[marios_mar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller With a 500.00 dollars setup in both formats, there is no way you could hear a LP better than a CD....you need to spend a huge amount of money, to get a decent analog sound, later clenaers, and huge space to keep them, and over this, you have to swap he side of the LP very 45 minutes, want more?......thanks I passed long time ago, welcome to the 21st century!!!!!

BUZZZZ!!

Totally wrong!! Many hyperboles...

Project Phonobox MM/MC phonostage $100
Project 1.2 TT $250
Ortofon MC15 moving coil cart $150

total $500

Now show me a $500 CDP that even comes close to this kind of fidelity, realism, detail etc.

Well there is none, don't bother.

I had a similar combo and a similarly priced CDP. Sure the CDP had a greater S/N ratio and had no noises but it was killed in all other respects.

So the advantages are minor compared to the advantages.

Now with more expensive gear you eliminate the noise/S/N and similar deficiences. You get a more authoritative sound with no major drawbacks other than practical ones like for example that you have to be a careful and not a sloppy person and respect your collection.

And again you can buy music for really cheap!! So even if you buy a cleaner sometime 30 records cleaned (bought at $2-4) will make up for the money spent on the machine.

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller With a 500.00 dollars setup in both formats, there is no way you could hear a LP better than a CD....you need to spend a huge amount of money, to get a decent analog sound, later clenaers, and huge space to keep them, and over this, you have to swap he side of the LP very 45 minutes, want more?......thanks I passed long time ago, welcome to the 21st century!!!!!

My analog setup was obtained for less than my digital one and you may believe it or you may not but compared head to head the music is more pleasing on the analog setup. My wife who really does not care much for Holly Cole's singing is of good example. I played her several tracks from Holly's "Temptation" on CD then repeated the same ones on the vinyl release. She was a skeptic as well but she said she could clearly hear differences and that she prefers the vinyl. We tried several other releases on CD and vinyl with the same result. I will not disagree with your statements about space and cleaners though. I do need a better storage system as records are accumulating at too quick a pace.

 

[Sovkiller]

Sorry guys but I have to hear those setups to believe that, nothing against your particular setups, and maybe they sound good, but I have heard a lot more expnesive ones a few, not just once (don't ask me which, I'm not into vinyl and names and brands are not my cup of tea) and all of them are unbearable to my ears, as the surface noise is extremelly loud to be acceptable, even while the music is playing, and this is an inherent problem with vinyl, there is absolutelly no setup that will eliminate that, I would like to hear one that prove me wrong....BTW with 500 you cay even get a good SACD player, not just a red book one...

OK, let's assume that you are right, and they are better soundwise soundwise, now the other ones, to stand up every 45 minutes ot swap the LP the cleaning, and extreemely delicate care, etc...

 

[gsferrari]

Sov - No pain = no gain.

LP/Vinyl maintenance is like the labor of love...you treat your gear well and you are rewarded with incredible music...

I have to say that the MMF-5 experience was spiritual for me...supernatural...

Brought me to tears...

No CD player has managed to do that for me...

BTW - same set of headphones and amp - Omega-2 + KGSS

Cheers!

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari Sov - No pain = no gain. LP/Vinyl maintenance is like the labor of love...you treat your gear well and you are rewarded with incredible music... I have to say that the MMF-5 experience was spiritual for me...supernatural... Brought me to tears... No CD player has managed to do that for me... BTW - same set of headphones and amp - Omega-2 + KGSS Cheers!

I disagree on that, what brought me to tears is the music itself and not the way it sounded, there is no way the Britney Spears can brought me to tears in any setup of this round green planet...

Guys are you sure you do not hear the surface noise in those setups, I can't beleive that!!!! What bothers me is that later on, the same guys that does seems not ot hear it, complain about a hiss on this or that headamp, what hiss are you talking about? The vinyl surface noise is 150 times louder than any hiss while playing...!!!!!

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller .........., now the other ones, to stand up every 45 minutes ot swap the LP the cleaning, and extreemely delicate care, etc...

Good thing you are a young man and did not have to live through the dark ages where we had to stand up and cross the room to change channels on the TV. You never bothered changing during commercial breaks just on the 1/2 hour.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_jcb Good thing you are a young man and did not have to live through the dark ages where we had to stand up and cross the room to change channels on the TV. You never bothered changing during commercial breaks just on the 1/2 hour.

First I'm almost 40 and I do get that era, evne B/W TV, what do you think? I'm not a teenager, and even while I did it, doesn't mean that I will do it again now, or thatis not bothersome....BTW my speaker setup has no remotes at all....

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller First I'm almost 40 and I do get that era, evne B/W TV, what do you think? I'm not a teenager, and even while I did it, doesn't mean that I will do it again now, or thatis not bothersome....BTW my speaker setup has no remotes at all....

Well to me 40 is still very young. Sorry, I always thought you were in your late 20's to early 30's. No reason just an erroneous assumption on my part. Strange how we construct an image in our mind. My CD player has a remote that comes in very handy at times. I must admit that there are nights when I do not want to get up but on those nights even a CD is too short.

Another thing that has not been mentioned is the wealth of music that is only available on vinyl. It is all the old stuff and a lot of classical performances that were never remastered. A good number of early rock, jazz and blues is only out there on vinyl.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller I disagree on that, what brought me to tears is the music itself and not the way it sounded, there is no way the Britney Spears can brought me to tears in any setup of this round green planet...

ROTFLMFAO

Sov - a good vinyl setup is a joy to own...like a piece of history...a connection to a bygone era (debatable if it is making a comeback).

Do you trust my opinion at all? Then just listen to this little bit of info :-

Whatever be the flaws of vinyl - there is something magical about listening to music this way...it sounds organic and alive without the glare and excessive detail...even the hiss, bumps, blips...everything sounds glorious because you know that most of this music will never be seen in any other format again...forgotten gems with a background and history...

Its like classic cars Sov - nobody needs them...but its nice to have them and sometimes they can be better than the new models...

warm regards,

gs

 

[tyrion]

I love the fact that my preamp has a remote, as does my tv, etc. but as gsferrari so aptly put it, it is a labor of love. If I am in a lazy mood, I use my digital setup. When I am not, I play vinyl. In the end the music is what's important regardless of whether it's cd or vinyl. I happen to enjoy the vinyl experience from buying to cleaning to playing...

Guru, keep going, your on a roll. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_jcb Well to me 40 is still very young. Sorry, I always thought you were in your late 20's to early 30's. No reason just an erroneous assumption on my part. Strange how we construct an image in our mind. My CD player has a remote that comes in very handy at times. I must admit that there are nights when I do not want to get up but on those nights even a CD is too short. Another thing that has not been mentioned is the wealth of music that is only available on vinyl. It is all the old stuff and a lot of classical performances that were never remastered. A good number of early rock, jazz and blues is only out there on vinyl.

That is why I have a carousel of 5CDs, instead of a single tray SACD player, I never liked the single tray ones for the same reason, I like to seat and enjoy for hours....

Well 40 is young if you are an American born, I agree, but I'm an "imported" American (in my native third world "underdeveloped" country, there are still only two TV stations, and some programs are still in B/W, and the majority of the radio stations not even transmit in stereo, well talking of 10 years ago, maybe now things had changed a little bit, so go and figure)

Well I'm a rocker by nature, and I manage to get almost my whole collection in CDs, more than a 1000, to the date I only miss one or two LPs, honestly, but I know that this is true, some of them were never released, for those, OK, I give you one point in favor....I have to get the Brian May and Friends "Starfleet Project" "professionally burned" from an LP, and sorry the surface noise is there, really bothersome...

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari ROTFLMFAO Sov - a good vinyl setup is a joy to own...like a piece of history...a connection to a bygone era (debatable if it is making a comeback). Do you trust my opinion at all? Then just listen to this little bit of info :- Whatever be the flaws of vinyl - there is something magical about listening to music this way...it sounds organic and alive without the glare and excessive detail...even the hiss, bumps, blips...everything sounds glorious because you know that most of this music will never be seen in any other format again...forgotten gems with a background and history... Its like classic cars Sov - nobody needs them...but its nice to have them and sometimes they can be better than the new models... warm regards, gs

Ok, if you are talking of a nostalgic point of view, I could accept that...I know that no digital format is still perfect, let's wait the same as the vinyl was on the earth, and you will tell me later, we have made a huge progress, since the first CD was released, don't tell me that it is not true, and everyday we got better and better results....one thing is sure, I have heard very good digital setups, at least they sounded really good to my cloth ears.

BTW I have found more limitations in the way they mix and "remaster" than in the format alone, for example, right now I was listening a CD from Ernesto Lecuona, a famous Cuban pianist and composer from the last century, I remember that I have heard a few LPs from him, a lot better sounding that this one, and it is a piano alone....My question is, waht is wrong here, is that the format? Of course not, if you listen Chick Corea this is not the way a piano sounds, it was the mix and mastering, they screwed it...period....We could not blame the format for a human error....

 

[marios_mar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Sorry guys but I have to hear those setups to believe that, nothing against your particular setups, and maybe they sound good, but I have heard a lot more expnesive ones a few, not just once (don't ask me which, I'm not into vinyl and names and brands are not my cup of tea) and all of them are unbearable to my ears, as the surface noise is extremelly loud to be acceptable, even while the music is playing, and this is an inherent problem with vinyl, there is absolutelly no setup that will eliminate that, I would like to hear one that prove me wrong....BTW with 500 you cay even get a good SACD player, not just a red book one... OK, let's assume that you are right, and they are better soundwise soundwise, now the other ones, to stand up every 45 minutes ot swap the LP the cleaning, and extreemely delicate care, etc...

You exaggerate a bit. Taking care of records is not really the hassle you present it to be. And a good record on a great TT system has no surface noise practically. All one hears is the tape hiss from the master tape.

In the same way analog fans are curious on how some people still bear listening to the lifeless, fake, harsch and ear offending sound coming out of $500 CD players. I reached a point that CD was fatiguing to listen to for more than an hour or a couple. Really fatigueing being so fake and unnatural. This is FAR more important than having a greater S/N ratio and lack of surface noise. If it was that simple and it was only nostalgia not so many "fools" would be messing with expensive "outdated" gear.

 

[john_jcb]

Another interesting tidbit. If you look at the pictures on various sites of this years CES in Las Vegas almost every high end exhibition had a turntable as their source. I can see one or two doing it for showmanship but not the majority.

 

[oneeyedhobbit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Even like that, probably they will sound better than an LP under normal conditions with 40 years over them, the LP deteriorate just for funny, even not playing them will make them sound more scratchy everyday day, not for funny people stopped and will stop using them, day by day....that is the format of the past, and will be that way, why is that so hard to accept for some???? With a 500.00 dollars setup in both formats, there is no way you could hear a LP better than a CD....you need to spend a huge amount of money, to get a decent analog sound, later clenaers, and huge space to keep them, and over this, you have to swap he side of the LP very 45 minutes, want more?......thanks I passed long time ago, welcome to the 21st century!!!!!

I can't afford an LP setup, but rest assured that I've heard analog set ups costing $500 (about half of my total rig) that I preferred over mine.