[Bullishbear]

Hi, for the power issue you can use the provided ha2se micro to micro usb and use a small converter micro usb to usb type c. It works without draining power from n3.

The other issue is when I using n3 as a transport with ha2se as dac amp, I can still adjust the volume through n3 and when connected heaphone through n3 h/o it still produces sound. So this mean its not a bit perfect because the signal is not bypassed and go through n3 internal amplification.

 

[Andykong]

I agree on the font size, especially since my reading prescription is not correct at the moment. I end up using a magnifying glass sometimes.

There is an option in the settings called Folder operation. Mine was on. I set it to off and rebooted the dap (just in case it might be necessary) and now the album stops at the end. If I want to burn in something I will just turn that back on so the the music will continue on as before.

I hope Andy can push font size feature on future update.. It will win many costumer on all age

We have raised this requirement previously and it has been acknowledged, the plan was to increase the font "slightly" on all table-based screen. I think they are working on that already, I'll find out if this can be before next firmware release.

 

[Andykong]

Hi, for the power issue you can use the provided ha2se micro to micro usb and use a small converter micro usb to usb type c. It works without draining power from n3.

The other issue is when I using n3 as a transport with ha2se as dac amp, I can still adjust the volume through n3 and when connected heaphone through n3 h/o it still produces sound. So this mean its not a bit perfect because the signal is not bypassed and go through n3 internal amplification.

That is digital volume of AK4490, the signal is NOT amplified. We'll change the digital output to native volume later, again this is an on-going modification that we promised previously, I'll give it a push again.

 

[VIPUL PATEL]

I have the HA2SE which I would like to use with my N3 and Shanling M1 but the HA2SE just drains their batteries. Can you expand on your solution or preferably draw a diagra as I don't understand.

Following cable would do the job:. Red is the Power line and Black is the Ground line.
I have not tested the solution provided by Bullishbear, but looks be a simpler solution.

 

[Bullishbear]

That is digital volume of AK4490, the signal is NOT amplified. We'll change the digital output to native volume later, again this is an on-going modification that we promised previously, I'll give it a push again.

Thanks for your reply, so that means is it normal for the headphone out still produces sounds when external dac is connected through usb out.

 

[ridwan.a.wijaya]

We have raised this requirement previously and it has been acknowledged, the plan was to increase the font "slightly" on all table-based screen. I think they are working on that already, I'll find out if this can be before next firmware release.

Thank you for your respon, this is my first Cayin DAP..

Btw almost sell my Cayin because of lack understanding about Digital filter, find it later and glad I didnt, after reading all page, no one share this, so it might help others user.

 

[chinmie]

Might be useful for other user on the same scenario as me:
i am using the N3 (as bluetooth receiver for spotify) in stack with the Fiio E17K (as amp and EQ) . for some times i was using the line out mode of the N3, but find it a hassle to always have to switching to line out mode every time i turn on the N3 (i requested a firmware tweak to allow it, but refused for what they said was safety precaution).

so now i set my unit to highest gain mode, and set the volume to 84 (this is to me the same volume as the line out mode). it sounded fairly the same to my ears. now i don't have to be bothered of setting up every single time i turn it on.

to me it is amusing, because when i requested the firmware tweak, they said it can't be provided because of safety precautions (even when i said i understand and I'd take the risk) , but from what i did, it has exactly the same outcome and was there all along )
so to other user using them in stacks, i hope this could help

 

[VIPUL PATEL]

Might be useful for other user on the same scenario as me:
i am using the N3 (as bluetooth receiver for spotify) in stack with the Fiio E17K (as amp and EQ) . for some times i was using the line out mode of the N3, but find it a hassle to always have to switching to line out mode every time i turn on the N3 (i requested a firmware tweak to allow it, but refused for what they said was safety precaution).

so now i set my unit to highest gain mode, and set the volume to 84 (this is to me the same volume as the line out mode). it sounded fairly the same to my ears. now i don't have to be bothered of setting up every single time i turn it on.

to me it is amusing, because when i requested the firmware tweak, they said it can't be provided because of safety precautions (even when i said i understand and I'd take the risk) , but from what i did, it has exactly the same outcome and was there all along )
so to other user using them in stacks, i hope this could help

I think (correct me if wrong), line out bypasses the internal AMP section of N3 and is just analog output of the DAC chip, which is not the case with the setup/workaround you mentioned. Dual amplification is happening with your setup.

 

[chinmie]

I think (correct me if wrong), line out bypasses the internal AMP section of N3 and is just analog output of the DAC chip, which is not the case with the setup/workaround you mentioned. Dual amplification is happening with your setup.

that's exactly what thought too. i much prefer line out mode, but the hassle really annoyed me..this is a workaround that is available to me, because cayin don't trust the customer to be responsible to take their own risk by limiting a request of feature they know they could provide

 

[VIPUL PATEL]

that's exactly what thought too. i much prefer line out mode, but the hassle really annoyed me..this is a workaround that is available to me, because cayin don't trust the customer to be responsible to take their own risk by limiting a request of feature they know they could provide

In that case, the sound quality will suffer by the weakest link in your setup chain "N3 DAC -> N3 amp -> External Amp". If that happens to be N3 Amp, its a loss.

 

[DBaldock9]

If you want to know what @Andykong has said about the N3 Line Out, all you have to do is Search This Thread for "Line Out".

I did that for you, and here's one of Andy's posts - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-134#post-13506105

 

[Andykong]

Might be useful for other user on the same scenario as me:
i am using the N3 (as bluetooth receiver for spotify) in stack with the Fiio E17K (as amp and EQ) . for some times i was using the line out mode of the N3, but find it a hassle to always have to switching to line out mode every time i turn on the N3 (i requested a firmware tweak to allow it, but refused for what they said was safety precaution).

so now i set my unit to highest gain mode, and set the volume to 84 (this is to me the same volume as the line out mode). it sounded fairly the same to my ears. now i don't have to be bothered of setting up every single time i turn it on.

to me it is amusing, because when i requested the firmware tweak, they said it can't be provided because of safety precautions (even when i said i understand and I'd take the risk) , but from what i did, it has exactly the same outcome and was there all along )
so to other user using them in stacks, i hope this could help

I think (correct me if wrong), line out bypasses the internal AMP section of N3 and is just analog output of the DAC chip, which is not the case with the setup/workaround you mentioned. Dual amplification is happening with your setup.

@chinmie is doing the right thing if he is not using the phone out of N3 at all. This actually is a good idea for those who want to use N3 with desktop or portable amplifier, it is not identical to the line out but close enough.

The line out of N3 is a fixed 1.0 Vrms output from headphone out, it does not bypass the headphone amplification Op-Amp, you can argue that the line out is not complete clean and will undergoes double amplification, but this the best we can do given the space limitation inside the N3, PCB is so crowded that we simply can't squeeze a dedicated line out signal path into it, and to do it right, we cannot use the DAC output as line out directly, we need to add a dedicated Op-Amp after the DAC output, this is what we are doing in the next DAP.

1.0 Vrms is a relatively low output for line out, the standard line out should be 2.0 Vrms. We have to keep this low value because we want to make sure the line out is clean enough even after double amplification. A lot of users are happy with the quality of "pseudo" line out from N3 and consider them very "useable". In fact, there are a lot of more expensive DAP adopted this fixed headphone output approach with their line out feature, so I suggest we always check the feature with your own ears instead of assuming the result based on a generic approach.

chinmie, sorry for unable to facilitate your change request, we cannot customize our firmware for individual, once we do that, we'll need to expand our software team dramatically. All firmware change must be generically apply to all users, that's why we can't take your word as-is and change the firmware, we must consider the great majority which, according to our study, only a small percentage of N3 users will use Line out of N3 exclusively. Your patient and consideration is sincerely appreciated.

 

[chinmie]

In that case, the sound quality will suffer by the weakest link in your setup chain "N3 DAC -> N3 amp -> External Amp". If that happens to be N3 Amp, its a loss.

using this workaround, sound is fatter, and loses a little snap or have a duller attack of the music. i still prefer the line out sound into the e17k amp, but hey, until @Andykong or @CayinSupport can do anything about it, this is pretty much the best solution at the moment. concerning safety issue, this setup still gonna blow out earphones away if plugged directly, just the same as letting the line out setting default

 

[VIPUL PATEL]

@chinmie is doing the right thing if he is not using the phone out of N3 at all. This actually is a good idea for those who want to use N3 with desktop or portable amplifier.

The line out of N3 is a fixed 1.0 Vrms output from headphone out, it does not bypass the headphone amplification Op-Amp, you can argue that the line out is not complete clean and will undergoes double amplification, but this the best we can do given the space limitation inside the N3, PCB is so crowded that we simply can't squeeze a dedicated line out signal path into it, and to do it right, we cannot use the DAC output as line out directly, we need to add a dedicated Op-Amp after the DAC output, this is what we are doing in the next DAP.

1.0 Vrms is a relatively low output for line out, the standard line out should be 2.0 Vrms. We have to keep this low value because we want to make sure the line out is clean enough even after double amplification. A lot of users are happy with the quality of "pseudo" line out from N3 and consider them very "useable". In fact, there are a lot of more expensive DAP adopted this fixed headphone output approach with their line out feature, so I suggest we always check the feature with your own ears instead of assuming the result based on a generic approach.

Thanks Andykong for all the details. I always thought that N3 line-out is true line-out and not psuedo line-out (like you mentioned).

 

[Andykong]

Thank you for your respon, this is my first Cayin DAP..

Btw almost sell my Cayin because of lack understanding about Digital filter, find it later and glad I didnt, after reading all page, no one share this, so it might help others user.

I believe we have discussed the digital filters since the early days, and I do remember someone has shared this photo previously. In addition, @docholliday has written quite a lot of sharing regarding digital filters in N3. Maybe docholliday can chime in again.

https://www.head-fi.org/search/2972...=relevance&c[user][0]=471949&c[thread]=833932