[PooManDeluxe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by devast /img/forum/go_quote.gif You think a pcm2707 is better then a 1793 ? Maybe in dreamworld.

Wait.. the Muse has both those components?

Did you mean to compare the EF2's 2702 vs the Muse's 1793? And claim that the latter kicks the living **** out of the EF2?

In that case, I'll gladly shell out $100

 

[devast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooManDeluxe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wait.. the Muse has both those components? Did you mean to compare the EF2's 2702 vs the Muse's 1793? And claim that the latter kicks the living **** out of the EF2? In that case, I'll gladly shell out $100

The pcm270x used in the muse as the usb receiver. Meaning it outputs i2s digital signal to the pcm1793 dac. However, in the ef2 it's used as usb receiver and dac.
I'm quite confident, that the 270x as a dac sucks, compared to other similar offerings (cirrus chips, ad1852 and other, wolfsons and even the 1793).
I'm not saying, that the 1793 is the end of all. There are much better chips out there. Even then, it has a voltage output, it's quite easy to build a circuit around it, and it's performance is ok(that's why it's popular probably).

 

[MikeW]

There's more to this device then the dac. It's an AMP Dac Combo. Head-Direct is also a well known company, with good support and decent quality control (not the best, but better then avg for chineese products). So when comparing these devices the AMP section must also be compared, what the EF2 lacks in dac, it may very well make up for in amp, + tube rolling options. I doubt the dac section in either of these offering will be anything to get excited about, at least with EF2 you get tubes to tailor the sound a bit.

here's more info on the EF2 if you have not seen this thread...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...sb-dac-433150/


EDIT: to be clear, my responces have been targeted to Poormandeluxe, not the OP. There's some confusion here, if your looking for a dac only, I do not recomend the EF2. Only as a combo, the EF2 also can accept standard RCA input, bypassing it's DAC, to be used as an amp only.

 

[devast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....

If the source sucks, no matter how good your amping is, it will still remain bad. You can roll tubes, others can roll opamps. I don't really like ppl hyping up stuff, that has circuit designed in light of being total budget. Don't take it personally. Also the amp part of it can be good, for its price.

 

[fdhfdy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikealdren /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks all, I'm UK based so the pacific valve doesn't really help but the general info from all is very welcome. I will be going to China at Christmas and depending on my itinery, I may try to buy a DAC out there. If I do, I'll report back on the adventure! Mike

Are you going to visit Beijing? if so there is a display place for little dot full series products including the dacs. (probably can try their new dac_2 there if lucky). It opens most of days a week. headphone lovers in china go there quite often sometimes they bring their own gears for comparison. It a good chance to try and hear chinese made machines imo.

Wish I can go to china soon. May bring a "heavy" machine back then.

 

[fdhfdy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif The PCM1704UK has nothing to do with USB....USB requires another chip altogether which 9 times out of 10 is the mediocre performer the PCM2707 which does not allow 24/96 over USB but caps that at 16/48. In order to enable 24/96 over USB requires an expensive chip and it's related software/hardware. Look at the Bel Canto DAC 3 or the Benchmark DAC's for details on such things or google 24/96 over USB and you will quickly find out the difference between a DAC chip (the PCM1704UK) and the interface needed for USB operation to feed that DAC chip. Peete.

Also, Peete. Can you tell more about the inside of the DAC.
See pics here: îÚÁúÒôƵ DA1704ÓÅ»ÝÔ¤¶¨.(ÒÑÉÏÇåÎú´óͼ) ¶ú»ú´ó¼Ò̳ ¶ú»ú,¶úÈû,¶ú»ú·Å´óÆ÷,ËæÉíÌý,DIY,ÒôÀÖ

 

[MikeW]

I did not realize I was hyping the ef2. my bad.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Another Chinese brand that getting a lot of (justified!) hype is 'Musiland'.

There are a number of long threads based on their products in the 'Computer Audio' sub-forum e.g.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...-spdif-423960/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...-02-us-443786/

The EF2 is more amp first, DAC second tbh. You personally would benefit more in a DAC first amp second (in priority) in terms of overall sound tbh in DACs.
The Musiland's are insane bang for buck tbh.

 

[fanboy22]

I recently discovered that my Yamaha RX-v1800 amplifier would not send digital input to the zone 2 & zone 3 speakers. Analog only, bummer. So I needed a outboard DAC. I had a $30 unit from Creative purchased several years ago, but much to my surprise it sounded totally worse than the one in the amp! I did a careful A/B test through the Aperion Intimus 4B speakers in the living room 5.1 setup using either the Creative USB or the internal DAC. I used sterio only (no pre-amp processing) and there was no doubt: the Creative was muddy and tinny. After some digging I purchased a Mocha from China figuring maybe it would be as good as the Yamaha. Hooked it up this weekend- and I'm surprised again. The Mocha is WAY BETTER. The audiophiles are right! I was totally skeptical that I could even hear the difference a "better" DAC might provide. But totally. My 10-year-old son picked it out as "much better" in the same blind A/B test. Listening to old favorites and they are richer an warmer and full of new detail. New speakers (Intimus 6T) arrive Thursday. So excited to hear the finished system.

09 NEW VERSION MOCHA 24/96 Stereo DAC & USB & digital - eBay (item 120442516040 end time Dec-26-09 19:28:38 PST)

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdhfdy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, Peete. Can you tell more about the inside of the DAC. See pics here: îÚÁúÒôƵ DA1704ÓÅ»ÝÔ¤¶¨.(ÒÑÉÏÇåÎú´óͼ) ¶ú»ú´ó¼Ò̳ ¶ú»ú,¶úÈû,¶ú»ú·Å´óÆ÷,ËæÉíÌý,DIY,ÒôÀÖ

It uses a decent set of chips (none better than the PCM1704UK IMO) but the Yulong's analog output section is compromised and the power supplies are barely adequate for the job. What's the cost of this unit ? If it's close to the cost of the Audio-gd DAC19MKIII then I would look seriously at the DAC19MKIII and it's build vs the Yulong for a direct comparison to what I alluded to in the first sentence.

The A-gd unit is so much better built and designed than the Yulong it isn't even worth comparing (TBH) all other parameters being equal. Throw away specs and graphs for digital gear, they all measure well and have for years...from crappy to outstanding when listened to (which is what counts after all). The real worth of digital gear lies in it's power supply quality,min number of 2 PSU's a requirement for even the most basic of DACs that feign sound quality as as important and the level of quality of it's analog output section tacked onto the back end of the receiver/dac chip sets chosen. A perfect example of this philosophy is the FrankenZERO and the Oritek DACs...they take good receiver/dac combos and rework the analog outs and the power supplies to transform a mediocre performer into something well beyond recognition from stock. Think of a digital player the sum of all it's parts as the final arbiter of quality rather than just it's DAC/receiver chip sets chosen (although that is also important).


Peete.

 

[AVU]

I guess the difference is that the Yulong 1704 is for a dac/amp, while the audio-gd 19 costs about that much for just a stand alone DAC.  So it's about $300 more.
 
Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdhfdy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, Peete. Can you tell more about the inside of the DAC. See pics here: îÚÁúÒôƵ DA1704ÓÅ»ÝÔ¤¶¨.(ÒÑÉÏÇåÎú´óͼ) ¶ú»ú´ó¼Ò̳ ¶ú»ú,¶úÈû,¶ú»ú·Å´óÆ÷,ËæÉíÌý,DIY,ÒôÀÖ

It uses a decent set of chips (none better than the PCM1704UK IMO) but the Yulong's analog output section is compromised and the power supplies are barely adequate for the job. What's the cost of this unit ? If it's close to the cost of the Audio-gd DAC19MKIII then I would look seriously at the DAC19MKIII and it's build vs the Yulong for a direct comparison to what I alluded to in the first sentence.

The A-gd unit is so much better built and designed than the Yulong it isn't even worth comparing (TBH) all other parameters being equal. Throw away specs and graphs for digital gear, they all measure well and have for years...from crappy to outstanding when listened to (which is what counts after all). The real worth of digital gear lies in it's power supply quality,min number of 2 PSU's a requirement for even the most basic of DACs that feign sound quality as as important and the level of quality of it's analog output section tacked onto the back end of the receiver/dac chip sets chosen. A perfect example of this philosophy is the FrankenZERO and the Oritek DACs...they take good receiver/dac combos and rework the analog outs and the power supplies to transform a mediocre performer into something well beyond recognition from stock. Think of a digital player the sum of all it's parts as the final arbiter of quality rather than just it's DAC/receiver chip sets chosen (although that is also important).


Peete.

 

[wavoman]

If you need balanced analog output, look at this:
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-Matrix-mini-i-24-192-Balanced-DAC-Headphone-AMP-/360283856327
 
Really a very fine unit, I am quite happy with it. 
 
See
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/438499/matrix-24-192-balanced-dac
 
It handles 192, 176.4, and 88.2 -- all important to me.  It will take in USB and output a secondary SPDIF signal!  The front panel vol control can be used to control analog line level (bal and se) as well as the HP output.
 
Very neat, very good SQ.