Cen.Grand 9i-906 "Silver Fox"
Sep 14, 2023 at 1:10 PM Post #692 of 933
Don’t confuse power with volume. They are not the same.
True, but I find it more engaging and dynamic when I turn it up slightly more to about 85-90db, but after a few songs at that volume my ears get a little wonky, so for the sake of my hearing, I listen to them at less than optimal volume. Figured if I couldn't listen to the Enleum+Sus at it's full potential because of tinnitus, chances are upgrading to those speaker amps wouldn't help me either.
 
Sep 14, 2023 at 1:17 PM Post #693 of 933
True, but I find it more engaging and dynamic when I turn it up slightly more to about 85-90db, but after a few songs at that volume my ears get a little wonky, so for the sake of my hearing, I listen to them at less than optimal volume. Figured if I couldn't listen to the Enleum+Sus at it's full potential because of tinnitus, chances are upgrading to those speaker amps wouldn't help me either.

Makes sense.
 
Sep 14, 2023 at 3:49 PM Post #694 of 933
Bottom line, some people like Susvara with speaker amps, while others prefer powerful headphone amps (and some dislike the Susvara altogether). I agree with @ken6217 that it really comes down to personal preference rather than some inherent superiority of speaker amps. But that's up to each individual user.

I personally enjoy my HE-6 driven by the Silver Fox more than I do when using one of the several quality speaker amps I have laying around. But again, I wouldn't say it is the only choice, but rather one of many good options out there.

So maybe let's refrain from sweeping generalizations and try to stick to more fruitful discussion.
 
Sep 14, 2023 at 6:18 PM Post #695 of 933
@JeffMann

I just find the V281 more to my tastes. I’ve had this Ml many times over the last eight years. I have tried different amps and always find my way back to V281. I just like the musical, euphonic, killer bass, and warm sound.
Could you please expand on this topic because I was under the impression that the Silver Fox has a warm, full-bodied sound - based on reading comments in this thread? Do you think that the V281 amp drives a Susvara headphone better than the Silver Fox amp in terms of producing a more full-bodied/warmer sound? Then, a Silver Fox amp would probably not suit me because I find my Susvara headphone lacks enough tonal weight in the lower midrange and midbass when driven by my V281 headphone amplifier. I am hoping to find a headphone amp that will allow my Susvara headphone to have the same warm full-bodied tonal qualities as my Meze Empy Elite headphones - while still retaining its amazing transient attack and micro-resolution abilities.

Jeff.
 
Sep 14, 2023 at 6:57 PM Post #696 of 933
Could you please expand on this topic because I was under the impression that the Silver Fox has a warm, full-bodied sound - based on reading comments in this thread? Do you think that the V281 amp drives a Susvara headphone better than the Silver Fox amp in terms of producing a more full-bodied/warmer sound? Then, a Silver Fox amp would probably not suit me because I find my Susvara headphone lacks enough tonal weight in the lower midrange and midbass when driven by my V281 headphone amplifier. I am hoping to find a headphone amp that will allow my Susvara headphone to have the same warm full-bodied tonal qualities as my Meze Empy Elite headphones - while still retaining its amazing transient attack and micro-resolution abilities.

Jeff.
Could the sheer physical thinness of Susvara drivers / sheets, excellent for transients, be a de facto deterrent to achieving warm full bodied sound? 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Sep 14, 2023 at 8:05 PM Post #697 of 933
Could you please expand on this topic because I was under the impression that the Silver Fox has a warm, full-bodied sound - based on reading comments in this thread? Do you think that the V281 amp drives a Susvara headphone better than the Silver Fox amp in terms of producing a more full-bodied/warmer sound? Then, a Silver Fox amp would probably not suit me because I find my Susvara headphone lacks enough tonal weight in the lower midrange and midbass when driven by my V281 headphone amplifier. I am hoping to find a headphone amp that will allow my Susvara headphone to have the same warm full-bodied tonal qualities as my Meze Empy Elite headphones - while still retaining its amazing transient attack and micro-resolution abilities.

Jeff.

I I can’t really speak to the Susvara as I don’t like the headphone and so it doesn’t matter if I hooked it up to a Porsche. It’s too delicate sounding and lacking bass for my taste. I borrowed it for a couple of weeks to see if I could talk myself into liking it.

With regards to the Silver Fox and V281, it’s a matter of degrees. They both are considered warm amps, but the V281 is warmer and thicker sounding. Some people may like that and some people don’t. The snobs will say the V281 is only Mid-Fi. 😂

I don’t think you ever find a solid state amp that’s going get the Susvara to sound full-bodied like the Empyrean Elite, especially if you don’t think the V281 does. Maybe if you found a good tube amp that puts out a lot of power, but I don’t know for sure as I’m not a tube amp guy.

What is your opinion of the V281 with your Susvara?
 
Sep 14, 2023 at 8:10 PM Post #698 of 933
Could the sheer physical thinness of Susvara drivers / sheets, excellent for transients, be a de facto deterrent to achieving warm full bodied sound? 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’ll go to my grave saying that excellent transients, transparency, a lot of resolution, huge soundstage, and wide instrument separation is mutually exclusive to warm and full body sound.

I have spent a crap ton of money over the years between amplifiers, headphones, digital cables, analog cables, streamers, etc. trying to walk that fine line of getting it all, and you’ll never get it all. With speakers you can, but not headphones. Others may disagree, but I spent the time and the money proving it to myself (unfortunately).

Of course it also comes down to the individual people some people will tell you that the utopia has good bass. I guess to them it does.
 
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Sep 14, 2023 at 10:27 PM Post #699 of 933
I I can’t really speak to the Susvara as I don’t like the headphone and so it doesn’t matter if I hooked it up to a Porsche. It’s too delicate sounding and lacking bass for my taste. I borrowed it for a couple of weeks to see if I could talk myself into liking it.

With regards to the Silver Fox and V281, it’s a matter of degrees. They both are considered warm amps, but the V281 is warmer and thicker sounding. Some people may like that and some people don’t. The snobs will say the V281 is only Mid-Fi. 😂

I don’t think you ever find a solid state amp that’s going get the Susvara to sound full-bodied like the Empyrean Elite, especially if you don’t think the V281 does. Maybe if you found a good tube amp that puts out a lot of power, but I don’t know for sure as I’m not a tube amp guy.

What is your opinion of the V281 with your Susvara?
I have owned many Vioelectric amps (V200, V281, V280 and Nimbus US4+) and I like the V281 the best because of its "warmth".

However, I cannot get my Susvara (which I have owned for 6 years) to have enough warmth (enough tonal density in the lower midrange and midbass region) with any amp that I have auditioned. I only fully realised that it seriously lacked "warmth" when I purchased the Meze Empy Elite headphone, which I like much better when it comes to the particular sound quality feature of musical tone/timbre.

Jeff.
 
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Sep 14, 2023 at 11:06 PM Post #700 of 933
I have owned many Vioelectric amps (V200, V281, V280 and Nimbus US4+) and I like the V281 the best because of its "warmth".

However, I cannot get my Susvara (which I have owned for 6 years) to have enough warmth (enough tonal density in the lower midrange and midbass region) with any amp that I have auditioned. I only fully realised that it seriously lacked "warmth" when I purchased the Meze Empy Elite headphone, which I like much better when it comes to the particular sound quality feature of musical tone/timbre.

Jeff.

If you didn’t write this, and you were just reading it, do you know what you would think? It’s the Susvara.

If the V281 is not giving you those exact qualities that you’re looking for, you’re not gonna find it.
 
Sep 15, 2023 at 8:52 AM Post #701 of 933
If you didn’t write this, and you were just reading it, do you know what you would think? It’s the Susvara.

If the V281 is not giving you those exact qualities that you’re looking for, you’re not gonna find it.
You are probably correct.

However, I would be interested in knowing whether any Susvara owner has obtained a significant increase in its tonal density in the lower midrange/midbass region as a result of using a Silver Fox amp.

Jeff.
 
Sep 15, 2023 at 2:34 PM Post #702 of 933
What do you not like about the Silver Fox amp that made you go back to the V281 amp?

I am presently using a Cayin HA300Mk2 amp (equipped with Mullard CV6 driver tubes and WE300B tubes) with my Meze Empy Elite headphones and I love that combination. However, I also own a Susvara headphone which sounds too thin (lacking enough tonal density - especially in the lower midrange and midbass) with any amp that I have ever owned (including the Cayin tube amp and my V281 amp). I was wondering whether the Silver Fox could make it sound more "meaty".

Jeff.
I think Auris Nirvana drive Susvara pretty well
 
Sep 15, 2023 at 3:54 PM Post #703 of 933
You are probably correct.

However, I would be interested in knowing whether any Susvara owner has obtained a significant increase in its tonal density in the lower midrange/midbass region as a result of using a Silver Fox amp.

Jeff.
These questions are quite narrowly targeted at a specific area of the Susvara's performance with the Fox, so it will require a correspondingly controlled session of auditioning in order to be addressed properly, which I cannot do because my Susvara is not with me at the moment, I should be able to address this question more adequately when the Sus is back in the house in about a week or two from now.

What I can tell you from having listened recently to the Sus on my Sonnet Pasithea/Cen.Grand Silver fox combo before it went away is that it has more character, musicality, and a certain increased dimensionality and weightiness to the notes as compared to the Sus on the same chain with Niimbus US4 in place of the Fox, and this is not a "diss" directed at the Niimbus as there is a lot about its performance with the Susvara that I still enjoy and love.

The remarkable thing about the Cen.Grand Silver Fox paired with the Sus is how it is able to make notes in the midrange sound more weighty and more soul-grabbing, while also (and at the same time) extracting and distributing quite skillfully in the soundscape and frequency spectrum, all manner of ethereal details (including the minutest pieces of detail one can think of), in a mesmerizing and captivating (not to mention feathery and silky) spread of sonic confections that are very well delineated in space... That spaciousness (not to mention airiness) is worth mentioning as the generously wide and deep soundstage thrown by the silver fox is one of its more satisfying virtues.

The Niimbus is also similarly capable of extracting detail, but it is in the way those details are presented that might set the Silver Fox apart as it is able to give some of them more room to breath, so to speak, a slightly but distinctively different character, at times, or a certain prominence and bloom that I have called "dimensionality."

Even without having my Susvara on hand at present, which I would like to do in order to give you a more targeted answer to your question about "tonal density in the midrange/bass region," I feel inclined to answer in the affirmative, but that is sounding somewhat premature too as I would like to give the Sus another listen on the Fox in order to be completely certain that I am providing the most precise and accurate answers I can come up with within the immediate context of a comparative audition as opposed to responding from what I can gather from audio memory alone.
 
Sep 15, 2023 at 9:22 PM Post #704 of 933
The Meze Elite are high performance headphones, and the Silver Fox has no pull-down gain to ensure the best performance. The Holo Bliss is an auto gain and resistive load amp that (with a high degree of certainty) forms the best synergy with high performance headphones. I'm sure the Yifang community member will have a successful amp change deal and share his experience with us. I wish him good luck.
However, I find the Silver Fox to be a great amp for difficult-to-drive headphones.

p.s.
In my opinion, it is more correct to compare Silver Fox with Flux Lab Volot and HeadTrip when used with complex headphones. In such a fight, the Silver Fox can really show itself to advantage.
Hi, noticed you mentioned the headtrip. May i ask which model headtrip , that you feel the silver fox is superior to? The original, headtrip 2, or headtrip lvl2? and in what ways is it superior. Thank you
 
Sep 15, 2023 at 9:31 PM Post #705 of 933
Just to update that the DC Blocker from iFi definitely stops the transformer hum but doesn't really do much otherwise. The hum in my case mostly disappears after short while anyway so I don't think I'll be picking up a DC Blocker (they aren't cheap for what it is), but if you have constant hum and noise problems, definitely look into it.
I tried ATLdesigns dc blocker and aslo assembled a dc blocker using sjostrom audio dc3 circuit, both are discrete design dc blocker,its very good for trafo hum, especially big transformer and doesn't squash dynamics like many of the AC noise suppression products do.
 

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