[Arpiben]

Thanks @marcmccalmont

It is very long since I last played with EMC and I was curious how you were running the 'shunt cables': As per my understanding

• in parallel for the analog balanced connected to XLR Pin ? ( blue cable)
• shunt cable = added outer shield for digital interconnects

If I am not bothering what are the references for:

• balanced coaxial
• Belden RG58 type ?

My purpose was to look at it at a theoritical point of view with the little remaining knowledge I have.

Nota: Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) is the ability of an electrical or electronic device or system to function satisfactorily in its intended electromagnetic environment (Immunity) without introducing intolerable electromagnetic interference (EMI) to anything in that environment (Emission)

 

[marcmccalmont]

Thanks @marcmccalmont

It is very long since I last played with EMC and I was curious how you were running the 'shunt cables': As per my understanding

• in parallel for the analog balanced connected to XLR Pin ? ( blue cable)
• shunt cable = added outer shield for digital interconnects

If I am not bothering what are the references for:

• balanced coaxial
• Belden RG58 type ?

My purpose was to look at it at a theoritical point of view with the little remaining knowledge I have.

Nota: Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) is the ability of an electrical or electronic device or system to function satisfactorily in its intended electromagnetic environment (Immunity) without introducing intolerable electromagnetic interference (EMI) to anything in that environment (Emission)

Balanced cable has both coax shields grounded at pin 1 on each end. The shunt is from pin 1 to pin 1 parallel to the coax
I reference the Clearer Audio Silverline Optimus 75 ohm digital cable which to date was the best 75 ohm cable I've had in my system until today!
The balanced cable was made by my Bell Labs friend he has the raw coax made for him

 

[Arpiben]

Balanced cable has both coax shields grounded at pin 1 on each end. The shunt is from pin 1 to pin 1 parallel to the coax
I reference the Clearer Audio Silverline Optimus 75 ohm digital cable which to date was the best 75 ohm cable I've had in my system until today!
The balanced cable was made by my Bell Labs friend he has the raw coax made for him

Unfortunately with my Bell Labs friends we don't deal with Audio frequencies but much higher ones (up to 175 GHz).

Well the shunt seems to act as a current loop with shield (return path):

• The return current will usually take the path of least impedance
• At low frequencies, this path will depend on the resistance characteristic of the structure.
• At high frequencies the impedance characteristics are dominated by inductances.
• At very high frequencies, also stray capacitances may play a role.
• Mother Nature sets up the return path in order to obtain the lowest possible impedance for the pair.

I am adding a few generalities hereunder. For sure it will not tell if one will improve or not one's listenning experience,

In principle a coaxial cable has to be connected at both ends to ground/chassis:

Frankly speaking i did not understand the JSS's solution with shield + shunt not connected to ground/chassis.

In terms of EM fields the dominant propagation mode is TEM.
It means that the physical Transmission Line (cable) can be modeled by an equivalent
Electrical circuit.
A typical field distribution at a certain instant of time for the crosssection of two interconnects (two-wire and co-axial cable):

The electromagnetic environment is composed of both radiated and
conducted energy. EMC, therefore, has two aspects, emission, and susceptibility. Susceptibility is
the capability of a device or circuit to respond to unwanted electromagnetic energy (i.e., noise). The
opposite of susceptibility is radiation. The immunity level of a circuit or device is the
electromagnetic environment in which the equipment can operate satisfactorily, without
degradation, and with a defined margin of safety. One difficulty in determining immunity (or
susceptibility) levels is defining what constitutes performance degradation. Emission pertains to the
interference-causing potential of a product. The purpose of controlling emissions is to limit the
electromagnetic energy emitted and thereby to control the electromagnetic environment in which
other products must operate. The three aspects, which forms the basic framework of EMC design is
the generation, transmission, and reception of electromagnetic energy.
Whether the source or receptor is intended or unintended depends on the type of the coupling path
and the source or receiver.

The transfer of electromagnetic energy can be divided into four subgroups, radiated emissions,
radiated susceptibility, conducted emissions and conducted susceptibility. These four aspects are
shown in Figure hereunder. An electronic system normally consists of one or more subsystems that
communicate each other via cables. These cables have the potential in emitting or picking up the
electromagnetic energy. Longer the length of the cable, the more efficient it is in picking up or
emitting the electromagnetic radiations. The factor that produces intended or unintended radiation is
the currents on the cables or traces. Electromagnetic emission or susceptibility to emission not only
occurs by radiation through the air, but also interference signals passes between the subsystems
directly via conduction.

 

[musickid]

Is this getting out of hand??

 

[marcmccalmont]

Since my Focal Utopias have a nice high quality shielded cable I did the Swenson shunt wire mod to them. Twice this year I’ve had Holy S..t Batman moments first when I put 16 Fair Rite 61 ferrites on the cables between Blu2 and Dave the second installing this Swenson mod

 

[Deftone]

I have placed an order for the Mscaler looking forward to a ferrite free household.

And im sure there will be many people that will be very happy for the absence of ferrite talk in this thread but then again come autumn when M-scaler launches i have a feeling this thread will be a lot quieter.

 

[Christer]

Not really on topic for the thread as such,but I am getting VERY TIRED of having to erase not wanted email notifications in my mailbox every time someone posts anything on this thread.
I have unticked the email notifications box repeatedly, but still have to spend time daily to weed out this thread's posts from my personal inbox!!!

 

[Triode User]

And im sure there will be many people that will be very happy for the absence of ferrite talk in this thread but then again come autumn when M-scaler launches i have a feeling this thread will be a lot quieter.

We Blu2 owners we still be here and we will still be happily using ferrited cables (and indeed talking about them for that is the way to make our Blu2s sing just as sweetly as the new MScaler).

 

[STR-1]

And im sure there will be many people that will be very happy for the absence of ferrite talk in this thread but then again come autumn when M-scaler launches i have a feeling this thread will be a lot quieter.

Don’t write off the humble ferrite just yet. The Blu2/DAVE interconnects were not the only thing seen to benefit from them and there might still be some benefit to be had with the M scaler. Rob Watts admits to some surprise at finding that the M scaler sounded slightly worse with ferrites added to the bnc cables and said he will do some more testing when he returns from holiday. Any remaining benefit would certainly be much less than with Blu2. But even at the threshold of perception, that would still be enough for many to press their ferrites back into service.

 

[leatherneck]

Are you playing the Dave and Blu2 through the AAvik integrated amp? If so you are missing many of the benefits of the Blu2 especially the timing and transients improvements. The AAvik integrated amps are class D amplifiers. I have heard them a number of times. They are very good but don't time as class D amps don't switch fast enough. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-500#post-13239932

The most realistic Hi-Fi reproduction that I have ever heard was on an AAvik, Raidho, Ansuz D system. But unfortunately it didn't time. Thanks to Rob Watts I now know the reason why.

Now that I’ve put some time in with the Blu2 and know what it sounds like with my Aavik U-300, could you tell me what I’m missing with the Class D amp? My dealer is demoing the Blu.2/Dave as the front end to a system that has Aavik class A mono blocks driving Raidho D5.1’s. I want to ask him to compare it to a system using the U-300. I need to tell him what to expect.

The mono blocks plus Aavik Preamp cost three times what my U-300 cost,but everything upstream of the amps is the same as mine. Of course his Raidho 5.1’s are in another league compared to myXT-2’s.

 

[jrfmd]

ODE to ROB WATTS

unfortunately I'm not a poet
But I believe that the dave/Blu2 is a work of art
The artist is Rob Watts
and I cant tell him what a wonderful thing he has created
I'm sure that, in the future, others may copy and surpass his creations but that wont diminish the magnitude of his present achievements
so, on behalf of all who enjoy his artistry at home day after day
thank you

Jeff

 

[audio_1]

Now that I’ve put some time in with the Blu2 and know what it sounds like with my Aavik U-300, could you tell me what I’m missing with the Class D amp? My dealer is demoing the Blu.2/Dave as the front end to a system that has Aavik class A mono blocks driving Raidho D5.1’s. I want to ask him to compare it to a system using the U-300. I need to tell him what to expect.

The mono blocks plus Aavik Preamp cost three times what my U-300 cost,but everything upstream of the amps is the same as mine. Of course his Raidho 5.1’s are in another league compared to myXT-2’s.

I have been interested in Hi-Fi for over 35 years but have only heard a few systems that really time correctly. Timing and emotional involvement with the music for me means does your foot automatically tap with the music, or do you want to start conducting an orchestra. I mainly listen to mainstream pop music. Some of the recordings are terrible, bright, compressed and un-listenable on some systems. If the system times they can sound brilliant. You can’t stop listening to the music.

Even my Chord Mojo and Shure SE846 headphones time. Many high end systems don’t. Transients are smoothed over and the music sounds slow and ponderous.

A system that times properly and is dynamic can also be enjoyed at low volume levels.

Class D amplifiers don’t switch fast enough to reproduce the transients correctly. Hence the system then sounds slow and blurred. Many other factors also affect timing. Slow cables with phase shift or loudspeakers with a poor impulse response. Many analog amplifiers also don’t time. If they have high impedance power supplies or multiple output devices with high capacitance etc. Single ended amplifiers are also better as they are generally more transparent than balanced designs as they have a simpler circuit layout. All Chord DACs are single ended.

Your system should time. Ansuz cables and Raidho speakers are excellent. The Dave on its own times well, but with the Blu 2 is world class.

I purchased the Chord Dave and Blu2 after hearing them in the Chord room at the High end show in Munich in 2016. I played my own CDs and was amazed by the speed and the pace of the music. I couldn’t stop listening. It was absolutely fantastic. The amplifiers used here were Chord SPM 6000 MK. II mono blocks.

The Chord room at this year’s Munich high end show had a Dave, Blu2, Etude power amplifiers and Raidho D3 speakers. It had very expensive cables with large compensation networks. This system sounded terrible compared to the 2017 system. It didn’t time, there was no involvement with the music. I believe that this was due to the cables. As Raidho speakers and Chord amplification are very fast.

I have also heard the Dave sound brilliant, musical and time correctly with Audionet Heisenberg amplifiers and Focal Grande Utopia speakers.

Rob watts has talked much about timing and transients. Search head-fi for his posts.

“Timing is important, because all other DAC's do a poor job of reconstruction, and have big timing errors for transients - and transients are used by the brain to create the perception of pitch (particularly bass), timbre, soundstage and of course tempo and the starting and stopping of notes.”

 

[leatherneck]

I have been interested in Hi-Fi for over 35 years but have only heard a few systems that really time correctly. Timing and emotional involvement with the music for me means does your foot automatically tap with the music, or do you want to start conducting an orchestra. I mainly listen to mainstream pop music. Some of the recordings are terrible, bright, compressed and un-listenable on some systems. If the system times they can sound brilliant. You can’t stop listening to the music.

Even my Chord Mojo and Shure SE846 headphones time. Many high end systems don’t. Transients are smoothed over and the music sounds slow and ponderous.

A system that times properly and is dynamic can also be enjoyed at low volume levels.

Class D amplifiers don’t switch fast enough to reproduce the transients correctly. Hence the system then sounds slow and blurred. Many other factors also affect timing. Slow cables with phase shift or loudspeakers with a poor impulse response. Many analog amplifiers also don’t time. If they have high impedance power supplies or multiple output devices with high capacitance etc. Single ended amplifiers are also better as they are generally more transparent than balanced designs as they have a simpler circuit layout. All Chord DACs are single ended.

Your system should time. Ansuz cables and Raidho speakers are excellent. The Dave on its own times well, but with the Blu 2 is world class.

I purchased the Chord Dave and Blu2 after hearing them in the Chord room at the High end show in Munich in 2016. I played my own CDs and was amazed by the speed and the pace of the music. I couldn’t stop listening. It was absolutely fantastic. The amplifiers used here were Chord SPM 6000 MK. II mono blocks.

The Chord room at this year’s Munich high end show had a Dave, Blu2, Etude power amplifiers and Raidho D3 speakers. It had very expensive cables with large compensation networks. This system sounded terrible compared to the 2017 system. It didn’t time, there was no involvement with the music. I believe that this was due to the cables. As Raidho speakers and Chord amplification are very fast.

I have also heard the Dave sound brilliant, musical and time correctly with Audionet Heisenberg amplifiers and Focal Grande Utopia speakers.

Rob watts has talked much about timing and transients. Search head-fi for his posts.

“Timing is important, because all other DAC's do a poor job of reconstruction, and have big timing errors for transients - and transients are used by the brain to create the perception of pitch (particularly bass), timbre, soundstage and of course tempo and the starting and stopping of notes.”

You are talking about PRAT (Pace, Rhythm and Timing). That's what Naim is famous for. I owned a lot of Naim kit. In fact I spent a fortune trying new power supplies, components, cables, etc. and was never satisfied. A friend of mine told me to try the LFD Integrated Amp designed and hand built by Dr. Richard Bews in England. I bought one and before the week was out I had my Naim 250 DR amp for sale on Audiogon. I should have stuck with it but got involved with the Danes and went whole hog into Raidho, Ansuz, Aavik.

I'm really into headphone listening (LCD-4's and Sennheiser HD-800 S). I had my Aavik modded to add a Line Out to drive a Bryston headphone amp. Unfortunately, it was implemented as a Preamp out and (unlike the new U-150) you cannot mute the output without muting the Line Out.That's why I bought a Chord Hugo TT and later sold it and bought a Dave. That solved my headphone problem.

As for Class D, I've always felt the same as everyone, Class D is for the cheap stuff from Best Buy. However, my dealer has never set me wrong and he got me into the Danish stuff including the U-300. It's the best amp I've ever owned and I've owned a lot of them. Having owned a lot of Naim kit it's apparent that PRaT wasn't something I was willing to sacrifice other facets of music for.

If you want enough power to drive big Magnapans you need 300 watts and you are not going to get it in a package as small as the U-300 unless you think outside the box and use something like Class D.

BTW, wherever you hear the U-300 it's going to be in a system wired with Ansuz DTC cables. The things inline are active Tesla devices that are there to handle noise. Ansuz doesn't filter it, they monitor the leading edge of wave forms and somehow pick out noise. That's changed in frequency to outside the audio band.

I have DTC digital cables between the Dave and the Blu2. The DTC USB cable I have is between an Aurender N10 streamer and the Blu2. I have no ferrites and I don't think I need them with the DTC cables.

Anyway, now I know what you are after. Try to audition some Naim kit with something like Harbeth speakers. You might find what you are looking for.

P.S. you cannot lump all Class D amps together. The U-300 isn't like the cheap stuff from Best Buy. People who plunk down $30K aren't going to spend it on something with inherent problems.

 

[rgs9200m]

With my DAVE (alone, no Blu2 or anything), I use EQ in Jriver to tamp down the upper mids/highs to avoid digital glare.

I mainly use a Utopia w/stock cable and now a Lazuli Ref cable. But I use other headphones too.

Did anyone else hear digital glare with DAVE alone and find that the Blu2 helps with this?

I mainly listen to pop music like classic rock and Rock and Roll era stuff, so this becomes an issue with this content.
Thanks.

(I have read much about Blu2/Mscaler and seen the fatigue-factor and analog-sonic-character of M-scaling here, but I just wanted to ask this directly. Thanks again.)

 

[Silvertone4]

Try setting the HF Filter (high frequency) to ON on the Dave. There was a slight harshness/brightness on the treble and highs that went away on my reference two-channel rig. Based on old feedback from Rob with BLU2 you can set the filter back to ON, I believe he made some changes on the digital filters.

Cheers