[audio_1]

I received my Blu 2 a week ago after waiting about 9 weeks. I had the Dave on its own for this period. I completely concur with Rob Watts post that the Dave and Blu2 are on a different level to all other high end DACs. The dynamics, PRAT, depth, resolution, musicality, etc etc far exceed everything else available. Unfortunately it is very easy to loose these qualities in the rest of the play back chain. If you have never experienced them, you will not realise what’s missing.

I have always been able to appreciate PRAT, when one’s foot starts tapping and you get emotionally involved with the music. I never understood that correct transient timing was essential in recreating it and also how it could not be achieved with digital amps until reading Rob’s posts. Imho no other high end DAC does this.

I first heard it with the Dave and Blu2 at the 2017 High End Show in Munich. I have also heard it with the Dave on its own with some very fast power amplifiers. Unfortunately I have to upgrade my own amplifiers to get this at home.

The other incredible thing about the Dave is the fully transparent digital volume control. I generally listen at -40 or -50 dB and there is no loss of dynamics or resolution. This is unique imho. I have experience of digital and analog volume controls in other DACs and they are useless in comparison. My own pre-amp kills the Dave and Blu2 so it great that I no longer require it.

Rob Watts is undoubtedly a genius. I have learnt more in the last few months by reading Robs posts and experiencing his designs than in the past 35 years of being interested in Hi-Fi.

The Blu 2 M scaler with CD transport was perfect for me as up until this I always played CDs. I have just taken out a trial Qobuz subscription and will be upgrading to the Sublime + in January. I concur with AndrewOld on this. (I do not agree with waiting for a stand alone M scaler. Life is too short not to experience M scaled music now!)

I too am experimenting with ferrites and will be fitting Wurth 5 x 1 GHz and 5 x 2.5 GHz ferrites to each of the dual BNC cables. It is cheaper to purchase them in quantities of 10 from Farnell. Thanks to the pulse DAC design that is all that is required, not expensive digital cables.

To sum up Thanks Rob.

 

[adyc]

I listened again to the Blu/Dave, I don't think precise was not the right word, I think that the Blu/Dave combo was tuned to a higher pitch then the PS DS with Red Cloud, it was hard to listen to for just a few minutes. I don't know if I need more ferrites or a certain type of ferrites or even more ferrites? Maybe I need that ridiculously priced chord stand, I'm not sure? The PS DS with Red Cloud sounds better with the straight usb connection no ferrite band aid needed.

There is no right or wrong. Most important is that you found the right DAC for your taste. Care to sell your Blu2 to me?

 

[514077]

Move all your ferrites to the two Ultraviolet cables. Put all of them close to DAVE. The BNC cable inputs on DAVE aren't galvanically isolated so they need more ferrites than the USB input.

I've just given a friend a cheap ($1, literally) USB cable with 20 ferrites on it for his Hugo 2. He was so excited by the improvement he started talking about buying one for himself. "That's for you", I said.

Any particular Ferrites you might recommend?

 

[onlychild]

When I ordered mine four weeks ago I was told that Innuos expected to sell all 100 by the end of January.

When I ordered mine 2 weeks ago (also arriving in January), dealer told me there are only a few left now

 

[mslatr]

I apologize in advance for the dumb question, but is there a direction to the ferrites? I note there isn't one marked on the core itself and a google search seems to indicate there may be, but I don't believe what i have read so far is credible.

I have ordered 10 with 4 each to go on the BNC cables and 2 on my USB cable.

Thanks in advance.
Mike

 

[Triode User]

I apologize in advance for the dumb question, but is there a direction to the ferrites? I note there isn't one marked on the core itself and a google search seems to indicate there may be, but I don't believe what i have read so far is credible.

I have ordered 10 with 4 each to go on the BNC cables and 2 on my USB cable.

Thanks in advance.
Mike

There is no direction to the ferrites. However you may need more like double that quantity. The rule is to keep adding them until it stops getting better.

 

[Jawed]

Any particular Ferrites you might recommend?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/does-chord-dave-system-need-a-dcc.809287/#post-13799263

 

[hattrick15]

This was my experience when I first got my Blu II, although I would describe the differences as being slightly less extreme than you have described, but I know exactly what you mean. Now, though, my files actually sound better than the Blu CD, so you can get there but you have some work to do.

I believe, from my own experience, that the main problem is noise in the streaming environment which can come from a number of sources, but computers and network routers are major culprits. The CD is not exposed to this noise which is why it sounds better. The BluDave is very resolving and transparent and, whilst it sounds fabulous, it will highlight any issues that exist within your streaming ecosystem. One problem with this noise is that you are not aware that it is there until it is removed - it’s not like a hum or distortion, it’s just a subtle degradation of the sound. There is another thread comparing different servers which focuses in some great depth on all of this including various clocking solutions. It gets pretty complex, but it highlights the point that this is by no means a BluDave issue.

I posted about all this some time back and stated then that the CD was proving a very useful benchmark in helping to refine and improve my streaming setup. Different setups will require different approaches, so there isn’t a universal answer necessarily other than to focus on reducing noise. I run Roon for all my file and streaming playback and, for my system, I felt that removing the computer and the network from the equation was the way to go in terms of eradicating noise. I therefore got a Zenith SE acting as Roon Core playing directly into the Blu II USB input and experienced a significant increase in sound quality from cutting out the network. I found that USB direct from the SE sounded better than using Ethernet endpoints like the dCS NB and mRendu and the addition of a tX-USBUltra after the SE refined things to an even higher level to the point where I am now totally satisfied with my setup and files do now sound better than the CD. Again, I have posted about all this so I won’t regurgitate the details again.

This is not to say that you need an SE and tX-U, but you would do well to focus on where noise could be entering your system and work on eradicating it. If you want any more detailed information, PM me, but most of it is posted on here.

This is really helpful advice. Tonight I tried a few different setups and came to the following preliminary conclusions:
1) Removing my SOtM sMS-200ultra network player and instead running USB from my Roon Optimized Core Kit direct into the Iso REGEN yielded a sound that was very close (if not the same) to a CD played on the Blu2. My ROCK is still connected to the Internet via the switch.
2) Removing my SOtM sMS-200ultra network player and the Iso REGEN (Roon Core direct into Blu2) did not sound as good as the CD played on the Blu2

I'm going to do some more listening tomorrow on a greater variety of music to confirm what I'm hearing, but removing the network switch and the SOtM sMS-200ultra network player made a big difference.

I did find your earlier posts on the journey you've been on to get to the Zenith SE and the tX-USB Ultra.

If I'm hearing in my set-up now USB that sounds very close (if not the same) to CD, would you expect me to get even better sound with the Zenith SE and tX-U?

I've looked previously at the Zenith SE. Two questions:
1) I have close to 6TB of music on an external HD. Can the Zenith play music from an external HD or must you copy it to the Zenith HD? A 4TB Zenith HD is pretty expensive and I still couldn't get all of my music on it.
2) If you have listen to the Zenith Mk.II Std, can you describe the sound versus from the Zenith SE? It's quite a price increase between the Std. and the SE.

Thanks!

 

[hattrick15]

We happen to have one of the few US-based Innous dealers here in San Diego. Based on your experience and recommendation, I'm setting up a demo session and eager to hear what the Zenith SE can do. I appreciate being able to bootstrap off of the experience of you and others that are several months ahead of me on this journey. Thank you.

You're lucky to have a dealer so close to you. I'm curious as to the sound differences between the ZENith Mk.II Std and the ZENith SE Mk.II Std. If you get a chance to hear both, can you post the differences you heard. And whether you think the price difference is warranted. Thanks!

 

[hattrick15]

“Any thoughts on how I get the audio from my USB input to sound closer or the same as from a CD?”

Yes, buy an Innuos Zenith SE. I have one on order after hearing one and it was the only way I could get a ripped version to sound identical to a cd played in Blu2. Of course that means that it is possible so there will be other (cheaper) solutions but they may well involve more fiddling than just buying something such as the Zenith.

Did you happen to listen to ZENith Mk.II Std and compare it to the ZENith SE Mk.II Std?
If you get a chance to hear both, can you post the differences you heard? And whether you think the price difference is warranted. Thanks!

 

[Malcyg]

This is really helpful advice. Tonight I tried a few different setups and came to the following preliminary conclusions:
1) Removing my SOtM sMS-200ultra network player and instead running USB from my Roon Optimized Core Kit direct into the Iso REGEN yielded a sound that was very close (if not the same) to a CD played on the Blu2. My ROCK is still connected to the Internet via the switch.
2) Removing my SOtM sMS-200ultra network player and the Iso REGEN (Roon Core direct into Blu2) did not sound as good as the CD played on the Blu2

I'm going to do some more listening tomorrow on a greater variety of music to confirm what I'm hearing, but removing the network switch and the SOtM sMS-200ultra network player made a big difference.

I did find your earlier posts on the journey you've been on to get to the Zenith SE and the tX-USB Ultra.

If I'm hearing in my set-up now USB that sounds very close (if not the same) to CD, would you expect me to get even better sound with the Zenith SE and tX-U?

I've looked previously at the Zenith SE. Two questions:
1) I have close to 6TB of music on an external HD. Can the Zenith play music from an external HD or must you copy it to the Zenith HD? A 4TB Zenith HD is pretty expensive and I still couldn't get all of my music on it.
2) If you have listen to the Zenith Mk.II Std, can you describe the sound versus from the Zenith SE? It's quite a price increase between the Std. and the SE.

Thanks!

You are welcome, I’m glad you have found some improvement so quickly. It’s good when that happens!

Regarding your library, I certainly was able to access and playback files stored on my Melco NAS which I had connected to the SE second Ethernet port, but I’m not sure about via HD. I suspect that you should be able to do that, I’ll have a look later. Edit - looks like you can only incorporate files from a NAS: http://www.innuos.com/en/go/integrating-music-from-a-nas-shared-folder

Regarding the Zenith MK II vs the SE, I originally had a Mk II for trial before I discovered they were going to bring out the limited run SE. I had the Mk II in my system for a few weeks and definitely would have bought it had I not discovered the SE. The SE is better, but whether it is worth twice the price, only you can decide really and I would recommend finding a dealer who will allow you to listen to both, preferably in your system.

Edit: I missed your first question as to whether you can improve still further from where you are now. I would expect the the SE plus tX-U should give you another step forwards, but you would need to determine how big a step that was in your system and whether it is worth the financial outlay. If you are already matching the CD, then it should be sounding pretty good and maybe you should just be happy with that? Also, you should note that someone else who switched from using SE Ethernet output to SE USB output told me that he found the sound via USB output improved quite a bit after he had used it for a while, almost like that circuit improved as it bedded in. You may therefore find that your current setup may improve as you continue to use it the way that you now have it.

 

[STR-1]

I listened in on an a/b comparison between the standard Zenith and the Zenith SE that Innuos were hosting at an audio event I attended a couple of months ago. I can’t recall what tne amplification and speakers were (I’m a headphone-only guy using a Chord DAVE) but it was easy to hear the differences. The SE was deeper, a little darker and a fair bit cleaner than the standard model. I have ordered the SE, which I expect to be delivered sometime in January. I also expect to order the Blu Mk. 2 in tne New Year.

 

[Jawed]

This is really helpful advice. Tonight I tried a few different setups and came to the following preliminary conclusions:
1) Removing my SOtM sMS-200ultra network player and instead running USB from my Roon Optimized Core Kit direct into the Iso REGEN yielded a sound that was very close (if not the same) to a CD played on the Blu2. My ROCK is still connected to the Internet via the switch.

That's pretty damning for the SOtM.

It's also not looking good for the ISO Regen. If the Regen was working properly, you'd hear no difference whether or not you were using the SOtM.

2) Removing my SOtM sMS-200ultra network player and the Iso REGEN (Roon Core direct into Blu2) did not sound as good as the CD played on the Blu2

So at least the Regen is doing something... Clearly not enough, though.

I've seen people using two Regens, one after the other, with success. I certainly won't recommend it though.

USB spaghetti is doomed to fail because at every step there is some kind of processor and some kind of power supply. Both the processor and the power supply produce noise you don't want and neither entirely filters-out noise that's come from a previous step in the chain.

Now playing: Jenny Hval - How Gentle

 

[Malcyg]

That's pretty damning for the SOtM.

It's also not looking good for the ISO Regen. If the Regen was working properly, you'd hear no difference whether or not you were using the SOtM.


So at least the Regen is doing something... Clearly not enough, though.

I've seen people using two Regens, one after the other, with success. I certainly won't recommend it though.

USB spaghetti is doomed to fail because at every step there is some kind of processor and some kind of power supply. Both the processor and the power supply produce noise you don't want and neither entirely filters-out noise that's come from a previous step in the chain.

Now playing: Jenny Hval - How Gentle

Not sure I understand your comments about the ISO Regen here Jawed as the results that hattrick experienced are pretty much what I would have expected. I would definitely agree with your general spaghetti observations and would add the extra cabling required to your list of negatives, but a USB cleaner and improved clock at the USB end seem to be the exception.

 

[TheAttorney]

So, I thought I'd finished with messing about with ferrites, but various recent comments, about how a direct USB connection (with lots of ferrites) can equal or even improve upon a spaghetti system, have prompted me to do one more test:

0. Start point is W10 laptop via ethernet (with 26 ferrites) to mR v1.4 via TQ USB (with 22 ferrites) to IR via USPCB hard connector to DAVE.

1. I simply moved all 26 ferrites from my Supra ethernet cable onto a generic 2m USB cable and added that as direct USB connection laptop to DAVE.
- Result was an obvious drop in SQ, with a murkier sound with smeared images that withdrew into the mix. It wasn't unpleasant, just not as good as before.
2. I then swapped the 26 ferrite generic USB cable for my 22 ferrite TQ USB cable (this 1m length can't take more than 22). Still a direct USB connection, but with an expensive cable.
- Result was quite close to (1). I felt there were some differences, but nothing night-and-day, so I quickly moved on to...
3. I then brought back my IR and mR, almost back to start point (0), but the Supra has no ferrites
- Result was an improvement in SQ: clearer, more dynamic, with images popping out from a more 3D soundstage - all the usual things. But maybe with a touch of brightness coming through as well.
4. I put the 26 ferrites back on the Supra, so exactly back to (0) now
- Resulting in even more clarity etc and also reduced brightness - i.e. right back to the high quality experience I had at the start.
- Even with all these ferrites in place, I can still tell the difference when changing my Fidelizer Pro and Process Lasso parameters, none of which are directly related to the signal path. So something else is going on that the ferrites are not resolving.

This was only a quick test to double check if I was heading in the right direction, but the conclusions I draw from it are that ferrites alone definitely do not resolve all the digital issues in my system. I wish they could, but they don't.
But they certainly considerably help in improving my system. They are still the best VFM upgrade of all time.

So I'll be keeping my mR and IR in place whilist I plan for the server upgrade in the new year. I'm still hoping that a Zenith/Antipodes type of server can get me to the point of a direct connection being best and then my quest is done.