[Med Stude]

For me chord is the difference of being able to listen to music or not being able to listen to digital recordings. Is that worth thousands of dollars, in general it is difficult to say.

 

[Jawed]

I think there may be a misconception about what active digital speakers contain.

[...]

It is rare to actually see the digital PCM signals concerted straight into a compatible PWM 1-bit signal for the digital amplifier. In fact, I only know of some NAD products that do this and they’re not cheap.

The NAD products you refer to contain inferior versions of the Hypex digital amplifiers that are inside the Kii 3 speakers.

https://darko.audio/2014/09/nad-masters-series-m22-hypex-ncore-for-the-rest-of-us/

Either way, the point is that a lot of advantages of using 250,000 taps of M-Scaler for the 4fs upsampling to Toslink would probably be lost when fed to active digital speakers.

Is that damage worse than a pair of conventional speakers with all sorts of acoustic and electrical problems? I'm not pre-judging this, though it seems the odds are against Kii 3 based on two people's opinions in this thread.

If Rob's DX/power pulse array amps are happy driving 1 ohm speakers, then someone needs to start building modern Apogee Scintillas! No crossover, proper bass, etc...

But my planned dedicated listening room is too small...

Now playing: Iskra 1903 - Chapter One 1970-1972

 

[Jawed]

The DX output audio data is identical to the dual BNC output which is a mono transmission standard - all that happens is that volume control information is transmitted in the SPDIF user data, so the DX power amps will read that data and change the volume at a more appropriate point inside the DX power amp. This means that the full audio data is transmitted without any loss in SQ, but with the convenience of the H M scaler controlling the volume.

Does this mean that a single remote control for the Hugo M Scaler can also adjust volume on DAVE and Hugo 2. Does this remote control effectively replace the dedicated remote controls for DAVE and Hugo 2?

It would be really nice to have a single remote that does HMS input switching and option changes + volume control when used with DAVE/Hugo 2...

 

[rayl]

Does this mean that a single remote control for the Hugo M Scaler can also adjust volume on DAVE and Hugo 2. Does this remote control effectively replace the dedicated remote controls for DAVE and Hugo 2?

It would be really nice to have a single remote that does HMS input switching and option changes + volume control when used with DAVE/Hugo 2...

Suspect DAVE doesn't support the volume metadata... for that matter, it doens't even support left/right metadata but H2 does as I recall.

But with the auto-switcher, one doesn't really need the remote much for M-Scaler. I only ever touch the Blu2 remote to turn off the display/CD after a power interruption. Rest of the time, I only use the DAVE remote. (Hmm- maybe for video mode.)

 

[Jawed]

But with the auto-switcher, one doesn't really need the remote much for M-Scaler. I only ever touch the Blu2 remote to turn off the display/CD after a power interruption. Rest of the time, I only use the DAVE remote. (Hmm- maybe for video mode.)

HMS has another front panel button labelled "INPUT". I'm going to guess that the remote control is capable of selecting inputs

I'm hoping that the HMS remote control becomes a "system" remote control whether one is using DX amps or DAVE/Hugo 2/TT 2.

 

[SearchOfSub]

I get the Blu ll since it plays CD but what is the point of Hugo Mscaler in front of a Chord DAC? Isnt it double DAC? What are the benefits and difference from a traditional DAC?

 

[minibox]

I can’t begrudge a company for developing a superior product for lower cost. The consumers spoke, Chord heard and responded. I’m still a proud bluDave owner and I love spinning my old cd’s. I’d like to see chord give us some active speakers since that’s the future of 2 channel audio and imo they make the finest sounding digital front ends.

 

[SearchOfSub]

I just read some posts after I posted and few people mentioned it would be good device to have for active speakers. I agree and I think with the pricing this might be better than the Hugo TT2. Can anyone recommend any good active speakers to pair up?

 

[SearchOfSub]

I can’t begrudge a company for developing a superior product for lower cost. The consumers spoke, Chord heard and responded. I’m still a proud bluDave owner and I love spinning my old cd’s. I’d like to see chord give us some active speakers since that’s the future of 2 channel audio and imo they make the finest sounding digital front ends.

That would be nice. Rob Watts design active speakers + Chord Hugo Mscaler. I already see many people will be going down this path!

 

[SearchOfSub]

Well personally I am luckily only stuck with a by know very outdated and very difficult to sell second hand,original HUGO1 that has given me both joy and troubles, and a quite ok Qutest that can be connected to this new M-Scaler.
But I had hoped for something both much more portable and a lot cheaper than what has just materialized.
I wonder what is in that big box?
It is very costly to be at the Chord digital front line.
Cheers Christer

IMO original Hugo priced at 2K was pretty fair compared to all of the DACS out at the time hence people were calling it the "giant-killer!" But now I see Hugo2 price have gone up $500USD, the Hugo TT2 which I was planning to purchase this year have also gone up $1000USD from the first model. Why price increase when you are selling out? Atleast keep it around same price as the first version.
I agree when you say it's getting expensive with Chord gear. What happenned to giant killer? Gone from "Giant killer" to "expensive to have". This is bad branding and people start getting ideas for best brands!

 

[austinpop]

I was hoping to post this on the new Hugo M Scaler thread, but one does not exist yet. Feel free to move this once it's created.

I am so glad I had other plans that brought me to London this weekend, allowing me to attend CanJam, reconnect with my good friend @romaz , and meet head-fi'ers like @STR-1, @TheAttorney, and @jude .

It was also very nice to spend some time with, and get to know @Rob Watts. Since the lines at the HMS/TT2 stations were unrelenting, Rob was kind enough to set me up with his own personal units in a quiet space, so I could have a listen.

Please note that these are just first impressions, and subject to change after I have a chance to evaluate in my own home and system.

The Hugo TT2 easily drove my HD800 (SD mod) as loud as I could want them. Even with the SE output, that Rob says is the most transparent. Luckily I had a female XLR adapter that allowed me to also try the rear XLR balanced outputs, and there is a ton of power in this thing.

Since I didn't have a lot of time, I listened to the HMS/TT2 as a combo. I was very impressed. Not only was I hearing excellent SQ, it was without the need for my expensive Cavalli LAu in the picture. This is an intriguing value proposition, as the sale of my amp could mitigate the daunting cost of this combo.

What I heard was very clean, punchy, incisive, and balanced. There was no hint of harshness, and a wealth of micro- and macro-detail. There was a rightness to the sound that I very much want to explore further. Instruments like piano and female voices sounded natural and just "right." Bass was prodigious, which is not something I have been able to say with any component other than my Cavalli driving my HD800s.

However what blew my mind, and really is the highlight, is the MScaler. I am not putting down the TT2 at all, since it clearly contributes to the whole. Certainly, with more evaluation time, I'll have a better chance to characterize it relative to other DACs I've known and loved. Some of you may recall me saying how impressed I was with the Blu2 demo at RMAF last year. That was in a crowded demo room, listening for all of 5-10 minutes. Here, with a little more time, and full control of the music selection, I have to say I felt that same wow factor from Denver.

The HMS has a scaling button that cycles between pass-through, and upsampling to 192, 384, and 768. The upsampling to 192 and then 384 are each a nice jump in SQ. But I was amazed at how big a leap in performance occurred between 384 and 768.

I'll reserve more prose for when I can actually review this combo, but I will say if you're in the market and funds permit, this combo merits a careful listen.

Finally, it was great to end the show going out with Roy to a nice dinner and concert - the Mahler 8th at the BBC Proms at the Royal Albert Hall. I'm a glutton for punishment, so I actually went to another Proms concert the day before, the Beethoven 9th. I love the Proms!

 

[romaz]

I have a question. In a speaker system with analog preamp, do you think TT2/HMS equal or outperforms Blu2/DAVE?

I think this depends on how transparent your analog preamp is. If your preamp adds a lot of its own flavor (which is not necessarily a bad thing if you like what this flavor is), you may not notice as much of a gap, possibly not one big enough to care. If your preamp is very transparent (i.e. a passive preamp), I suspect BluDAVE wins by a fair margin and I would be willing to bet money on this. For driving speakers with a traditional speaker amp, my observations are the benefits of DAVE will far outweigh the benefits of TT2. Also, despite the improved isolation in HMS, it is not a night and day improvement against the M-scaler in Blu2. A million TAPs is still a million TAPs and the release of HMS does nothing to diminish everything that we love about our Blu2s.

While it's easy for those of us who own a Blu2 to lament this new reality that a new M-scaler with better isolation will soon become available, you'll have to ask yourself just how bothered you are by the RF noise in your system? Quite honestly, I'm pretty pleased with how my system is sounding in my large listening room where my BluDAVE resides and will continue to reside. While ferrites do make a difference, I belong to the camp that find they don't make a huge difference and so I am presently not using ferrites on my BNC cables. If this is an issue, well, at least ferrites are not expensive to implement.

 

[seeteeyou]

Maybe it depends on how each BNC cable is shielded? For obvious reasons, some of us might wanna throw me under the bus for pointing this out

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...reaming/?page=149&tab=comments#comment-723571

The Habst is extremely well shielded and has an extra ground lead.

I can't take credit for this as the idea was proposed by Rob Watts but it certainly improves sound considerably (much less glare), however, the Habst still sounds better.

 

[musickid]

Number of people without an mscaler=1000X

Number of people with a blu2=100X

Anticipated disgruntlement on release of mscaler=expected.

Potential profit from those owning chord dacs to which an mscaler will be added=huge.

Business is both cut throat and ruthless=true.

Blu2 is stunning=true.

Have customers been mislead=not true.

Do we seriously expect technological advancement to cease=nonsense.

 

[romaz]

Add me to the list of pissed off owners.

I live in the real world and understand the realities we're dealing with. There is always an early adoption tax, prices typically go down over time, and new products will often leap frog their predecessors. In any other domain and with any other purchase I can easily take the "buyer beware" stance. However, in a niche market like this where there is such an unusual level of communication between producer and consumer, it's hard not to feel like some of us were just screwed (miss led). If Blu2 was further along in it's life cycle and I hadn't just waited 4 months to receive mine, I would likely feel different. That said, I would have felt different and made a different decision when placing the order if I was working with more accurate information earlier in the year.

Business is business but it's easy to forget that with the personal interaction that takes place within this community. Lesson learned…

Now playing... Color me jaded

As a Blu2 owner, I can empathize with you. As an early adopter, I have had to pay this early adopter tax many times and it is never a good feeling. Fortunately, I have a 2nd listening room that is in desperate need of its own M-scaler and so at least my Blu2 will continue to have great purpose.

As for the obligations that a producer has to its consumers, you may wish to more closely examine Chord's unique situation. I am not trying to make excuses for them but trying to put myself in their shoes, here is how I see it:

1. As we know, Rob is on a path of his own making. There is no precedent for anything like M-scaler, DX amps, DAVINA, etc., anywhere in the market and while Rob has been talking about these products for some time now, out of 3 products, only 1 has made it to market thus far and it's not because Rob has been busy sunning in Saint-Tropez. On several occasions, I have asked Rob when this or that will finally be ready and his typical answer these days is "it will be ready when it's ready" because I don't think he knows. Rob has been very up front that he is in uncharted waters and so who really knows if his next release will be in 6 months or 6 years.

2. If you recall, when Blu2 was first announced by Chord at CES in Las Vegas in January of 2017, there was considerable hoopla and many of us eagerly fell in line expecting to receive our units "within 2 months" of the announcement. As you know, Chord encountered delays and many of us didn't receive our Blu2s for 6-8 months (it took 8 months for me to get mine). Not surprisingly, Chord took quite a bit of flack for this and so I'm sure they're leery of making premature announcements about the release timeline for any future products.

3. If Chord leaked info 3 months ago that a less expensive standalone M-scaler would be available at this time, I'm sure there will be customers who received their Blu2s 4 months ago that would cry foul just as you're doing. There will always be individuals who will find themselves having bought something at the wrong time. To be fair to Chord, what would you suggest is their obligation in this situation? If they deem they are ready to officially launch a product on a certain date and they invite the press to cover such an event, why would it make sense to prematurely leak this information? Now if your dealer promised you that a less expensive M-scaler would definitely not be released this year and this influenced your decision to purchase a Blu2, I believe that dealer should be obligated to purchase your Blu2 back.