The biggest breakthrough in audio reproduction will only happen if we can solve the speaker/headphone/room colorations, which in my long experience dwarf by many orders of magnitude any differences between DACs.

 

[sm60]

I do like Innuos products, in general (I had a Zenith Mk3 in the past and still have a PhoenixUSB).

2 major complaints:

1) I received two Zenith’s that were broken, and then the third got bricked due to one of their updates. It got fixed, but they’re batting 0% in quality control. I could have just randomly got some bad units, but the odds are pretty slim. Luckily, the Phoenix has been fine

2) If you want to upgrade the internal storage, you have to ship it back to Portugal, for them to install their software on their ssd (you can’t do it yourself, and the process is much more expensive than just buying an SSD and putting it into your server). Also, the Zenith can only have 8tb of music total. This is a problem if you have an extensive library or do that PGGB “mastering”.

So I got rid of my Zenith Mk3 because of these issues. I moved on to an Antipodes K50. I’m a big fan, it doesn’t have the storage limitations of the Zenith Mk3, hasn’t broke (Knick on wood), and sounds better. You do pay for it though. However, I’d take a K50 over a Statement because the Statement still has these storage limitations and issues.

Good grief, you have to ship your PC back to Portugal to replace a hard drive? How are these clowns even in business? I don’t want to speculate but this sounds like a sure way to go bankrupt fast. Only in the crazy world of high end audio would a company like this even exist! Imagine if you have to ship your car back to Japan to replace a flat tire!

 

[VladYR]

Good grief, you have to ship your PC back to Portugal to replace a hard drive? How are these clowns even in business? I don’t want to speculate but this sounds like a sure way to go bankrupt fast. Only in the crazy world of high end audio would a company like this even exist! Imagine if you have to ship your car back to Japan to replace a flat tire!

You certainly got it right on one point. This sort of nonsense can only exist in the rarified world of high end audio. Yesterday my Linn dealer arranged to ship my Selekt all the way back to Scotland because of a faulty power supply. One month to replace a power supply…

 

[jlbrach]

@Currawong nice review. I really liked the part about black background - Amos made an interesting point.
I remember in the early days black background was desired from the dac - at least from my side.
It was seen as something good - oh dac has black background you cannot hear anything between instruments look how low is the noise floor etc.
But with the Dave that's not the case. There is no black background, you hear so much more like extremely low level details/sounds that background is more like grey - if it makes any sense.

black background to me doesnt mean a lack of musical sounds...it means of lack of noise that degrades the sound and makes it more difficult to hear detail...when I have improved my network...power cables etc the background became more black which let me hear more detail and made bass more prominent..I speak of adding the innuos zenith 3 and the phoenix...I really think he is confusing black background....the powerman added to the formula s also created a blacker background

 

[tomwoo]

I agree.. I can't understand why people want to change from Dave to another dac. I have chosen not to use the word upgrade as it is obviously a down grade. The unique technical properties and sound quality of the Dave and M-scaler don't appear to be appreciated my many owners. It they are not happy with how their system sounds or are not enjoying the music, there must be a weak link some where else in their systems.

How about Mola Mola Tambaqui or dCS Bartok? Some say they have already surpassed Dave. I have never heard Dave, Tambaqui or Bartok, so it's safe to say I would be blown away by any of them

 

[audio_1]

2,021,885.87

The world of high end digital audio is fast evolving and Chord is far behind the times. Just look at comparable products from Linn and Naim, two other Brit boutique manufacturers, to see how far Chord has fallen behind.

How can the most advanced dac in the world, the Dave in combination with the M-scaler be far behind the times compared to dacs using off the shelf dac chips, or one that hasn't changed much in the last 20 years and has it's analogue outputs connected with computer ribbon cable? You really don't understand Rob Watts achievements or the sound quality that he has achieved.

 

[Hooster]

In any case I don’t worry about digital front ends anymore. That’s not where the major problems in high end audio are. Look at the other end. When your average moving coil loudspeaker has 5-10% harmonic distortion and huge frequency imbalances in the bass due to your listening room, that’s the higher order bit to get right. Headphones are so horribly colored — it’s a joke. Check out the frequency response curves of even the most expensive headphones. The biggest breakthrough in audio reproduction will only happen if we can solve the speaker/headphone/room colorations, which in my long experience dwarf by many orders of magnitude any differences between DACs.

Agreed, digital front ends are not an issue, unless you are desperately looking for something to sink money into.

Great news, your trials and tribulations with respect to headphones are over: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...alth-review-state-of-the-art-headphone.25920/

 

[iDesign]

How can the most advanced dac in the world, the Dave in combination with the M-scaler be far behind the times...

The answer is 82 trolling posts.

 

[adrianm]

I can't seem to find @Rob Watts old posts on Dave's headphone amp specs, does anyone have any opinion (if not objective values ) on how well Dave could drive the Stealth based on ASR's measurements?

 

[DJJEZ]

I can't seem to find @Rob Watts old posts on Dave's headphone amp specs, does anyone have any opinion (if not objective values ) on how well Dave could drive the Stealth based on ASR's measurements?

 

[Ragnar-BY]

@DJJEZ there are milliVolts in one pic and Watts in other. These are not the same.

 

[miketlse]

@DJJEZ there are milliVolts in one pic and Watts in other. These are not the same.

Maybe you and i are flagging up the same question, in that most, if not all the spreadsheets in chord threads, refer to mW to reach a certain sound pressure level, the posted image refers to mV instead. This compares apples to oranges, and easily confuses non technical head-fi posters.

 

[Kirklandia]

easily confuses non technical head-fi posters

I had no idea there were so many Rob Watts

 

[miketlse]

I had no idea there were so many Rob Watts

Is that a dig at me, or someone else?

 

[jlbrach]

a new m-scaler makes perfect sense...this way he can keep the dave as the basic DAC and rather than updating it he can continue to update the m-scaler..