[Triode User]

Andrew, I admire your efforts to supply entertainment.

For other Head-Fi members I have driven to the other side of the country to visit them and to take a pair of cables to try in their Blu2 so they could hear for themselves how the cables perform. Oh, but I was forgetting that your cynical attitude also extends to the Blu2 itself which you have derided adnauseam on here and that you have no intention of ever getting a Blu2.

That is a pity because I would have been perfectly happy to demonstrate to you what happens when a pair of my cable are used between Blu2 and Dave.

 

[AndrewOld]

Andrew, I admire your efforts to supply entertainment.

For other Head-Fi members I have driven to the other side of the country to visit them and to take a pair of cables to try in their Blu2 so they could hear for themselves how the cables perform. Oh, but I was forgetting that your cynical attitude also extends to the Blu2 itself which you have derided adnauseam on here and that you have no intention of ever getting a Blu2.

That is a pity because I would have been perfectly happy to demonstrate to you what happens when a pair of my cable are used between Blu2 and Dave.

I most certainly have never derided the M Scaler, I intend to get one at the earliest opportunity. I get extraordinary pleasure from my DAVE and express that here and elsewhere. I have great respect for Rob, not in the least because of his candour and his readiness to share technical and theoretical insights into his products. I certainly did pour scorn, and was disappointed with, the way an M Scaler was packaged with a redundant cd mechanism in the form of the Blu2. To be more accurate I poured scorn on the idea expressed by you and others that dropping the cd mech from the Blu2 would barely affect the cost. I was not alone in wanting a stand alone M Scaler, or in expecting it to cost less than a Blu2. It might not be long before we find out who was right.

My questions about your product stand. Rob Watts frequently posts relevant measurements, explains in great detail the technical issues that underlie his design decisions, and tells us what test gear he uses - many tens of thousands worth iirc. Anyone can see that a Blu2 or a DAVE has hundreds of components, expensive casework, and many more hundreds of soldered joints, which will require expensive surface mount pick and place machines, soldering, qc, hand assembly and all sorts. Not cheap. Your product has a handful of components and (if I am not mistaken) eight soldered joints which are done by hand with equipment that is unlikely to cost more than small hundreds of dollars. UPS will deliver anywhere on the planet for a few tens of dollars. So how does one pair or 1m. cables cost £1650?

It would be great if you could share some of the technical reasons behind the cables just as Rob does, and it would be great if you could share some measurements that show their effect on RF. You are making the claim that they reduce RF are you not? Surely you can back up that claim?

 

[Triode User]

Andrew, the proof is in the pudding as they say and if my customers did not think it was worthwhile buying the cables then they would not do it. You have not heard the cables but if you get a Blu2 please let me know I will make sure you have the opportunity to hear them. I'm sorry but I have had similar discourses with you before and I tire of them so I'm out of this discussion if you don't mind.

 

[Sonic77]

I agree with AndrewOld, measurements.

 

[Crgreen]

I think this IS the right way to go. There are certainly fast enough fibre optic link standards available today and they are used to provide up to 10Gbit networking etc.

For USB, Dave is already pretty good when it comes to its galvanic isolation. The effects of USB cable choice (and ferrites) has a fairly minimal impact. Of course the isolation is not perfect and the effect is proportional to the noise coming from the laptop or streamer.

However with Blu 2 the galvanic isolation of the BNC outputs doesn't seem to clear up enough of the RF and it seems to be worse when using the Blu 2 USB input which I never understood because without disconnecting the USB cable, the CD sounds better. Fortunately there are ferrite based solutions for this but I can't help but think part of the reason this is so noticeable relates to the rush to get USB into Blu2 which was a late breaking addition.

How likely is it that Chord will introduce a new Dave and m-scaler with such an optical interface? I suspect it would be many years hence, if at all, and that when the stand-alone m-scaler is released, it will suffer from the same issues as the m-scaler in the Blu2. It would seem that the downside of > million taps is that such processing generates a prodigious amount of noise and that may, ultimately, be the real source of the problem. As I understand it, it’s one of the reasons why the m-scaler cannot currently be incorporated in the same unit as a DAC, even with an powerful external power supply.

 

[jonstatt]

It would be great if you could share some of the technical reasons behind the cables just as Rob does, and it would be great if you could share some measurements that show their effect on RF. You are making the claim that they reduce RF are you not? Surely you can back up that claim?

Do you know of any cable manufacturer that does provide those details? The Clearer Audio BNC cables mentioned on here earlier in this thread are near enough the same price for a 1m pair. It is very hard to evaluate somethings worth. When it comes to the Blu2 if you just added the cost of the raw components it would probably be no more than about 700-800 pounds yet the price of a Blu2 is 10x that. Should Rob submit his research and work timesheets so we can evaluate if Chord are taking the p*ss or not?

I am a cable sceptic. I particularly despair for descriptions of digital interconnects with commentary such as "deeper bass, better soundstage". I won't name a boutique brand publicly here as it will create a debate I don't wish to entertain, but a highly praised brand of USB cable when stripped down was found to contain bog standard 50pence per meter twisted pair. The Blu2-Dave has a specific problem which you can hear. I have tried several cables and Nick's and only Nick's so far has eliminated the RF artifacts I can hear. No measurements necessary as I can so easily use my ears.

 

[xxx1313]

I also WAS a cable sceptic. But even Dave ALONE taught me how important good cables (as well as ferrites) are. I am still surprised, from time to time, by what Dave is capable of in the right environment. Excellent cables should be even more important with the addition of Blu2.

 

[AndrewOld]

I also WAS a cable sceptic. But even Dave ALONE taught me how important good cables (as well as ferrites) are. I am still surprised, from time to time, by what Dave is capable of in the right environment. Excellent cables should be even more important with the addition of Blu2.

I am not questioning the claim that cables might make a difference. I am questioning the value of a pair of cables that cost £1650. A BNC connector takes a few minutes to fit, a few more minutes would take care of the ferrites, and few more the heat shrink. You’d be hard pushed to make it take an hour. If you asked a worker in the Chord factory to make a pair of these an hour it would be the cushiest job in the factory. If they could get £1650 for an hours work, John Franks himself would take the job, except that Rob would probably do it better.

And Rob would publish measurements showing the effect of the cable on the RF getting into the DAVE,

 

[rayl]

I am not questioning the claim that cables might make a difference. I am questioning the value of a pair of cables that cost £1650. A BNC connector takes a few minutes to fit, a few more minutes would take care of the ferrites, and few more the heat shrink. You’d be hard pushed to make it take an hour. If you asked a worker in the Chord factory to make a pair of these an hour it would be the cushiest job in the factory. If they could get £1650 for an hours work, John Franks himself would take the job, except that Rob would probably do it better.

And Rob would publish measurements showing the effect of the cable on the RF getting into the DAVE,

There's even a buzzword for this phenomenon: Value-based pricing!

 

[Jiffi32]

I am not questioning the claim that cables might make a difference. I am questioning the value of a pair of cables that cost £1650. A BNC connector takes a few minutes to fit, a few more minutes would take care of the ferrites, and few more the heat shrink. You’d be hard pushed to make it take an hour. If you asked a worker in the Chord factory to make a pair of these an hour it would be the cushiest job in the factory. If they could get £1650 for an hours work, John Franks himself would take the job, except that Rob would probably do it better.

If you are so proficient in making cables i believe you should offer your servies to Nick, then he could catch up on the back log of orders in an afternoon with your help.

Or better still offer your own cables for sale at what you beleive to be a fair price and make enough profit to buy a blu2 before Christmas.

Retail price is based on what the consumer is happy to pay, not BOM (apple products are a good case in point)

 

[Triode User]

I am not questioning the claim that cables might make a difference. I am questioning the value of a pair of cables that cost £1650. A BNC connector takes a few minutes to fit, a few more minutes would take care of the ferrites, and few more the heat shrink. You’d be hard pushed to make it take an hour. If you asked a worker in the Chord factory to make a pair of these an hour it would be the cushiest job in the factory. If they could get £1650 for an hours work, John Franks himself would take the job, except that Rob would probably do it better.

And Rob would publish measurements showing the effect of the cable on the RF getting into the DAVE,

I said I wasn't going to respond any more to your posts because in a way it only encourages you but as you have mentioned the Chord cables why don't you ask them the same questions about their Sarum T digital cables costing from £4200 per pair. Presumably you could knock them up yourself for fifty quid. Whilst you are at it why not ask them to publish their test results. (Oh and I think you are mixing up The Chord Company and Chord Electronics which are two entirely separate companies.) Or why not direct your attentions against the Chord Signature digital cables costing £750 each ie £1,500 a pair and which were brought to demo against my cables by a potential customer who took only a few minutes to decide to place an order for my WAVE cables.

Edit, sorry I forgot to mention the ChordMusic digital cables from £7,000 per pair. Come on, get your emails off to them and give them a piece of your mind!

(And for the avoidance of doubt least anyone thinks I am doing down Chord cables, I used to have them and I think they make really excellent cables.)

With a bit of luck the mods will pull this whole tiresome tirade from you before it descends any further.

 

[AndrewOld]

I said I wasn't going to respond any more to your posts because in a way it only encourages you but as you have mentioned the Chord cables why don't you ask them the same questions about their Sarum T digital cables costing from £4200 per pair. Presumably you could knock them up yourself for fifty quid. Whilst you are at it why not ask them to publish their test results. (Oh and I think you are mixing up The Chord Company and Chord Electronics which are two entirely separate companies.) Or why not direct your attentions against the Chord Signature digital cables costing £750 each ie £1,500 a pair and which were brought to demo against my cables by a potential customer who took only a few minutes to decide to place an order for my WAVE cables.

Edit, sorry I forgot to mention the ChordMusic digital cables from £7,000 per pair. Come on, get your emails off to them and give them a piece of your mind!

(And for the avoidance of doubt least anyone thinks I am doing down Chord cables, I used to have them and I think they make really excellent cables.)

With a bit of luck the mods will pull this whole tiresome tirade from you before it descends any further.

The “Chord” in my post quite obviously referred to Chord Elecronics, I think that is obvious not least by the way it also refers to John Franks and Rob Watts.

I would have no objection if the moderators moved your and my posts to a separate trade thread featuring your product. This thread is about the Blu2, and Rob has set a high standard of nearly always answering technical queries openly. You refused to, then changed your mind and answered by pivoting the question onto a competing manufacturer. But I was asking you about your cables. Why are they £1650 and what do they do? I can’t see what is unreasonable about asking a manufacturer to justify the price that is charged for a product, or if he can share any measurements about it’s effectiveness.

 

[Clive101]

Cables don't get me started ....!

I am amazed how much I have paid for cables ( I must be insane ) and yes all the prices seem inflated when compared to hardware ...... but try before you buy or make sure you know the return policy ie with full refund if not satisfied, make your own mind up depending on SQ and cost, personal choice comes into play.

One thing I will say, Chord Sarum T, they do seem to suck out RF and if Wave cables are as good as people say ( YMMV ? ) it is certain I will be auditioning them when the Mscaler finally gets released.

My brief time with Blu2 with my Dave I was sold on Sarum T.

One more thing, do not listen to the Chord Music, it will cost you...!

Try a Chord Music USB cable with Dave, RF gone...! Again YMMV.

 

[Triode User]

But I was asking you about your cables. Why are they £1650 and what do they do? I can’t see what is unreasonable

Quite simply because you have no intention of buying them but rather appear to want to make mischief. If I was to quote technical aspects then I can only anticipate a response attempting to belittle what I say. I am sorry but I am not going to play that game with you.

 

[ZappaMan]

Do you know of any cable manufacturer that does provide those details? The Clearer Audio BNC cables mentioned on here earlier in this thread are near enough the same price for a 1m pair. It is very hard to evaluate somethings worth. When it comes to the Blu2 if you just added the cost of the raw components it would probably be no more than about 700-800 pounds yet the price of a Blu2 is 10x that. Should Rob submit his research and work timesheets so we can evaluate if Chord are taking the p*ss or not?

I am a cable sceptic. I particularly despair for descriptions of digital interconnects with commentary such as "deeper bass, better soundstage". I won't name a boutique brand publicly here as it will create a debate I don't wish to entertain, but a highly praised brand of USB cable when stripped down was found to contain bog standard 50pence per meter twisted pair. The Blu2-Dave has a specific problem which you can hear. I have tried several cables and Nick's and only Nick's so far has eliminated the RF artifacts I can hear. No measurements necessary as I can so easily use my ears.

Please do name the cable manufacturer