Well, putting the advantages of tubes versus SS amps aside, the Bliss cost twice as much as the HA-3A. The Holo must have some advantages regardless the technology. The 3A seems to be one of the best if not the best 1.5K tube options right now while the Bliss seems to be one of the best if not the best SS amp today for 3K.
Cayin HA-3A, a Compact 6V6s Transformer-coupled Tube Amplifier
- Thread starter Andykong
- Start date
ye I am aware, love the amp and prefer it for most of my dynamics even owning Bliss. Just stating my experience with Caldera and the amp, since I believe there are many people who are going to get this ZMF in the near future when more reviews roll in.
rhart00
Head-Fier
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2011
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I listened to the caldera/ha-3a pairing for a while in the zmf room at canjam socal last fall and remember it being really great. But have never listened it with a bliss before.
Will try more tubes from my collection next days, maybe some tubes behave differently with Caldera than with Verite.
Do the Cayin HA-6A & 300b mk2 have better technical performance over the HA-3A or is it just more power as you climb up the ladder?
iamoneagain
Headphoneus Supremus
I was looking at a separate headphone amp for my Naim HE and have been reading up on the HA-3A. I have the Caldera and thinks it pairs wonderfully with the Naim HE, so I wouldn’t want to lose the dynamics while switching to a tube amp. I was also wondering if anyone has tried the 6A with the Caldera? But if they truly shine with the Holy Bliss, that’s something to consider as well. They already have nice euphoric mids, so they don’t to have the tube magic to make them shine but was sort of leaning toward tubes before seeing these posts.
Interesting, should they declare in upfront that they are not authorized? In your opinion, what is the best way to make this declaration?
Just a harmless joke.
For the record, only Cayin Official Store is authorized to sell Cayin products to oversee customers in Aliexpress, all other stores are unauthorized to sell Cayin products outside China.
On the other hand, Cayin Offical Store will not ship HA-3A to a US address, or any country in which we have a dealer lined up to sell HA-3A locally. This is a contractual requirement, when we signed up a dealer, they are entitled to sell within a geographical location and we are not supposed to compete with them in those areas.
Hello,Interesting, should they declare in upfront that they are not authorized? In your opinion, what is the best way to make this declaration?
Just a harmless joke.
For the record, only Cayin Official Store is authorized to sell Cayin products to oversee customers in Aliexpress, all other stores are unauthorized to sell Cayin products outside China.
On the other hand, Cayin Offical Store will not ship HA-3A to a US address, or any country in which we have a dealer lined up to sell HA-3A locally. This is a contractual requirement, when we signed up a dealer, they are entitled to sell within a geographical location and we are not supposed to compete with them in those areas.
I've been keeping in touch with this thread for a while now, given my interest in this amp. The following, is of course, my own personal point of view.
First off, thanks @Andykong to clarify on who's who on Aliexpress web store, regarding Cayin products.
My personal opinion is, if a seller advertises he has an item/product/service on sale, he should inform his would-be-customers, the aforementioned item is only available to specific global regions.
One can see that on Amazon. How many times have I found something I'd like to buy on Amazon, and to my dismay there comes the warning "product cannot be shipped to the selected address". It's their shipping policy. All good!!
Not to burn it in further, the Aliexpress page display this, as of now:
Ships to
United States
Shipping: $90.87
From China to United States via EMS
Estimated delivery on Apr 25
Don't make too much out of this. But they should be quite clear if the product they are selling, has any selling restrictions.
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While the basic framework remains the same across the HA-300MK2, HA-6A and HA-3A, they are very different amplifiers in practical use, and power is, in most cases, the least concern.
The choice of tubes makes a lot of difference when you compare 300B, the holy grail Direct Heated Triode (DHT) with 6V6, it's like comparing a v8 twin-turbo engine to an L4, by the way, I am referring to the difference in sound quality, not output power.
The HA-6A didn't have the blessing of DHT, but we make it up with versatility by offering a choice of EL34 and KT88, and that opened up a lot of tube rolling options. The choice of Triode vs ultralinear mode is also a unique and well-received feature among the three headphone amplfiers.
The output transformers also make a lot of difference. While we make all the transformers in these tube amplifiers, the size, the iron core of each transformer, the quality of wires, and the complexity of the windings makes a lot of difference.
Last but not least, when we are working with a bigger production budget, we can select premium components that will contribute to the final quality.
I know, I have shared a few pictures and appreciation towards the HA-3A in this thread already, but I feel this amplifier deserves a busier thread than it is right now, so here I am, boosting post frequency.
The HA-3A is my first proper tube amp. I had some hybrids before and tried some very entry level (OTL) tube amps, but nothing at this level (£1000+) or higher. Hybrids like the Liquid Platinum which I owned are simply not the 'real' deal when it comes to NOS tubes, and cheap OTLs for a few hundred bucks are mostly only good for destroying the 'renommé' (fame) of tube amplifiers; turning listeners, who appreciate technicalities away from tubes because of some hazy warmth and lack of refinement.
I owned quite a few solid state amps, mostly due to simplicity and practicalities. Bryston BHA-1, iFi Pro iCan og and Signature, Burson 3XP, GSX-Mini, Chord TT2, CMA-15, CMA-600i, Taurus MKII and so on. Some are better than others, but there is a generic theme going on between SS and tube amps. No SS amp will ever be able to reproduce the natural 3D staging, natural space and timbre of a similarly priced tube amp. Generally speaking SS amps will have the advantage of speed, dynamics and micro details, while tube amps in general will have the advantage of a more lifelike timbre and presentation; better and more effortless staging, spaciousness, a more natural and coherent experience. Take this generalization with a huge grain of salt though, as individual amplifiers can differ a lot.
Compared to all the solid state amplifiers I mentioned above, the HA-3A sounds the most natural, most spacious with the best imaging and has the most natural/lifelike timbre, even with stock tubes. I am still new to tube rolling, but already gained some valuable experience. I love good bass. To me the bass on the GSX-Mini and Bryston are superior to the bass on the iFi iCan og or Burson or TT2, because of the enhanced definition, extension and impact. On my journey in the audio world I realised, impactful bass is not everything, and in most cases good bass comes at a price of some compromises elsewhere.
Satisfying bass often comes with flat or closed-in upper frequencies which can be unnatural or boring. It is extremely rare to have good (weighty/impactful) bass and a natural, open, lifelike rendition of upper mids and treble.
The HA-3A has this natural upper-mid/treble presentation by default, it is the amplifier's nature. The HA-3A with stock tubes is already phenomenal, beating most SS amps for the price. It has to be said though, fellow bass lovers might find the amp in stock form lean, lacking low-end extension compared to some of these killer SS offerings I have mentioned. IMO the advantages of this stock tube presentation of the Cayin still easily outweigh the advantages of SS sound.
Pop some bassier NOS tubes in the 3A though and your perception might change for life. I tried RCA, Fivre and some other 6V6s, also have been experimenting with many 12AU7s in my 3A. The choice of tubes comes down to personal preference, but also to your system. Tubes are exceptional tools to fine-tune your system. What is neutral to me, might not be as neutral in your system. Tubes are like spices in your audio soup. Different tubes can reach the same result depending on the main ingredients in your own system. The DAC, the amp, headphones/speakers we use all define what tubes work the best, that is why it is difficult to give tube recommendations in general.
In my several years of audio journey I have never been happier with an amplifier, despite the sometimes frustrating and awkward experimenting with NOS tubes. Sometimes you don't know why there is some noise, other times there is no noise despite the exact same tube setup. There are 12AU7 tubes that match well with certain 6V6s while others don't. There is no logic in tubes and a lot depends on blind luck. The slight frustration to me is still worth it as I have never heard my system so enjoyable: lifelike, natural, sweet with good bass, spacious, 3D. Tangible with good timbre; present.
In this hobby there is always higher. Sometimes you just have to stop for a moment and enjoy what you have. 300B amplifiers or perhaps even the 6A would sound better than my current setup. I have upgraded my Pegasus R2R DAC with a Purple Fuse. This IMO elevates the DAC to next level R2R perhaps in the $2K DAC range. I also carefully chose all my cables. To me these all add to the overall picture, mostly enhancing clarity.
IMO a carefully fine-tuned system can easily sound better than another system for 50% more the price.
My main point is, the HA-3A is an exceptional amplifier, especially when you find your preferred NOS tube combination. Bass to me now is sublime with the Brimar 6V6 and Mullard CV4003 12AU7s. The natural and sweet tone with a well-extended and well-contoured bass is simply addictive with my Meze Elites right now. For the same or even for 50% more the price of my current system nothing comes close to my taste. Happy camper here.
Some 300B tube amps with higher-end R2R DACs (Aquarius/Terminator II) probably sound better than what I am listening right now, or perhaps I would even swap my system to a Holo May/Bliss stack, but that is out of my budget right now. So I am enjoying what I can afford at this moment.
The HA-3A is my first proper tube amp. I had some hybrids before and tried some very entry level (OTL) tube amps, but nothing at this level (£1000+) or higher. Hybrids like the Liquid Platinum which I owned are simply not the 'real' deal when it comes to NOS tubes, and cheap OTLs for a few hundred bucks are mostly only good for destroying the 'renommé' (fame) of tube amplifiers; turning listeners, who appreciate technicalities away from tubes because of some hazy warmth and lack of refinement.
I owned quite a few solid state amps, mostly due to simplicity and practicalities. Bryston BHA-1, iFi Pro iCan og and Signature, Burson 3XP, GSX-Mini, Chord TT2, CMA-15, CMA-600i, Taurus MKII and so on. Some are better than others, but there is a generic theme going on between SS and tube amps. No SS amp will ever be able to reproduce the natural 3D staging, natural space and timbre of a similarly priced tube amp. Generally speaking SS amps will have the advantage of speed, dynamics and micro details, while tube amps in general will have the advantage of a more lifelike timbre and presentation; better and more effortless staging, spaciousness, a more natural and coherent experience. Take this generalization with a huge grain of salt though, as individual amplifiers can differ a lot.
Compared to all the solid state amplifiers I mentioned above, the HA-3A sounds the most natural, most spacious with the best imaging and has the most natural/lifelike timbre, even with stock tubes. I am still new to tube rolling, but already gained some valuable experience. I love good bass. To me the bass on the GSX-Mini and Bryston are superior to the bass on the iFi iCan og or Burson or TT2, because of the enhanced definition, extension and impact. On my journey in the audio world I realised, impactful bass is not everything, and in most cases good bass comes at a price of some compromises elsewhere.
Satisfying bass often comes with flat or closed-in upper frequencies which can be unnatural or boring. It is extremely rare to have good (weighty/impactful) bass and a natural, open, lifelike rendition of upper mids and treble.
The HA-3A has this natural upper-mid/treble presentation by default, it is the amplifier's nature. The HA-3A with stock tubes is already phenomenal, beating most SS amps for the price. It has to be said though, fellow bass lovers might find the amp in stock form lean, lacking low-end extension compared to some of these killer SS offerings I have mentioned. IMO the advantages of this stock tube presentation of the Cayin still easily outweigh the advantages of SS sound.
Pop some bassier NOS tubes in the 3A though and your perception might change for life. I tried RCA, Fivre and some other 6V6s, also have been experimenting with many 12AU7s in my 3A. The choice of tubes comes down to personal preference, but also to your system. Tubes are exceptional tools to fine-tune your system. What is neutral to me, might not be as neutral in your system. Tubes are like spices in your audio soup. Different tubes can reach the same result depending on the main ingredients in your own system. The DAC, the amp, headphones/speakers we use all define what tubes work the best, that is why it is difficult to give tube recommendations in general.
In my several years of audio journey I have never been happier with an amplifier, despite the sometimes frustrating and awkward experimenting with NOS tubes. Sometimes you don't know why there is some noise, other times there is no noise despite the exact same tube setup. There are 12AU7 tubes that match well with certain 6V6s while others don't. There is no logic in tubes and a lot depends on blind luck. The slight frustration to me is still worth it as I have never heard my system so enjoyable: lifelike, natural, sweet with good bass, spacious, 3D. Tangible with good timbre; present.
In this hobby there is always higher. Sometimes you just have to stop for a moment and enjoy what you have. 300B amplifiers or perhaps even the 6A would sound better than my current setup. I have upgraded my Pegasus R2R DAC with a Purple Fuse. This IMO elevates the DAC to next level R2R perhaps in the $2K DAC range. I also carefully chose all my cables. To me these all add to the overall picture, mostly enhancing clarity.
IMO a carefully fine-tuned system can easily sound better than another system for 50% more the price.
My main point is, the HA-3A is an exceptional amplifier, especially when you find your preferred NOS tube combination. Bass to me now is sublime with the Brimar 6V6 and Mullard CV4003 12AU7s. The natural and sweet tone with a well-extended and well-contoured bass is simply addictive with my Meze Elites right now. For the same or even for 50% more the price of my current system nothing comes close to my taste. Happy camper here.
Some 300B tube amps with higher-end R2R DACs (Aquarius/Terminator II) probably sound better than what I am listening right now, or perhaps I would even swap my system to a Holo May/Bliss stack, but that is out of my budget right now. So I am enjoying what I can afford at this moment.
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TheMiddleSky
Headphoneus Supremus
Unlike solid state amps, that we can easily feel upgrade when move up the ladder, tube amp is like buying music instrument. Really depend on what kind of sound you after.
HA-6A and HA300 MK2, in general sound cleaner, more transparent and project bigger soundstage image compared to HA-3A. While HA-3A produce the warmest tone in lower mid to bass area, with less air on top. These impressions came from standard tubes, so different tubes may different result.
HA300 M2 is the most transparent sounding from all three amps while HA-6A has the airiest treble with widest soundstage from this group.
HA300 Mk2 is a softer sounding amp, feels more relax. HA-6A and HA-3A share the similar more energetic character.
I like the analogy and find it spot on.
LCMusicLover
Headphoneus Supremus
There's a 'lightly used' silver Cayin HA-3A for sale on eBay, Buy-it-now for $1200 w/ free shipping. Also has 'Make Offer' button.
Says 'stock tubes'. No idea about the seller, except that s/he has 100% eBay FB.
Says 'stock tubes'. No idea about the seller, except that s/he has 100% eBay FB.
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How much is it retail in America? I bought it for £1500 and I see on ZMF's website its listed at $1600 which equates to just over £1300.
https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/amps-dacs/products/cayin-ha-3a-amp
That is without tax which in the great and magnificent U.S. of A. varies from state to state. For some reason in the USA they don't include tax in prices. £1500 in Europe is a pretty good price. I paid £1420 for my brand new unit but I have seen 2000 euros+ prices on German/French/Swiss sites. Price varies a lot on the 3A depending on location.
