CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[adrianm]

Thanks for this. I am fairly new to the hobby so still learning. In my case I would be streaming max 192 khz as I only use Qobuz and Tidal, no PCM or DSD files, so I guess optical could do the job, from that perspective?

yeah,same here,which is why i'm sticking with optical

 

[doraymon]

My setup is similar U1 Mini -> MScaler -> DAVE -> Utopia and have been happy with the U1 Mini so far (18 months). But have not compared it to any other sources outside of a MacBook.

Well the M-scaler it's a big difference! But happy to see I am not the only one using the U1 Mini, on the paper it should provide a quality flow of bits to the DAVE, for sure less noisy than my PC!!
And the USB/OPT output option will give me many hours of entertainment with A/B testing...

 

[adrianm]

So my thinking is that Rob probably did a great job in minimizing differences but that Mac mini was just terrible output. I’ll be surprised if hear significant improvement once the Link II arrives. But always when I think I’ve heard my setup at its best, it improves further.

Idk man i gave them a listen from my "terrible noisy gaming desktop" via optical (best solution as is the consensus) vs usb (worst) with and without Jitterbug and i can't find any notable differences between the 3. I'm starting to think even using optical via usb is mostly placebo/peace of mind. With my old Sony TA i could hear slight differences even in the usb cables,not to mention mains filtering. Not at all with Dave.
Maybe your Utopias are more revealing than my Z1R's, though from what i've read differences shouldn't be cataclysmic. For me there's no point in revisiting this source nonsense without 20k speakers like some of the people pushing source components here have or until i get either some new closed back flag ships come around.
And even then i'm not convinced there will be much of a difference. It's easy to convince yourself of things, especially reading over and over what "improvements " you SHOULD be hearing.
Especially if you listen to whole albums at a time. I like to cut down tracks into small passages and a/b those.

 

[AndrewOld]

This is gonna make some of you furious, but I’m not the only one who thinks the Innuos Phoenix reclocker helps to improve usb dac performance.

https://audiobacon.net/2020/09/08/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker-review/amp/

I use the reclocker in between my server and mDAVE, and I definitely think it brings about very noticeable improvements

How can you reclock asynchronous USB? There is no clock embedded in the data, so there is nothing to reclock. The clock is in the receiver. The asynchronous protocol means that the sender adjusts the packet size to suit the receiver.

 

[adrianm]

How can you reclock asynchronous USB? There is no clock embedded in the data, so there is nothing to reclock. The clock is in the receiver. The asynchronous protocol means that the sender adjusts the packet size to suit the receiver.

Such things are conveniently overlooked in favor of audio companies marketing and a desire for continuous improvement.

 

[iamoneagain]

Idk man i gave them a listen from my "terrible noisy gaming desktop" via optical (best solution as is the consensus) vs usb (worst) with and without Jitterbug and i can't find any notable differences between the 3. I'm starting to think even using optical via usb is mostly placebo/peace of mind. With my old Sony TA i could hear slight differences even in the usb cables,not to mention mains filtering. Not at all with Dave.
Maybe your Utopias are more revealing than my Z1R's, though from what i've read differences shouldn't be cataclysmic. For me there's no point in revisiting this source nonsense without 20k speakers like some of the people pushing source components here have or until i get either some new closed back flag ships come around.
And even then i'm not convinced there will be much of a difference. It's easy to convince yourself of things, especially reading over and over what "improvements " you SHOULD be hearing.
Especially if you listen to whole albums at a time. I like to cut down tracks into small passages and a/b those.

Its possible that you’d need something like the Utopia’s to here the differences or be running thru mscaler first. I’ve heard differences between usb and optical on same source, differences between sources, and differences between optical cables. And in the past differences between usb cables. I agreed with Rob that expensive usb cables sounded worse than the stock. Brighter with less weight.

The Utopia’s the have such laser sharp soundstage positioning, it’s easy to hear the difference. Also, the bass is dead neutral so if that’s not done right it won’t have enough weight. That was the big issue I was having with the dirty usb from the Mac mini. But even the optical from it was a step down from the usb of the MacBook Pro.

My Stack Audio Link II should be here next Monday. I’ll try to test out usb features vs using the unit directly. Probably a quick test since I really want to just set it up and enjoy the music. The MacBook is already giving me trouble where when start playing and signal not locked and have stop and start. And at one point usb output wasn’t working and played thru internal speaker. I had to restart it. Not ideal.

 

[doraymon]

@Rob Watts come on, when is the new network bridge with upscaling function for DAVE coming???

 

[iamoneagain]

@Rob Watts come on, when is the new network bridge with upscaling function for DAVE coming???

I think Chord was trying to have us use the 2go / 2yu combo for streaming. Rob doesn’t work on these projects so that why I don’t look to Chord for a streaming solution.

Just looked and the 2yu hasn’t even been released yet. Says Oct 1st. And the cost for both is $1900. I guess once released people can compare to similar products in that price range.

 

[AndrewOld]

I think Chord was trying to have us use the 2go / 2yu combo for streaming. Rob doesn’t work on these projects so that why I don’t look to Chord for a streaming solution.

Just looked and the 2yu hasn’t even been released yet. Says Oct 1st. And the cost for both is $1900. I guess once released people can compare to similar products in that price range.

$1900 for a 2.4GHz only device on Oct 1st 2020? Wi-Fi has moved on a lot .. we are now in the era of Wi-Fi 6.

 

[Triode User]

How can you reclock asynchronous USB? There is no clock embedded in the data, so there is nothing to reclock. The clock is in the receiver. The asynchronous protocol means that the sender adjusts the packet size to suit the receiver.

Such things are conveniently overlooked in favor of audio companies marketing and a desire for continuous improvement.

Just on this, I asked Nuno at Innuos to explain the Phoenix and this is what he said to me,

"The clock that's relevant for the asynchronous USB Audio protocol (emphasis on USB Audio) is related to the clock of the audio signal (PCM). This means the server itself when transmitting the audio does not have to use the internal (crappy) clock on the motherboard on the PCM stream so the DAC can decode it properly.

The PhoenixUSB reclocks the USB transmission packets (note just USB not USB Audio). It is totally unrelated to audio - this is the clock that establishes the transmission of USB data packets and has nothing to do with the Asynchronous USB Audio protocol. One thing that gives it away is the fact the PhoenixUSB works with any USB device - you can connect a hard drive or a USB stick to it if you like and that would work. It does not touch the audio signal at all, for the PhoenixUSB they're all just packets being transmitted to a destination.

The difference that a PhoenixUSB is doing is simply not polluting the DAC with noise and provide a very well timed signal with very low phase noise. It enables the DAC to work at its best."

 

[iamoneagain]

$1900 for a 2.4GHz only device on Oct 1st 2020? Wi-Fi has moved on a lot .. we are now in the era of Wi-Fi 6.

The other issue is see a lot of complaints about the software on the 2go and the poly. Think the appeal is more how the attach directly to the Hugo 2 or Mogo. With the Dave, no reason to use unless really want to keep with Chord. But as said, Rob has nothing to do with these devices.

 

[midicun]

Well the M-scaler it's a big difference! But happy to see I am not the only one using the U1 Mini, on the paper it should provide a quality flow of bits to the DAVE, for sure less noisy than my PC!!
And the USB/OPT output option will give me many hours of entertainment with A/B testing...

I only added the MScaler couple of months back. So, even with the U1 Mini directly connected into the DAVE, it made a difference. I only use USB. I am curious to know your findings on USB vs OPT. By the way, it has 2 USB ports but only 1 is a USB output, the other is to connect a USB drive (storage for Music if needed).

 

[midicun]

Well the M-scaler it's a big difference! But happy to see I am not the only one using the U1 Mini, on the paper it should provide a quality flow of bits to the DAVE, for sure less noisy than my PC!!
And the USB/OPT output option will give me many hours of entertainment with A/B testing...

To be precise on my previous response, here is the link on ROON Community and the post I had found a few months back.


https://community.roonlabs.com/t/question-on-u1-and-u1-mini/96203/13
Only one USB output is active despite the presence of two USB ports.
The AES / BNC / RCA / toslink outputs are all active if there is no USB connection to a DAC. You may turn them off individually.
If a USB DAC is connected, all the other outputs are invalid or off.

 

[adrianm]

The Utopia’s the have such laser sharp soundstage positioning, it’s easy to hear the difference. Also, the bass is dead neutral so if that’s not done right it won’t have enough weight.

Haven't heard them yet, my Z1R have better imaging than the Stellias which i have a/b'd against, but they're still closed backs. And bass is thunderous out of pretty much anything, arguably too much of it. This is one of the things i loved about Dave, it made the bass a lot leaner,tighter and more controlled.
I might revisit these findings with the next pair of headphones but there's nothing on the horizon at the moment.

 

[iamoneagain]

Haven't heard them yet, my Z1R have better imaging than the Stellias which i have a/b'd against, but they're still closed backs. And bass is thunderous out of pretty much anything, arguably too much of it. This is one of the things i loved about Dave, it made the bass a lot leaner,tighter and more controlled.
I might revisit these findings with the next pair of headphones but there's nothing on the horizon at the moment.

It’s also possible on your sources, the differences are more subtle. I’m currently leaning in the direction you don’t need a great source, just not a crapty one for the Dave or mscaler. Rob tests with his laptop but I believe only when it’s running off battery. I’d test battery vs plugged in on my MacBook Pro if it weren’t for the fact the battery can’t hold a charge anymore and dies when unplugged.

At this point, my current setup sounds right. I’m truly not trying to improve the sound anymore. The new streamer is just to replace outdated laptop and have something stable. Over last few days I’ve been enjoying my music more than ever.