Cayin N6ii, Unlimited Possibilities: a fully modularized smart DAP
Feb 18, 2021 at 3:16 PM Post #5,536 of 5,967

TomKorn

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To answer my own question :D. I found UAPP to be excellent performer on C6ii + A02. The only thing I did was to enable “bit perfect”. The app automatically switched on “high res driver”.

Immediately I was able to hear more airiness and clarity with UAPP and 16/44.1khz Scarlet book standard files. The upper frequencies and extensions are retrieved with better energy, textures, extensions and sparkles than the Cayin/Hiby app.
I wanted to buy UAPP. Problem is, it only works when you're online as it constantly checks for the license. I asked the developer about this and they were kinda coy about the issue.

Has that changed? Can you use it offline?
 
Feb 18, 2021 at 3:33 PM Post #5,537 of 5,967

Whitigir

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I wanted to buy UAPP. Problem is, it only works when you're online as it constantly checks for the license. I asked the developer about this and they were kinda coy about the issue.

Has that changed? Can you use it offline?
I have been using it offline ? I have not encountered this issues yet
 
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Feb 18, 2021 at 9:33 PM Post #5,538 of 5,967

111MilesToGo

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Currently using Sandisk 1TB Extreme Pro with A02 and having no problem scanning the Lib in both Hiby or Cayin. It is kinda nice to have these 2 apps using similar layouts

They are the same app. Cayin app just has a custom skin. 😉

I now use the HiBy music app - it has a few more tools for customisation. The Cayin music app is more end user friendly. Musically they are the same. It's a waste of storage to use both!

I wonder if there are other apps that would work well with N6ii. I had not been much into the Android for a while

To answer my own question :D. I found UAPP to be excellent performer on C6ii + A02. The only thing I did was to enable “bit perfect”. The app automatically switched on “high res driver”.

Immediately I was able to hear more airiness and clarity with UAPP and 16/44.1khz Scarlet book standard files. The upper frequencies and extensions are retrieved with better energy, textures, extensions and sparkles than the Cayin/Hiby app.

I wanted to buy UAPP. Problem is, it only works when you're online as it constantly checks for the license. I asked the developer about this and they were kinda coy about the issue.

Has that changed? Can you use it offline?

I have been using it offline ? I have not encountered this issues yet
Regarding Android music player apps to run on the N6ii: Following the recent discussion about whether MQA is done properly on our DAP, I did a comprehensive study on what the various apps are doing to replay the various audio digitization (PCM, DSD) and encoding / file formats (FLAC, MQA). I used the Android Debug Bridge from my PC to the N6ii, and I looked at the AudioFlinger outputs (the last element in the Android audio stack before alsa which is the lowest one). I hope my way of diagnosing is good, and that my results are trustworthy.

In short, I could prove that three apps are doing everything they do correctly, i.e. in a bit-perfect way: Cayin, HiBy, and Neutron. UAPP does PCM alright, but it simply cannot do native DSD; I found it to always fall back to D2P, as confirmed then by the developer. I didn‘t check PowerAmp. I also looked at the original Qobuz and Tidal apps, both in streaming and offlining.

So, for me, Neutron has become the go-to app to replay audio stored locally on my N6ii and on devices on my home WiFi network. Fortunately, Neutron is also way more stable than UAPP when playing from my home WiFi. A matter of taste: The UI of Neutron is often seen as too complicated, but anybody who did master foobar2000 on Windows will master Neutron easily.

I found no issues with the original Tidal app, except for the discussions (cf. above, started by @Taz777) on how MQA should be handled.

With the original Qobuz app, I stumbled over two serious issues, both of which I brought up to the Qobuz customer support. The current status of these inquiries is ”we have forwarded your issue to the developers, they will follow up on it“ - hmm, a well-known answer. Hope for the best... The two issues are:
(1) From AudioFlinger, I just see 16 bit resolution only, but never 24 bits. OMG! This holds for a whole lot of HiRes files, both in streaming and offlining. Of course, I made as sure as I can that my subscription and my app settings are good. I hope this matter will get resolved by Qobuz at some point in the near future!
(2) For offlining, Qobuz has opted to use a chunk file method (similar to YouTube): A track gets split into 2MB chunks, plus encryption. Since I offlined approx. 100 albums in various qualities from CD to all sorts of HiRes, I have 50,000 chunk files on my SD card (SanDisk ExtremePro 1 TB). Any action that makes the N6ii Android read in that storage space is an unbearable burden on the N6ii. First, I am used now to switching it on 1/2 hour before I want to listen to music (any music, not just Qobuz!), since the first read of that particular directory on the SD card takes that long. Second, the Qobuz App takes a certain time to gather an offlined album and track. Third, skipping forward or backward within a track and from track to track takes unpleasantly long, too.

So, to all of you out there: I can provide many more details on my investigation and results - just let me know, maybe via PM. And it would be great if someone could jump in, do the same or different diagnoses, and confirm or reject my findings. Some findings I mentioned are indeed VERY serious as far as I understand matters. Any feedback is highly welcome, in public or via PM.
 
Feb 18, 2021 at 10:01 PM Post #5,541 of 5,967

Whitigir

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Conversion of DSD to PCM, the most undesirable way of playing DSD. Not to be confused with DoP (DSD over PCM), which wraps the DSD stream in PCM-type bytes; that is bit-perfect.
I see, oh well, I prefer DSD Native. Now you mentioned it, I really can’t play Native dsd with UAPP....damn it !!! So Neutron is an alternative then ? I will check it out
 
Feb 19, 2021 at 1:06 PM Post #5,549 of 5,967

111MilesToGo

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Regarding Android music player apps to run on the N6ii: Following the recent discussion about whether MQA is done properly on our DAP, I did a comprehensive study on what the various apps are doing to replay the various audio digitization (PCM, DSD) and encoding / file formats (FLAC, MQA). I used the Android Debug Bridge from my PC to the N6ii, and I looked at the AudioFlinger outputs (the last element in the Android audio stack before alsa which is the lowest one). I hope my way of diagnosing is good, and that my results are trustworthy.

In short, I could prove that three apps are doing everything they do correctly, i.e. in a bit-perfect way: Cayin, HiBy, and Neutron. UAPP does PCM alright, but it simply cannot do native DSD; I found it to always fall back to D2P, as confirmed then by the developer. I didn‘t check PowerAmp. I also looked at the original Qobuz and Tidal apps, both in streaming and offlining.

So, for me, Neutron has become the go-to app to replay audio stored locally on my N6ii and on devices on my home WiFi network. Fortunately, Neutron is also way more stable than UAPP when playing from my home WiFi. A matter of taste: The UI of Neutron is often seen as too complicated, but anybody who did master foobar2000 on Windows will master Neutron easily.

I found no issues with the original Tidal app, except for the discussions (cf. above, started by @Taz777) on how MQA should be handled.

With the original Qobuz app, I stumbled over two serious issues, both of which I brought up to the Qobuz customer support. The current status of these inquiries is ”we have forwarded your issue to the developers, they will follow up on it“ - hmm, a well-known answer. Hope for the best... The two issues are:
(1) From AudioFlinger, I just see 16 bit resolution only, but never 24 bits. OMG! This holds for a whole lot of HiRes files, both in streaming and offlining. Of course, I made as sure as I can that my subscription and my app settings are good. I hope this matter will get resolved by Qobuz at some point in the near future!
(2) For offlining, Qobuz has opted to use a chunk file method (similar to YouTube): A track gets split into 2MB chunks, plus encryption. Since I offlined approx. 100 albums in various qualities from CD to all sorts of HiRes, I have 50,000 chunk files on my SD card (SanDisk ExtremePro 1 TB). Any action that makes the N6ii Android read in that storage space is an unbearable burden on the N6ii. First, I am used now to switching it on 1/2 hour before I want to listen to music (any music, not just Qobuz!), since the first read of that particular directory on the SD card takes that long. Second, the Qobuz App takes a certain time to gather an offlined album and track. Third, skipping forward or backward within a track and from track to track takes unpleasantly long, too.

So, to all of you out there: I can provide many more details on my investigation and results - just let me know, maybe via PM. And it would be great if someone could jump in, do the same or different diagnoses, and confirm or reject my findings. Some findings I mentioned are indeed VERY serious as far as I understand matters. Any feedback is highly welcome, in public or via PM.
So my post on my Qobuz issue (2) - usability hampered by the Qobuz way of storing offline contents - is up on the Official Qobuz Issues Thread at Audiophile Style:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...issues-thread/?do=findComment&comment=1110738
Let‘s see.
 
Feb 20, 2021 at 3:31 AM Post #5,550 of 5,967

Taz777

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Listening to my local FLAC files, I have noticed something quite odd in terms of sound quality. The HiBy music app and the Cayin music app are ‘system’ apps so benefit from DTA where the Android audio mixer is bypassed and no resamplimg takes place. I have noticed quite poor audio quality from the HiBy music app, compared to UAPP. In fact, the audio quality is so bad that I thought my headphones were damaged!

The headphones I’m using are Beyerdynamic T5p Gen2, which are quite good headphones.

When playing through the HiBy music app, the music sounds garbled and the timing is all wrong. The mids and highs are distorted.

I don’t get this problem when playing exactly the same FLAC files through UAPP.

If anyone has lossless files in their micro-SD card and has UAPP then could you do a sound quality comparison between the HiBy music app and UAPP please?

I’m going to clear the cache on the HiBy app and retest, and also try my Xelento IEMs to double-check this issue.
 

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