[fish1050]

@fish1050, well then, let those who have the N3 Pro, now more than two years old, respond...

I can only go by my 40 years of experience working with electronics. I probably would enjoy the hobby more if I was a teacher or an accountant and not knowing what I know. Knowing what I know and experiencing what I have with electronics some components have a higher failure rate than others and tubes are among them based on that experience.

What is likely the most asked question on these forums, is the battery user replaceable and can I get the battery replaced out of warranty. People ask because it is the most likely component to fail on a DAP. I am simply asking what are my options for another component that can potentially fail early. Heat is the biggest enemy to electronics so components that get hotter are more likely to fail.

You don't have to agree with my opinions but I should have the right to ask if I am concerned about it and my hard earned money will be used to purchase the product.

Edit: regardless of why I am asking the question it is a simple question to answer. Either it is Yes the tubes are user replaceable , or No the tubes are not user replaceable. Once I know the answer I can decide what to do next.

 

[magicalmouse]

@fish1050, well then, let those who have the N3 Pro, now more than two years old, respond...

I have had the n3pro for 3 years and it still works well with reasonable battery life, my one reservation is that the software is not as flexible as e.g. foobar (android)

d

 

[jotaerre]

(...)
What is likely the most asked question on these forums, is the battery user replaceable and can I get the battery replaced out of warranty. People ask because it is the most likely component to fail on a DAP. I am simply asking what are my options for another component that can potentially fail early. Heat is the biggest enemy to electronics so components that get hotter are more likely to fail.
(...)

Of course your question is very valid and I hope it does not create confusion on my part. But let's keep in mind that we are not talking about values over $1500-3000. If we transfer this to the world of smartphones, we will see that they are champions in heat accumulation and do not cause failures or breakdowns (I never had any). Today these cell phones have an average price of $500 and even so sales are above this amount, and if we transfer it to the world of iPhone, you know... Who remembers the number of cell phones they have bought in their life?, I certainly don't. That being said, my biggest wish now is for someone to answer your concerns.

A cordial greeting.

 

[fish1050]

Of course your question is very valid and I hope it does not create confusion on my part. But let's keep in mind that we are not talking about values over $1500-3000. If we transfer this to the world of smartphones, we will see that they are champions in heat accumulation and do not cause failures or breakdowns (I never had any). Today these cell phones have an average price of $500 and even so sales are above this amount, and if we transfer it to the world of iPhone, you know... Who remembers the number of cell phones they have bought in their life?, I certainly don't. That being said, my biggest wish now is for someone to answer your concerns.

A cordial greeting.

Yeah my concern is about potential failure of a component in the device, not necessarily the entire device if the component can be replaced. I am talking about close to $900 for a DAP with tax which is still alot of money. As for a smartphone my current android phone I have had for 4 years now and no plans to replace it. In fact I plan to ditch smartphones altogether once I retire as I don't need to carry a brick in my pocket anymore.

Smartphones have solid state components and in the case of the N3 Ultra we are talking about vacuum tubes which are a different animal as they are not solid state and subject to heat failure.

 

[wazzupi]

Yeah my concern is about potential failure of a component in the device, not necessarily the entire device if the component can be replaced. I am talking about close to $900 for a DAP with tax which is still alot of money. As for a smartphone my current android phone I have had for 4 years now and no plans to replace it. In fact I plan to ditch smartphones altogether once I retire as I don't need to carry a brick in my pocket anymore.

Smartphones have solid state components and in the case of the N3 Ultra we are talking about vacuum tubes which are a different animal as they are not solid state and subject to heat failure.

You spent close to $900 on n3 ultra !?! What

 

[Andykong]

Are the tubes user replaceable? JAN6418 tubes have an estimated life span best case scenario of 1 to 3 year based on a quick google search. Assuming you use the N3Ultra heavily and you only get 1 year out of a tube how hard are they to replace if at all by the end user? Looking at the diagrams on how the tubes are protected it does not look that easy. I certainly wouldn't want to have to ship it to China to get the tubes replaced. You can get the replacement tubes on ebay for are about $6.00 US so not expensive to buy but how difficult to replace is the question.

The more I read the more I am intrigued by the sound quality users are reporting but a potentially limited lifespan is not appealing. Given I have gotten 2 to 4 years out of most of my DAP's including my A55.

That is not what I found and who is to say you won't get a lemon tube in your DAP. I actually grew up with tube amps and pre-amps and my experience is not far off from 1 to 2 years. I have had tubes go after 6 months and some have lasted a year or so at best. Not to say Andy is lying but these are old tubes that aren't manufactured anymore from what I understand.

All I want to know is can I replace them myself, for piece of mind if nothing else as these are certainly not unbreakable. Is Cayin prepared to guarantee that all the tubes will last at least 10,000 hours? My guess is NO so what are the options if they die earlier than projected?

I circle back to any earlier idea I had of getting a cheaper DAP and picking up a desktop tube amp with easily replaceable tubes. When I am at home connect my DAP to the tube amp and live with the sound from the DAP alone when traveling. The N3 Ultra will cost me over $800.00 CDN so I want some protection and piece of mind that I will a recourse if I need to replace the tubes.

Unfortunately, the JAN6418 is not user replaceable, you need to send the DAP back to your dealer or to us (China) to replace the vacuum tubes.

For the record, we do run into JAN6418 occasionally, but most of them happened on the first month of ownership, a small number of them in the first three months, so they were all covered by warranty, technically. We attributed these to logistic and/or manufacturing failures. In our repair track record, the JAN6418 in N3Pro is as reliable and long-lasting as a lot of solid-state components we have used in our DAP.

In case these "claims" remain uncertified claims from a manufacturer, may I suggest you drop by the N3Pro thread and ask if there is a high percentage of JAN6418 failure among our N3Pro DAP users? For the record, the N3Pro was launched back in early August 2020, we have sold more than two thousand units of N3Pro in the first month, and a lot more by the end of 2020, so you'll run into a lot of users who owned N3Pro for 3-4 years already in the N3Pro official thread. If the "JAN6418 tubes have an estimated life span best case scenario of 1 to 3 year", we should have thousands of N3Pro users having trouble with their JAN6418 in N3Pro, and Cayin should be very busy repairing the N3Pro by now. Maybe this will provide counter-arguments regarding your "claim" from literature research that the JAN6418 is a high-risk component?

 

[Andykong]

You spent close to $900 on n3 ultra !?! What

Maybe the Canadian dollar? what is the exchange rate of US$ to Canadian $?

 

[Crowcore]

I apologize if this isn't the right place for this question. Please let me know if that is the case.

I will receive the N3Ultra & ATH-WP900 tomorrow. I would like to know which voltage level to select on the 4.4mm BAL output between High (4.2V), Mid (3.2V) and Low (2.0V). I'm worried selecting the wrong one will break the headphones (38 ohms, 100 dB/mW sensitivity, max. input power 1000 mw). Is there a danger of this happening or is that impossible? I'm new to this field.

Based on the specifications, what would be the right choice? (same question to pair E1010 earphones by 1More to 3.5mm SE (High (2.1V), Mid (1.6V) and Low (1.0V)?).

Thank you for your help.

 

[Andykong]

I apologize if this isn't the right place for this question. Please let me know if that is the case.

I will receive the N3Ultra & ATH-WP900 tomorrow. I would like to know which voltage level to select on the 4.4mm BAL output between High (4.2V), Mid (3.2V) and Low (2.0V). I'm worried selecting the wrong one will break the headphones (38 ohms, 100 dB/mW sensitivity, max. input power 1000 mw). Is there a danger of this happening or is that impossible? I'm new to this field.

Based on the specifications, what would be the right choice? (same question to pair E1010 earphones by 1More to 3.5mm SE (High (2.1V), Mid (1.6V) and Low (1.0V)?).

Thank you for your help.

I assume you'll connect the WP900 with the 4.4mm or 3.5mm headphone outputs of N3Ultra, in that case, the numbers you quoted are not relevant, these are the rated output level of LINE OUT, not phone output.

From what you have described, I believe you are concerned about the appropriate GAIN setting when you use the phone output of N3Ultra. In short, you are safe to use one of the three gain settings with whatever headphone or IEM as long as you always start at low volume and turn the volume up gradually after you hear the music played through your headphones or IEM. Yes, some headphones will work better with a particular gain setting, the worst-case scenario here is high background noise or a slightly aggressive or laid-back presentation according to your personal preference. You won't damage your headphones/IEM because of that, and you won't damage your DAP because of that.

 

[ChangTan]

Is adding a "Album Artist" category something we should be looking forward too? Or is it not achievable?
Coz right now the folder category is the only one i can use without my music scatter all around on album with Various Artists. Plus the Folder category does not even have the side scrolling alphabet for quick scrolling.

@Andykong any thoughts?

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong any thoughts?

No comment, I have forwarded the request to our engineer. The software team will evaluate the information I collected, I am not part of the decision-making process. I have no idea whether this is technically feasible, or the resources required to implement the feature.

 

[ChangTan]

No comment, I have forwarded the request to our engineer. The software team will evaluate the information I collected, I am not part of the decision-making process. I have no idea whether this is technically feasible, or the resources required to implement the feature.

Although no new information on the matter, at least it is a response.
Now i know not to bother you anymore on this subject.
Cheers.

 

[Andykong]

Although no new information on the matter, at least it is a response.
Now i know not to bother you anymore on this subject.
Cheers.

You are always welcome and you can ask again anytime. Unfortunately, this is not within my scope or jurisdiction. If the software team requires additional information, I'll try my best to explain and put the request into context, but there is much I can do other than that.

 

[CarinTorment]

How does the N3 ultra compare against the Sony Wm1am2?

 

[Andykong]

The Announcement of N3Ultra Firmware v1.2


New Functions and System Optimization

1. Add a new double-click wake-up function;
2. Rectify the problem of the left and right channels reversed during DSD512 playback;
3. Other optimization and bugs fixed

Firmware ULR: https://en.cayin.cn/drive/9/18/643.html

Firmware Update

Cayin will release firmware updates to enhance and optimize N3Ultra as deemed required. Users can update the firmware through local update. To manually download the firmware, please visit the SUPPORT center on our official website.


A Kind Reminder to N3Ultra Firmware Upgrade

• Each version of firmware might contain minor differences, consumer please decide on your own accord whether you need to update the firmware of your N3Ultra Digital Audio Player.
• Under normal circumstances, firmware upgrades will not cause any damage to user information, but Cayin cannot exclude the possibility of upgrade failure due to malfunction or any other reason. For these reasons, we strongly suggest you remove all storage devices inserted into the DAP before you perform the firmware upgrade.
• The N3Ultra firmware cannot be used in other products, and the firmware from other products cannot be used in N3Ultra

Attention

• Please make sure the N3Ultra has not less than 30% battery power, otherwise please charge up the player before you proceed to a firmware update.
• Please make sure your TF card has more than 2GB of storage before the firmware update.

Firmware Update Procedures

1. Download the latest firmware update package from the Support Center of Cayin website, please select “Personal Audio” on this page.
2. You should receive a compressed file (cayin_N3Ultra_xxx_xxxxxxx_8.1_user_update.zip) for the N3Ultra firmware update. DO NOT decompress the zip file.
3. Copy the firmware file into the root directory of your TF card, and insert the TF card into N3Ultra before you proceed to the next step.
4. Select "System Settings" on the main menu, at the Setting menu page select “System” and then select "FOTA* Updates” to enter the firmware update interface;
5. Select “Local updates” in the System Update screen.
6. Proceed to the root directory of your TF card, then select the firmware file.
7. The system will remind you that the device will be restarted during the firmware update, select “OK” in the confirmation window, and the system will start the firmware upgrade process;
8. Do not operate the device during a firmware update. After the upgrade is complete, the system will reboot automatically and you can use the DAP when the device resumes from reboot.
9. Please delete the firmware file from the TF card after you have completed the firmware update process

* FOTA stands for Firmware Over-The-Air