[rhodes54]

Quote:

Hi rhodes54,
Which model Tentlabs clock(s) are you using in the Chameleon VCXO? XO? What kind of power supply are you using for that clock?
Thanks

I use two XO 2.2 boards with a 12Mhz (receiver board) and 24.576Mhz (upsampling board) XO both with a seperate XO Supply

 

[skibum]

What do people think the improved SQ of the Chameleon over the VALAB DAC is most due to? 
 
Is it going from 8 TDA1543 chips to 16?
 
Better power supply?
 
?
 
Has anyone tried running the Chameleon with just 8 DAC Chips? 
 
I am working on a bit of a project and I am wondering if 16 chips really does give a better SQ than 8....
 
Thanks -

 

[Wood]

The power supply is important, I started with a stock Valab, and when I added the DC-30W to it there was a tightening of the bass and better grip on the music. But the extra chips are the real key, I took chips out of the Chameleon in stages down to 12 chips. Each time I removed pairs of chips the soundstage shrank and the bass got looser. It did sound more and more like the Valab. The biggest jump was going from 14 to the full 16 chips its was like the sq flipped to another state. Having said that I still like listing to the Valab, it has a very intimate character and is a lot less fussy then the Chameleon with what you partner it with.

 

[marcelnl]

bass tightness is one thing, but a wider soundstage could be more timesmearing. How about the 3 D staging did that improve in relation to normal recordings f.e. something as acoustical music w/wo voices recorded live with a 2 mike blümlein setup, or do you think the soundstage was artificially inflated?
 
I've been wondering for a while whether 1 DAC per channel would not be the limit if you're looking for a natural 3D soundstage......
 

 

[sinrouge88]

Thanks Bill.
I plan to house the ultravox inside Chameleon.
The Ultravox output will be soldered to the Chameleon USB input connector (instead of using a USB cable A to B type) and the Ultravox will share the PS from Chameleon.
Hope this will improve the SQ on USB.
Thanks.

 

[Wood]

Quote:

bass tightness is one thing, but a wider soundstage could be more timesmearing.

could be, but it isnt

 

[marcelnl]

Quote:

could be, but it isnt

I'm willing to believe that but could you elaborate on why you think that ?
Consider that I'm an atheist, so pls try to convince me

 

[Wood]

Well the soundstage is bigger in all dimensions. I put that down to greater information retrieval=more audio cues. Of course I could be wrong and the larger soundstage is a result of smearing, If so, then I say bring it on, smearing rocks

 
Oh and the soundstage various considerably with different recordings, if it was smearing I guess it would stay the same size.

 

[Newk Yuler]

Quote:

bass tightness is one thing, but a wider soundstage could be more timesmearing. How about the 3 D staging did that improve in relation to normal recordings f.e. something as acoustical music w/wo voices recorded live with a 2 mike blümlein setup, or do you think the soundstage was artificially inflated?
 
I've been wondering for a while whether 1 DAC per channel would not be the limit if you're looking for a natural 3D soundstage......

 
Are you thinking that the summed output signal is skewed by minute timing differences between the individual DAC chips?

 

[taiphan]

Hi all?
 
I was thinking the same with regard to the number of chips. What if u double stack the valab to 16 chips? what would be the likely outcome?
also, is there any theory on SQ vs operating temperature of the dac chip?

 

[marcelnl]

Operating temp will affect any single dac to some extent, I'm more inclined to believe that each single DAC functions slightly differently and will result in minute time and amplitude differences at the output.
 
What might happen is that when you have enough DAC chips in parallel the timing and amplitude of the resulting signal averages out and the real signal wins, yet still I have a feeling that one very precise DAC will let more of the music through.
 
There should be a way to do a balanced type approach with enough DACs in parallel that might work, who knows (probably not an original idea and surely already tested or even on the market)
 

 

[CountChoculaBot]

I've decided to buy a Chameleon since I'm still looking for a "fun" DAC that my VALAB felt like.  I'm wanting to buy the premium version with the big output caps and other stuff from Vintage audio lab off ebay for $500:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Valab-Chameleon-Ultra-Low-Jitteer-USB-DAC-16x-TDA1543-/270584975061?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f001f0ed5
 
Would there be any reason not to, or at least to hold off purchase?  Is TeraDak coming up with any major Chameleon upgrades in the forseeable future, like how they had about a million revisions to the VALAB dac?

 

[Newk Yuler]

Quote:

Operating temp will affect any single dac to some extent, I'm more inclined to believe that each single DAC functions slightly differently and will result in minute time and amplitude differences at the output.
 
What might happen is that when you have enough DAC chips in parallel the timing and amplitude of the resulting signal averages out and the real signal wins, yet still I have a feeling that one very precise DAC will let more of the music through.
 
There should be a way to do a balanced type approach with enough DACs in parallel that might work, who knows (probably not an original idea and surely already tested or even on the market)

I've wondered about this in the past but I didn't mention it and nobody seemed concerned about it, or at least I don't remember anyone mentioning it in the Valab and Chameleon threads.  It certainly seems valid whether it's cause for concern or not.  I'm certainly no authority but I can imagine variations between the DACs would cause some very small, weird phase and amplitude issues, modulating against each other in the output signal.  It just makes sense.

 

[Wood]

 
Quote:

I've decided to buy a Chameleon since I'm still looking for a "fun" DAC that my VALAB felt like.  I'm wanting to buy the premium version with the big output caps and other stuff from Vintage audio lab off ebay for $500:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Valab-Chameleon-Ultra-Low-Jitteer-USB-DAC-16x-TDA1543-/270584975061?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f001f0ed5
 
Would there be any reason not to, or at least to hold off purchase?  Is TeraDak coming up with any major Chameleon upgrades in the forseeable future, like how they had about a million revisions to the VALAB dac?

The input boards are retrofit-able, so  when  3rd party product  replacement boards become available (there is one in the R&D stages), you could just plug them in. Otherwise I don't know of any other change planned for the dac itself, some of the great work done by the guys on these forums, that Teradak chose to use on the later versions of the Valab, were added to the first Chameleon on day one. Other mods to the Input board, done on the experimental first run Chameleon from the beginning of this year, have been added by Teradak for the Manufactured version that's on sale now. Looking at the current version, I have no regrets that my version was from 5 months ago, its just as good as the newer one. The thing is we end up pulling most of it apart and rebuilding it anyway.

 

[rhodes54]

Quote:

I've decided to buy a Chameleon since I'm still looking for a "fun" DAC that my VALAB felt like.  I'm wanting to buy the premium version with the big output caps and other stuff from Vintage audio lab off ebay for $500:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Valab-Chameleon-Ultra-Low-Jitteer-USB-DAC-16x-TDA1543-/270584975061?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f001f0ed5
 
Would there be any reason not to, or at least to hold off purchase?  Is TeraDak coming up with any major Chameleon upgrades in the forseeable future, like how they had about a million revisions to the VALAB dac?

 
I would advice you to buy from Teradak directly. The version that's shown on the pictures from Vintage Audio Lab is the older one. I see the older power supply (not the new PCB especially designed for the Chameleon) and older plugin boards.
Get the black Chameleon, that's the "mass produced" and newest version.