[gadus]

For me n7 combined with c9 in line out mode with meze 109 pro/um mest/ie800s is simply great,
n7 with ferrum oor+hypsos in line out mode with dca expanse
Perfect for me, I lack nothing, addictive!
Also with the kse1500 electrostatic system - excellent.
I don't care if it's a flagship or not a flagship, it's a player with amazing sound capabilities,
Moved my amps to a much better place,
With analog sound and first class techniques. Excellent transparency and lots of details and resolution, great tone, in every genre,
It gives a very convincing and realistic listening experience.

 

[McCol]

If c9 dont hads as much to n8ii has with n7 ,to my understanding only tells that the n8ii is better than n7 ,and thats normal, the n8ii is the TOTL, now if for your TASTE you like more the n7 that is a personal thing not an universal one, we all have diferent tastes

I did say in my posts 'to my ears', and I also said that technically the N8ii is the better DAP but 'I' prefer the N7 for its more engaging sound.....to my ears!

 

[McCol]

The prices that i have are the prices outside the brexit

I guess for me I got a good deal on a barely used C9, so my total spend was less than the N8ii...but that's luck scouring the classifieds

 

[DaveStarWalker]

Is allways, sometimes the diference of price dont reflects the diference in sound, but that in audio is normal is a very subjective hobby ,or dont reflects people expectations or tastes, but the " normal" is that more expensive is better, if is not so, is not "normal" ,is a bad designed product, but in this era people who likes audio should know better,otherwise people would not buy it (i think)....now if someone says that the n7 plus c9 sound better than the n8ii plus c9 , thats another story....

In my book, the more neat and transparent, full silence = the better.

Looking at the world through a dirty or stained glass does not interest me.

And yes, this ultimate transparency quest, and results, are not related to high prices... I will not say it's quite the contrary but... Well...

I want to hear the music as it is supposed to have been recorded.

 

[Andykong]

For me the N7 is the best DAP I've owned and trust me I've owned a few including the N8ii.
As a standalone unit it doesn't quite match the technical prowess of the N8ii but it has a better musicality to its presentation
When paired with the C9 it takes the N7 beyond the N8ii (in my opinion and to my ears)

There is a certain lushness to the music that just isn't present in anything else I've heard

Thank you and glad you like the N7. If we leave the personal preference for sound signature aside, the N8ii still measures and performs betters at demanding conditions, but N7 can be a gem for certain users, especially when price performance is an important factor. Since you mentioned pairing with C9, N7 definitely has its unique edge when it offers both line-out and pre-out options, one of its kind in the market (to the best of my knowledge).

 

[Andykong]

Is allways, sometimes the diference of price dont reflects the diference in sound, but that in audio is normal is a very subjective hobby ,or dont reflects people expectations or tastes, but the " normal" is that more expensive is better, if is not so, is not "normal" ,is a bad designed product, but in this era people who likes audio should know better,otherwise people would not buy it (i think)....now if someone says that the n7 plus c9 sound better than the n8ii plus c9 , thats another story....

The digital audio section (FPGA + DAC+LPF) are completely different designs, so it is difficult to compare them directly. To simplify the discussion, let's assume the digital audio section of N7 and N8ii are "comparable" in quality. I believe this is not completely off the chart from what I gathered through interaction with many users.

For the analog audio section, N8ii is superior to N7, from both engineering and implementation perspectives. The Dual Timbre (Tube/SS) circuit and Dual Output Mode (P/P+) are unique. The Nutubes (and their installation) are an important (and expensive) audio performance contribution. Both N7 and N8ii are equipped with Class A/AB discrete phone amplifiers, but the N8ii implementation is slightly better, both in terms of specification and performance.

With N8ii + C9, you'll disable Discrete Headphone Amp., the Nutubes, the Dual Timbre (Tube/SS) circuit, and Dual Output Mode (P/P+) in N8ii, and you can only connect N8ii to C9 via Line out connection.

With N7 + C9, you'll disable the Discrete Headphone Amp. and you can connect N7 to C9 via Line-out or Pre-out connections. The Pre-out is a great alternative to line out in this application, and N7 is the one and only DAP that can connect to C9 in genuine preamp configuration.

Practically N7 is lighter than N8ii, that is a slight advantage when you use a bundled system of this size.

So to answer your question. Unless the user has a personal preference for the DAC sound signature of N8ii, otherwise I recommend N7 + C9 over N8ii+ C9 even at price-no-objective condition.

 

[Patlezinc]

@Andykong , i have ordered the RU7 to pair it with the C9. How would you « rate » this combo compared with N7+C9? I can save for a N7 but at the end I will pay for many things I already have in my Fiio m15s (screen, processor, etc).

 

[aleopold]

I posted this over in the Mest forum, but thought I would share here too. The N7 has brought me to a level of connection with the music which is event like, but it took some discover work to for me to find it. Specifically points 4 and 5. The PEQ in the Hiby app is spectacular. Here is the post:

I thought I would share some learnings on my DAP journey - what it has taken to achieve a sound where I can listen to a track I’ve heard 1000 times and be brought to tears and not have a desire to jump to the next track. This is hard to accomplish but I have managed it lately through the combination of the following variables:

1) source: I find pcm lossless (FLAC) is good enough, but not less.

2) IEM: the mest 2 brings a holographic sound and is a good platform to build on. With so many options i started with one I knew is not the best overall, but might be the best value out there. The move from the ~$400 3DT to the mest2 was big and I never want to go back. Is $1-2k the value sweet spot maybe so? I haven’t heard the mentor but I’m getting great results from the Mest2 so that can wait for another day or year

3) tips: I think fit is the most important thing. For me that is a width of 11.2-11.5mm. I think the type of tip matters less than the precise fit. The precise fit is deep and seals the ear entirely and brings the bass out. Azla xelastic has a nice range of sizes and is a good one to figure out the precise width. This took a while to discover because my perfect size was NOT included in the tips that came with the Mest. Once that data point of perfect width is acquired then tip roll. I currently enjoy the Spinfit w1. A less than perfect fit prevents the most engaging sound. This is a necessary condition.

4) DAP: the N7 has been a game changer for me, especially in class A mode. Class A is a more pure amplification at the cost of generating heat and consuming battery life. Right gain setting matters, for me it’s medium with the mest2 which conveys a bit more magic to the sound. The 1 bit DSD approach is something I loved in two channel and here we have it in a small DAP.

5) EQ: I think there might be the perfect IEM out there, perhaps. But intelligent EQ can do a lot. It can take sound from very good to what feels like an event. But changes should be small. How can an IEM maker build a sound everyone likes? For me the EQ got me there with my mest2. The magic is found in the mid range and any sibilance can be smoothed without losing too much definition.

6) cables: I believe they make a difference and that you get what you pay for. I also believe they are the lowest bang for buck. For me the stock mest 2 cable is good enough.

Happy listening!

 

[Andykong]

For me n7 combined with c9 in line out mode with meze 109 pro/um mest/ie800s is simply great,
n7 with ferrum oor+hypsos in line out mode with dca expanse
Perfect for me, I lack nothing, addictive!
Also with the kse1500 electrostatic system - excellent.
I don't care if it's a flagship or not a flagship, it's a player with amazing sound capabilities,
Moved my amps to a much better place,
With analog sound and first class techniques. Excellent transparency and lots of details and resolution, great tone, in every genre,
It gives a very convincing and realistic listening experience.

Thank you. Obviously, the 1-bit DAC and connectivity of N7 are the center position of your considerations. Great tone in every genre is a very important remark to me. There was a saying that Cayin is good at vocal-based music when we were gradually recognized by international HeadFiers. We are determined to improve our performance and to sing on a wider choice of music, your comment has endorsed our sound-turning achievement.

 

[gadus]

I hardly listen to music that is based on vocals...mostly instrumental music, classical and jazz, n7 definitely does it very well,
I find that I like the line out better with both c9 and ferrum oor,
The n7 adds a lot to both.

 

[twister6]

...

So to answer your question. Unless the user has a personal preference for the DAC sound signature of N8ii, otherwise I recommend N7 + C9 over N8ii+ C9 even at price-no-objective condition.

And I also would like to add, N7 + C9 gives you the flexibility of different use combos. On the go when you don't need extra power for demanding headphones or you don't need extra NuTube tone coloration, use N7 by itself. Then, you can scale it up for a more transportable use by adding C9, either LO or Pre-Out connections. And C9 by itself is a portable amp that you can also use with other DAPs or dongles, like RU7 which has its own LO.

 

[ssriram2791]

The digital audio section (FPGA + DAC+LPF) are completely different designs, so it is difficult to compare them directly. To simplify the discussion, let's assume the digital audio section of N7 and N8ii are "comparable" in quality. I believe this is not completely off the chart from what I gathered through interaction with many users.

For the analog audio section, N8ii is superior to N7, from both engineering and implementation perspectives. The Dual Timbre (Tube/SS) circuit and Dual Output Mode (P/P+) are unique. The Nutubes (and their installation) are an important (and expensive) audio performance contribution. Both N7 and N8ii are equipped with Class A/AB discrete phone amplifiers, but the N8ii implementation is slightly better, both in terms of specification and performance.

With N8ii + C9, you'll disable Discrete Headphone Amp., the Nutubes, the Dual Timbre (Tube/SS) circuit, and Dual Output Mode (P/P+) in N8ii, and you can only connect N8ii to C9 via Line out connection.

With N7 + C9, you'll disable the Discrete Headphone Amp. and you can connect N7 to C9 via Line-out or Pre-out connections. The Pre-out is a great alternative to line out in this application, and N7 is the one and only DAP that can connect to C9 in genuine preamp configuration.

Practically N7 is lighter than N8ii, that is a slight advantage when you use a bundled system of this size.

So to answer your question. Unless the user has a personal preference for the DAC sound signature of N8ii, otherwise I recommend N7 + C9 over N8ii+ C9 even at price-no-objective condition.

I hope you have not forgotton Cayin's own N6ii A02 which actually sowed the seeds for establishing Dedicated Line Out/Pre-Out option for N7.

Cayin N6ii motherboard concept has since been inherited other DAP manufacturers (you know who) which makes you guys the Pioneers.

I am relishing RU7 (dare I say mini N7) and RU6 (best R2R dongle - mini R01) which also inherited features from your DAPs. And mother of all, Cayin N8 - the first ever implementation of Nutube on DAP.

This approach is the reason Cayin stature is high among audiophiles here and around the world and obviously your honest feedback (regardless of the impact on your sales) is literally the cherry on top.

We lucky few are still able to enjoy N6ii A02 + C9 and the performance is still leagues and miles above multiple high end DAPs.

I saw your comment on many yet to embrace the dark side (I mean buying N7 ) .. we will in due course of time as starts flowing in... Keep up the good work and keep us interested as always...

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong , i have ordered the RU7 to pair it with the C9. How would you « rate » this combo compared with N7+C9? I can save for a N7 but at the end I will pay for many things I already have in my Fiio m15s (screen, processor, etc).

To answer your question, let's compare the functional diagram of N7 and RU7 when connected to C9, I think that is a good starting point to evaluate the two products from the circuit design level.

The original N7 Functional Diagram is HERE, and the original RU7 Functional Diagram is HERE. I redrawn them with similar layouts so that we can compare them conveniently.

When I wrote the original N7 1-bit DAC explanation, I stated that from "an implementation point of view, the biggest hurdle to implementing R-2R DAC is the extremely demanding precision and temperature tolerance requirements on the resistors. On the other hand, while the 1-Bit DAC technology has relaxed these requirements relatively, it requires a lot of work in noise shaping and is very sensitive to the quality of the power supply", so when we evaluate the quality of 1-bit DAC design/implementation, we should pay attention to these two areas.

The discrete resistor network 1-Bit DACs are the only common points (highlighted in yellow). With N7, the incoming digital audio signal will go through the FPGA for reclocking (with two femtosecond oscillators) and reshaping, and the PCM signal will selectively go through a higher-quality conversion chip handling transcoding and SRC. RU7 will receive the USB bitstream, feed it into the conversion chip, and convert everything to DSD64/128/256 according to the menu setting. Obviously, the N7 offers significantly better D-D pre-processing when compare to RU7.

The RU7 relies on the power from your USB source, and the power will feed the complete RU7 circuit with minimum regulation. The Power Management of N7 is a very sophisticated low-noise highly-isolated supply circuit to support different functions of digital and analog processing separately. I spend 3 days and a lot of discussion with our Engineer to convert their circuit drawing into a power supply/management functional diagram. For those who were in this hobby long enough, they should all be aware that power supply plays a vital role in the audiophile hobby, and you probably will be surprised that with N7, Cayin spends more dollars (per unit) on the power supply/management function than the complete digital audio circuit.

The difference (between N7 and RU7) after the 1-bit resistor network is more transparent and noticeable to users. For your particular case, N7 has a discrete LPF circuit feeding a dedicated Line level and Pre-amp out circuit, and the circuit is fully differential all the way through. we have learned a lot from our A02 Audio Motherboard and have improved the implementation when we are not limited by the physical space and power supply of the modular design. This is by far the most sophisticated non-headphone output analog circuit in the Cayin DAP lineup, even better than N8ii in the comparable feature. On the other hand, RU7 runs on a shared PO/LO circuit, so the line out is not a clean output because it goes through the phone application.

In other words, even when we ignored the discrete Class A/AB phone amplifier in N7, the difference between N7 and RU7 is very significant. They should indeed when you consider the price difference. If N7 is within your reach, I suggest you start saving up for the N7.

 

[Patlezinc]

To answer your question, let's compare the functional diagram of N7 and RU7 when connected to C9, I think that is a good starting point to evaluate the two products from the circuit design level.



The original N7 Functional Diagram is HERE, and the original RU7 Functional Diagram is HERE. I redrawn them with similar layouts so that we can compare them conveniently.

When I wrote the original N7 1-bit DAC explanation, I stated that from "an implementation point of view, the biggest hurdle to implementing R-2R DAC is the extremely demanding precision and temperature tolerance requirements on the resistors. On the other hand, while the 1-Bit DAC technology has relaxed these requirements relatively, it requires a lot of work in noise shaping and is very sensitive to the quality of the power supply", so when we evaluate the quality of 1-bit DAC design/implementation, we should pay attention to these two areas.

The discrete resistor network 1-Bit DACs are the only common points (highlighted in yellow). With N7, the incoming digital audio signal will go through the FPGA for reclocking (with two femtosecond oscillators) and reshaping, and the PCM signal will selectively go through a higher-quality conversion chip handling transcoding and SRC. RU7 will receive the USB bitstream, feed it into the conversion chip, and convert everything to DSD64/128/256 according to the menu setting. Obviously, the N7 offers significantly better D-D pre-processing when compare to RU7.

The RU7 relies on the power from your USB source, and the power will feed the complete RU7 circuit with minimum regulation. The Power Management of N7 is a very sophisticated low-noise highly-isolated supply circuit to support different functions of digital and analog processing separately. I spend 3 days and a lot of discussion with our Engineer to convert their circuit drawing into a power supply/management functional diagram. For those who were in this hobby long enough, they should all be aware that power supply plays a vital role in the audiophile hobby, and you probably will be surprised that with N7, Cayin spends more dollars (per unit) on the power supply/management function than the complete digital audio circuit.

The difference (between N7 and RU7) after the 1-bit resistor network is more transparent and noticeable to users. For your particular case, N7 has a discrete LPF circuit feeding a dedicated Line level and Pre-amp out circuit, and the circuit is fully differential all the way through. we have learned a lot from our A02 Audio Motherboard and have improved the implementation when we are not limited by the physical space and power supply of the modular design. This is by far the most sophisticated non-headphone output analog circuit in the Cayin DAP lineup, even better than N8ii in the comparable feature. On the other hand, RU7 runs on a shared PO/LO circuit, so the line out is not a clean output because it goes through the phone application.

In other words, even when we ignored the discrete Class A/AB phone amplifier in N7, the difference between N7 and RU7 is very significant. They should indeed when you consider the price difference. If N7 is within your reach, I suggest you start saving up for the N7.

Thanks. I am saving already and I cancelled my RU7 order. Musicteck made me an offer for a N7 but, still a lot of money after all I bought recently

 

[Patlezinc]

I have read the french product sheet of the N7 but could not find if it has the DSD format choice like the RU. 64/128/256