[Malcyg]

I think you should pitch this idea to Rob. Sounds promising. All RF noise problems we face could be fixed by sully using this fiber optic cable. Now, what else we should use, I'm not sure, but it seems like it would become a lot cheaper in the end without having a 10-box solution to fix the noise problem.

I think you are missing the point. The boxes are not fixing a BluDave problem, they are fixing a network and file delivery problem. We are using the Blu CD as a benchmark precisely because it is not subject to that problem.

Nonetheless, I suspect that Rob will be delighted to learn how easy it all is - I just can’t believe he didn’t spot this 20 years ago.

 

[flyte3333]

We are using the Blu CD as a benchmark precisely because it is not subject to that problem.

But here you are assuming that nobody is using Blu/2 purely as an M-Scaler without using the CD transport, in order to get 1M taps.

There are users that want to get to 1M taps and have no interest in the physical CD transport itself, i.e. they use a myriad of other sources/transports/streamers.

 

[Malcyg]

But here you are assuming that nobody is using Blu/2 purely as an M-Scaler without using the CD transport, in order to get 1M taps.

There are users that want to get to 1M taps and have no interest in the physical CD transport itself, i.e. they use a myriad of other sources/transports/streamers.

Errr, that’s exactly what I do. But the CD sounded better. And I wanted my files to sound better - hence the CD benchmark and the work to upgrade the file delivery system.

 

[flyte3333]

the work to upgrade the file delivery system.

Ah yes, but this is solved with a high speed fiber link between M-Scaler and DAC (in my dreams).

Therefore there is no further work needed by the end user, to upgrade the file delivery system. And no fancy cables required.

Perfect, complete optical isolation and any jitter is eliminated by the DAC (as we all know well).

Just an M-Scaler, a DAC and a fiber link between the 2-boxes. Nothing else to do or add.

 

[Malcyg]

Ah yes, but this is solved with a high speed fiber link between M-Scaler and DAC (in my dreams).

Therefore there is no further work needed by the end user, to upgrade the file delivery system. And no fancy cables required.

Perfect, complete optical isolation and any jitter is eliminated by the DAC (as we all know well).

Ok. Well What has Rob been doing for the last 25 years? I’m disappointed with him in that case.

The CD is a complete red herring in this context anyway.

 

[flyte3333]

Ok. Well What has Rob been doing for the last 25 years? I’m disappointed with him in that case.

The CD is a complete red herring in this context anyway.

Hehe the Blu M-Scaler didn't exist 25 years ago, so not sure how that applies... neither did high speed USB audio sources and DXD rate files able to be purchased so easily.... I'm only thinking about a fiber link between a future M-Scaler and DAC.... Nothing more than that.

He's obviously been doing ground-breaking stuff these past 25 years, that we're all fans and supporters of.

This is supposed to be just a fun chat. I wasn't expecting anyone to get sensitive...

And more importantly I can't imagine Rob reading about my dreams and getting offended in ANY way. In fact I imagine him chuckling and thinking 'that's so 2015' because I imagine he's already got much better ideas looong term.

 

[Malcyg]

Hehe the M-Scaler didn't exist 25 years ago, so not sure how that applies... neither did high speed USB audio sources and DXD rate files able to be purchased so easily.... I'm only thinking about a fiber link between a future M-Scaler and DAC.... Nothing more than that.

He's obviously been doing ground-breaking stuff these past 25 years, that we're all fans and supporters of.

This is supposed to be just a fun chat. I wasn't expecting anyone to get sensitive...

But the CD has no relevance to anything that you have said, so I don’t get your point about that. All of your theories apply equally to Blu II as they do to a stand-alone M Scaler - there is no difference. The CD is completely irrelevant aside from the fact that some folk don’t want it. I get that - I barely use it myself now, but it has been invaluable as a reference tool.

 

[flyte3333]

But the CD has no relevance to anything that you have said, so I don’t get your point about that. All of your theories apply equally to Blu II as they do to a stand-alone M Scaler - there is no difference. The CD is completely irrelevant aside from the fact that some folk don’t want it. I get that - I barely use it myself now, but it has been invaluable as a reference tool.

I don't disagree with you at all. But for this longer term fun chat / thought exercise, let's think beyond physical CD's...

CD's will be a legacy input/source, longer term. Don't ask me when because if I had the power to know when, I'd also pick the winning Powerball numbers

That doesn't mean Rob can't/won't use it as a reference tool himself in the design process.

But the CD has no relevance to anything that you have said

Thinking shorter term: do you think the next M-Scaler released (smaller one for Hugo2 maybe?) will feature a CD transport? I don't but who knows. And future M-Scalers?

 

[Jawed]

But the CD has no relevance to anything that you have said

Does the sound of CD playback from Blu 2 vary depending upon the connection between Blu 2 and DAVE? Does a good cable make a difference over a bad cable? Does adding ferrites make a difference?

Now playing: Shannon Ley - Recording 15

 

[flyte3333]

Nonetheless, I suspect that Rob will be delighted to learn how easy it all is

By the way I said the complete opposite in my earlier posts, that it would be tricky (in many ways) to implement and internally isolate a high speed fiber optic physical interface, especially inside the DAC end. Nobody is claiming anything is easy and I actually claimed the opposite, so hopefully nobody will be overly dramatic for this fun and harmless thought exercise.

Not impossible - as mentioned a few times, Playback Designs have their PLink fiber solution (to connect only with other PD hardware) for a few years now...

As mentioned, a question to ask is do you really believe the next M-Scaler will include a CD transport? If the answer is no, then we can ignore CD playback for this fun and harmless thought exercise, especially thinking about (dreaming) about years down the track.

 

[Hifi Boy]

I think you are missing the point. The boxes are not fixing a BluDave problem, they are fixing a network and file delivery problem. We are using the Blu CD as a benchmark precisely because it is not subject to that problem.

Nonetheless, I suspect that Rob will be delighted to learn how easy it all is - I just can’t believe he didn’t spot this 20 years ago.

From what I've read, the FPGA in Blu2 generates a lot of noise which you have to fix with ferrites. Not saying there is no other source, I mean, I have P5 Power supply to reduce mains noise problems, but Blu2 is a source of noise as well.

 

[raypin]

Mm...switched from Monitor Acoustics power conditioner to PS Audio P3 AC Regenerator for HE 1/Dave/BluMk2. No noticeable improvement or degredation in sound quality. Still advantageous: clean power assured.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Now that I’m FF’d (fully ferrited) I’ll enjoy what I have until a single box, single FPGA, native core, 10m scaler DAC is available!

 

[Bart Goyens]

Maybe it’s just me but there is something I don’t understand.
If you use the cd as the base to determine the sound of bludave and try to get the sound of the usb close to the cd. Than
Blu produces noise but not on the CD playback, right. Only noise on the usb input. Than why do we need ferrites on the cable between blu and Dave and not on the usb cable?
Or did I miss something?

 

[Malcyg]

Maybe it’s just me but there is something I don’t understand.
If you use the cd as the base to determine the sound of bludave and try to get the sound of the usb close to the cd. Than
Blu produces noise but not on the CD playback, right. Only noise on the usb input. Than why do we need ferrites on the cable between blu and Dave and not on the usb cable?
Or did I miss something?

This is reflecting understandable confusion and why I said that some people, not you, are missing the point. Any noise generated within the Blu II is dealt with by cabling and ferrites - irrespective of the input source be it CD or otherwise. If you make improvements to the dual BNC connection, then the CD benefits just as the USB input does.

The big issue is that of the streaming and file playback mechanism which can involve PC’s, servers, networks, switches and routers all of which are inherently very noisy. Then you have all sorts of other noise generators around your house including your own stereo system components. This noise does not manifest itself as an obvious noise but, rather, as a degradation in the sound quality. This degradation, in my opinion, is why people find certain drawbacks to digital systems compared to analogue. The CD in the Blu II is not subject to this extraneous noise and I think I was the first one to spot this and to use it as a benchmark. I thought my streaming setup sounded great for a digital setup. When I added Blu II to my Dave, it sounded even better and I was very happy. Then I played a CD in the Blu II - wow! Now this was different in a big way. Why did it sound so much better than my files? I needed to find out because once you hear it, you can’t go back so the work began to get my streaming setup to that level. The scale of difference will not be the same for everybody because we will each suffer noise to different degrees within our own setup which makes a standardised solution hard to achieve.

Whether CD has a future or not is completely irrelevant and everyone will have their own opinion on that. My point is that, without the CD, I would never have even known how good it could all be. Yes, I would have been content and I would have spent less money for sure, but boy would I have been missing out.

It’s ok to speculate/dream of simple solutions that will take the noise from a myriad disparate range of sources and magically transform it all into silence for everybody, irrespective of their own situation but, if it were that simple, someone would have done it and be making a lot of money somewhere. The clever guys who design the gear that we buy like Rob and others that I have communicated with are still digging into all this stuff and there is still a way to go, so forgive me for being sceptical when some armchair experts come up with a magic bullet. I mean no disrespect with that terminology, but this has been a life’s work for Rob and others like him. I am certainly not even close to being an armchair expert, but I have had nearly a year’s experience with a BluDave setup and it does somewhat baffle me that we receive expert opinion from people who do not even own a Blu II.

Sorry for the lengthy post - typed on an iPhone no less!!