Cayin N6iii: Nothing is Impossible with Gen2 User-replaceable Audio Motherboard

[Gold Fox]

@Andykong @Gold Fox it is great that N6iii is now Roon Ready.

However, N30LE (and N8ii, more than likely) getting left behind (as confirmed earlier) leaves a bad taste in one's mouth when a premium, anniversary edition device with the same Snapdragon chip and more RAM doesn't get Roon support.

This decision can hopefully be reconsidered- I don't think I will be buying any further Cayin products otherwise (and I am sure I won't be the only person to think this way);
Cheers!

Not to mention that the last firmware update of the N30LE dates back to 10/05/2024.

NYanakiev, I completely understand how you're feeling—part of the reasoning behind this decision was explained in the N30LE thread. I'm sorry but for now, that's all I can say on the matter.

As for firmware updates — this reminds me of questions we often got way back in the i5 era, well in fact, not only i5, almost all of our devices: “Why isn’t there a new firmware?” And while the i5’s situation is different from the N30LE, our attitude toward firmware has always been consistent.

We have continued to monitor the discussion on all these Cayin threads, collecting problems and conduct testing and evaluation whenever necessary. Please be rest assured that Cayin is not in-active while we are “silenced”, we just believed that we shouldn’t jump on board with empty promises only.

There’s an old saying in the electronics world — “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” And honestly, it’s more of a practical principle than a punchline. We don’t roll out firmware updates just for the sake of it. Instead, we actively monitor user feedback on forums, and if issues are reported, we gather, verify, and address them through firmware as required.

The N30LE has been running stably so far, which is why we haven’t release any updates to it.

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I have a small request to the player developers. Please make the full-screen volume control dialog switchable. Let there be an option to choose between a small system volume control dialog and a full-screen one. On Hiby players, this option was called Hiby Volume Dialog and there was an option to disable this option. This option is also on the Cayin N6III player, but it is hidden and there is no end to accessing it. If it is possible to turn off the full-screen volume control dialog, then please write short instructions on how to do this.

I'm not quite sure whether this is a hidden function or something that actually exists, but I’ll pass your request along to the engineering team!

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Hey @Gold Fox , is there a plan to update to Android 13 for the N6iii ?

I must say, Android 12 for a device released in 2024 is not optimal.... We already have Android 16 coming out.

Hey shimigg, honestly, it ties into something I touched above about firmware updates in general.

The short answer is: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,” again.

Now, the longer version is this — every Android version we implement in a DAP isn’t just a simple copy and paste application. It involves low level programming, deep-level testing and optimization: checking for bugs, ensuring smooth performance, and making sure it meets major streaming apps' (Apple Music, Qobuz, Tidal, etc.) running requiremenht. That’s a big lift.

Yes, Android 12 isn’t the newest kid on the block — but it’s currently stable, works well with supported services, and is optimized. Jumping to Android 13, 14 (or beyond) means more stress, more strain on a SoC that’s already balancing audio performance as a top priority. It’s a bit like forcing your old iPhone to run the latest iOS — it may works, but the tradeoff is usually lag, bloat, or battery drain.

And especially in the case of DAPs, stability of system and audio playback is the focus — not fancy animations, keeping as much background processes as possible at the cost of higher memory and CPU consumption. So, stability > novelty here.

 

[shimigg]

NYanakiev, I completely understand how you're feeling—part of the reasoning behind this decision was explained in the N30LE thread. I'm sorry but for now, that's all I can say on the matter.

As for firmware updates — this reminds me of questions we often got way back in the i5 era, well in fact, not only i5, almost all of our devices: “Why isn’t there a new firmware?” And while the i5’s situation is different from the N30LE, our attitude toward firmware has always been consistent.

There’s an old saying in the electronics world — “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” And honestly, it’s more of a practical principle than a punchline. We don’t roll out firmware updates just for the sake of it. Instead, we actively monitor user feedback on forums, and if issues are reported, we gather, verify, and address them through firmware as required.

The N30LE has been running stably so far, which is why we haven’t release any updates to it.

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I'm not quite sure whether this is a hidden function or something that actually exists, but I’ll pass your request along to the engineering team!

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Hey shimigg, honestly, it ties into something I touched above about firmware updates in general.

The short answer is: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,” again.

Now, the longer version is this — every Android version we implement in a DAP isn’t just a simple copy and paste application. It involves low level programming, deep-level testing and optimization: checking for bugs, ensuring smooth performance, and making sure it meets major streaming apps' (Apple Music, Qobuz, Tidal, etc.) running requiremenht. That’s a big lift.

Yes, Android 12 isn’t the newest kid on the block — but it’s currently stable, works well with supported services, and is optimized. Jumping to Android 13, 14 (or beyond) means more stress, more strain on a SoC that’s already balancing audio performance as a top priority. It’s a bit like forcing your old iPhone to run the latest iOS — it may works, but the tradeoff is usually lag, bloat, or battery drain.

And especially in the case of DAPs, stability of system and audio playback is the focus — not fancy animations, keeping as much background processes as possible at the cost of higher memory and CPU consumption. So, stability > novelty here.

Thanks for the detailed answer, I am talking from a longevity point of view and the fact that streaming apps usually move to a newer Android base from time to time, this is why I asked how many years or known usage lifetime based on previous players you launched .... What should I expect from the N6iii ?

 

[WDitters]

Thanks for the detailed answer, I am talking from a longevity point of view and the fact that streaming apps usually move to a newer Android base from time to time, this is why I asked how many years or known usage lifetime based on previous players you launched .... What should I expect from the N6iii ?

I really wouldn't worry. Minimum Android version for Tidal currently is 7.0+, for Qobuz 6.0+, for Spotify 7.0+, for Apple Music 7.0+ ... It will be a good while before we start hitting the 12+ or newer versions

 

[KaiFi]

@Andykong @Gold Fox it is great that N6iii is now Roon Ready.

However, N30LE (and N8ii, more than likely) getting left behind (as confirmed earlier) leaves a bad taste in one's mouth when a premium, anniversary edition device with the same Snapdragon chip and more RAM doesn't get Roon support.

This decision can hopefully be reconsidered- I don't think I will be buying any further Cayin products otherwise (and I am sure I won't be the only person to think this way);
Cheers!

Not to defend Cayin's decision here, but it kinda seems like all DAP manufacturers are like this? The newest device is the only one that gets any attention or updates. They often promise software updates to other devices that never come. If you're not using their latest flagship, don't expect anything to be updated, and don't expect Android to be updated at all. This more generally is part of why I'm hesitant about owning a DAP.

 

[drftr]

If you're not using their latest flagship

But that's the thing. It is their latest flagship, but is left behind software-wise by offerings 70-ish % cheaper. If the price was roughly in the same ball park I would absolutely agree with you.

But then again, I only play local files to avoid situations like these.

drftr

 

[SCARTER]

@Gold Fox
I managed to find more time to listen to music over the weekend. Unfortunately, after an hour of listening, the problem I described earlier reappeared. Every third musical composition began to play with a crackling/crunching sound. I was very upset.

After an hour of listening to music (in class A), the player got very hot, not only from the audio side of the motherboard, but also from the USB Type-C port. Heating most likely also has an impact on this problem.

In general, I'm waiting for a response/fix from the player developer. All this really ruins the mood, you immediately stop enjoying listening to music, you only get irritation.

 

[shimigg]

@Gold Fox
I managed to find more time to listen to music over the weekend. Unfortunately, after an hour of listening, the problem I described earlier reappeared. Every third musical composition began to play with a crackling/crunching sound. I was very upset.

After an hour of listening to music (in class A), the player got very hot, not only from the audio side of the motherboard, but also from the USB Type-C port. Heating most likely also has an impact on this problem.

In general, I'm waiting for a response/fix from the player developer. All this really ruins the mood, you immediately stop enjoying listening to music, you only get irritation.

Anyone else having this issue ?

 

[SCARTER]

@shimigg
My post with the problem. Only one person, not counting me, responded about a similar problem. Right after my post. We just temporarily solved this problem differently.

 

[shimigg]

@shimigg
My post with the problem. Only one person, not counting me, responded about a similar problem. Right after my post. We just temporarily solved this problem differently.

I'm considering of getting the N6iii so user experience and issues are relevant

 

[littlexx26]

Not to defend Cayin's decision here, but it kinda seems like all DAP manufacturers are like this? The newest device is the only one that gets any attention or updates. They often promise software updates to other devices that never come. If you're not using their latest flagship, don't expect anything to be updated, and don't expect Android to be updated at all. This more generally is part of why I'm hesitant about owning a DAP.

hiby has new firmware released in March this year for rs8, which released in Nov 2022. and the firmware is for roon ready and other bugs fix and sound quality improvement

 

[Gold Fox]

@Gold Fox
I managed to find more time to listen to music over the weekend. Unfortunately, after an hour of listening, the problem I described earlier reappeared. Every third musical composition began to play with a crackling/crunching sound. I was very upset.

After an hour of listening to music (in class A), the player got very hot, not only from the audio side of the motherboard, but also from the USB Type-C port. Heating most likely also has an impact on this problem.

In general, I'm waiting for a response/fix from the player developer. All this really ruins the mood, you immediately stop enjoying listening to music, you only get irritation.

Sorry to hear that... I’ll check in with our engineering team right away and see what they think might be going on here. Once I hear back from them, I’ll let you know.

 

[WDitters]

hiby has new firmware released in March this year for rs8, which released in Nov 2022. and the firmware is for roon ready and other bugs fix and sound quality improvement

I guess it would help putting things into perspective here

- Android version updates (7->9->12->13 etc): Contrary to Phone manufacturers, these version updates typically are only considered when there are significant improvements to the way an Android device processes audio and if substantial gains can be achieved. The decision whether or not to offer these depend on the amount of development and testing the audio functionality are worthwhile in the DAPs life cycle. As far as I know only Android 10 offered such improvement and would theoretically warrant an OS upgrade. And by the time that 10 came out, most devices with Android 7 or 9 were already at the end of their lifecycle anyway.

- Android current version updates (within the DAP’s current OS version): These are typically offered by most leading DAP manufacturers and handle topics such as ROON compatibility… Just to set the record straight here, most leading DAP manufacturers actually DO offer these during the lifecycle of their products.. Just look at Hiby who last week released an new to their RS8 which is already some 3+ years old

- Android security fixes: This last type of update could potentially be a point of contention.. the question “Should DAP manufacturers also implement all security fixes that are made available by Google?” is a valid one … Condering their use case however (a DAP is not a Smartphone) I would argue against that. DAPs are manufactured in such low volumes compared to Smartphones that DAP manufacturers simply do not have the capacity to keep churning out security fixes for their devices. And most DAP users don’t load all their email, office and financial apps onto their DAPs anyway, therefore making the discussion somewhat moot ..Instead I have simply ensured that no private information is found on my DAPs and have set Google Play to require a password every time I download something from the Play Store.

At the end of the day we should also consider that while every new generation of smartphone introduces at least a new SOC and often all kinds of other hardware innovations, a typical DAP does not. The hardware base under all DAPs has roughly remained the same for almost 5 years now .. So I’d prefer seeing manufacturers invest their efforts into improving the audio side rather than the operating system side

@Gold Fox Anything you would wish to add from Cayin’s perspective?

 

[batracom]

Has anyone tried to connect the Sennheiser HD800/s headphones to the CS201 module? Will it drive it properly? I notice that the output power in balanced mode is roughly that of the Hugo 2, so it should be possible, am wondering whether the CS201 can drive them with a certain authority. Thanks!

 

[Gold Fox]

@Gold Fox Anything you would wish to add from Cayin’s perspective?

One thing I with to add: when would you report for duty at Cayin

Jokes aside, I’d say you’ve summed things up very well. The core reason, really, always comes back to one thing: sound quality, as I mentioned in Post #601, Andy also explained on this in much earlier discussions.

On the other hand, when we update a DAP designed around Android 9 to Android 11, like what you suggested here, we cannot guarantee that we can maintain the audio quality or sound signature of the DAP after we migrated to the new Android System. There are a lot of compromises when you exercise that kind of system migration. Cayin didn't use a standard Android system in our DAP, we mod the system heavily and performed a lot of tricks to bypass the limitations of the original Android system so that it can sound the way we wanted, and fine-tune our circuitry to work with that.

For sure, there are some practical concerns — quite in line with what you mentioned, and I think you’ve covered them very well. Many thanks for the explanation!

 

[WDitters]

One thing I with to add: when would you report for duty at Cayin

Feel free to PM me