[dnd3241]

I used medium for the longest time, but high seems to give it a more dynamic sound. That’s purely my subjective experience though - I’ve no idea if that’s actually the case.

Another chap asked recently if high impedance increases the current and in turn gives it that increased sense of dynamics, but I don’t think they’ve had a response yet.

Any reason you prefer to use low or medium?

Simple..low and medium made me feel more comfortable , different set up got different result, Dac, pre-amp, cable, source, power supply....all these elements at the front parts can make a different story.

 

[jamato8]

First of all, let me clarify that Cayin will install all vacuum tubes properly and test the amplifier individually before we ship it out. we don't leave a gap purposively for whatever reason. As @Yggy has pointed out, we have installed specially formed polystyrene packaging between the vacuum tube and the protective cage, so the tubes should remain at their designated location securely. This is how we ship all our vacuum tube amplifiers, including the HA-1Amk2, HA-3A, HA-6A, HA-300MK2, and all the speaker amplifiers we produced over the years. From what we observed, dislocated vacuum tube happens fairly infrequently.

There is an alternative practice in the tube audio industry: instead of installing the vacuum tubes into the amplifier before shipping to customers, we'll remove the vacuum tubes after the QA process, pack the vacuum tubes on their own, and place the vacuum tubes in a separate box and store them at one of the corners in the shipping package. In our experience, this approach is more efficient and logistic friendly but requires the users to install the vacuum tubes when they unbox the amplifier.

Cayin evaluated both options thoroughly and decided to adopt our current practice simply because we want our users to enjoy our amplifier immediately after they take out the amplifier from the packing box. Installing a vacuum tube might sound straightforward to average tube amplifier users, but it can be tedious and "worrying" for newcomers. I still remember the day I handle my first vacuum tube amplifier back in early 2000, I had a hard time trying to figure out the correct direction of each vacuum tube before I pushed them into the tube socket. As a result of our decision to pre-install the vacuum tubes, we need to design our packaging with more foam, more space (bigger in volume), and more rigorous packing procedures.

I read your request ( #2,373 and #2,535) and will suggest Cayin enhance their HA-300MK2 user guide. The User Guide has a "How to Install Vacuum Tubes" section at the end of the guide already, so all they need to do is to add a reminder to check whether the vacuum tubes are properly installed by shaking the tubes mildly. If a particular tube is not as secure (or tightly installed) as another tube, then the user should take the tube out and reinstall the vacuum tube according to the instructions at the end of the user guide.

Odd that the tubes would back all the way out of the socket, both of the 300B on mine. Do I mind? No, you always check the tubes that they are seated correctly. But it would take some real G force to pull them both out of the sockets. I would just specify to make sure all tubes are correctly placed/seated, which I think is done but people aren't used to tubes, like they used to be, so for many there isn't the awareness. The packaging for the amp is excellent, IMO, though a back support would be nice for unpacking. lol

 

[dnd3241]

Im considering getting a ha300b mk2,never heard tubes before. I have a Moon 430had with susvara. What could i expect in sound change compared to my SS amp?

I do have Moon 430 and HA-300 MK2 with Susvara, yes.. that is quite a different between this two amp. Both are strong enough to kick the Susvara, you can feel the weight and mass density from Cayin is more than Moon but HA430 is more clean and fast. Beside Cayin and Moon I also got Audiovalve and Ferrum, all those can drive Susvara very well with almost 8W power output but I really enjoy the feeling from Cayin HA-300MK2.

 

[Erwinatm]

I used medium for the longest time, but high seems to give it a more dynamic sound. That’s purely my subjective experience though - I’ve no idea if that’s actually the case.

Another chap asked recently if high impedance increases the current and in turn gives it that increased sense of dynamics, but I don’t think they’ve had a response yet.

Any reason you prefer to use low or medium?

Yes. I prefer high setting. More dynamic, vocal slightly bigger and forward.

The difference is not as much from low to mid.

 

[jamato8]

Yes. I prefer high setting. More dynamic, vocal slightly bigger and forward.

The difference is not as much from low to mid.

In high gain setting the signal is not attenuated so you are getting a direct feed from the amp. It should be more dynamic and I most always prefer high gain, even with my daps when using IEMs. But on this amp, the match is for the average resistance of the headphone being used, to match the output transformer to the headphones. I use what sounds best.

 

[Erwinatm]

First of all, let me clarify that Cayin will install all vacuum tubes properly and test the amplifier individually before we ship it out. we don't leave a gap purposively for whatever reason. As @Yggy has pointed out, we have installed specially formed polystyrene packaging between the vacuum tube and the protective cage, so the tubes should remain at their designated location securely. This is how we ship all our vacuum tube amplifiers, including the HA-1Amk2, HA-3A, HA-6A, HA-300MK2, and all the speaker amplifiers we produced over the years. From what we observed, dislocated vacuum tube happens fairly infrequently.

There is an alternative practice in the tube audio industry: instead of installing the vacuum tubes into the amplifier before shipping to customers, we'll remove the vacuum tubes after the QA process, pack the vacuum tubes on their own, and place the vacuum tubes in a separate box and store them at one of the corners in the shipping package. In our experience, this approach is more efficient and logistic friendly but requires the users to install the vacuum tubes when they unbox the amplifier.

Cayin evaluated both options thoroughly and decided to adopt our current practice simply because we want our users to enjoy our amplifier immediately after they take out the amplifier from the packing box. Installing a vacuum tube might sound straightforward to average tube amplifier users, but it can be tedious and "worrying" for newcomers. I still remember the day I handle my first vacuum tube amplifier back in early 2000, I had a hard time trying to figure out the correct direction of each vacuum tube before I pushed them into the tube socket. As a result of our decision to pre-install the vacuum tubes, we need to design our packaging with more foam, more space (bigger in volume), and more rigorous packing procedures.

I read your request ( #2,373 and #2,535) and will suggest Cayin enhance their HA-300MK2 user guide. The User Guide has a "How to Install Vacuum Tubes" section at the end of the guide already, so all they need to do is to add a reminder to check whether the vacuum tubes are properly installed by shaking the tubes mildly. If a particular tube is not as secure (or tightly installed) as another tube, then the user should take the tube out and reinstall the vacuum tube according to the instructions at the end of the user guide.

Andy, Cayin's decision to pre installed the tubes is good considering the difficulties to push in tubes in a new sockets. And you have cage protecting them.

However, I found Cayin's sockets a bit harder to push in compare to other "virgin" sockets. I need extra strength to push in which in my opinion is also good rather than the loosy one.

It's just that alum rings surrounding the 300B holes blocking our sight to see whether it has seated properly. At least for someone new to tube amps. For tube roller expert it shouldn't be a big problem, of course.

 

[Erwinatm]

In high gain setting the signal is not attenuated so you are getting a direct feed from the amp. It should be more dynamic and I most always prefer high gain, even with my daps when using IEMs.

Curious to know which one you prefer Manley + 1266 or Ha300 + susvara?

 

[jamato8]

Curious to know which one you prefer Manley + 1266 or Ha300 + susvara?

I don't have the Susvara. But the Manley is well burned in and the Cayin isn't. Need 75 or more hours on it. If solid-state I would just let it burn in but I don't do that with tubes. I like around 200 hours to really know what something is going to do and from there, things tend to refine more, regarding sound.

 

[JeffMann]

First of all, let me clarify that Cayin will install all vacuum tubes properly and test the amplifier individually before we ship it out. we don't leave a gap purposively for whatever reason. As @Yggy has pointed out, we have installed specially formed polystyrene packaging between the vacuum tube and the protective cage, so the tubes should remain at their designated location securely. This is how we ship all our vacuum tube amplifiers, including the HA-1Amk2, HA-3A, HA-6A, HA-300MK2, and all the speaker amplifiers we produced over the years. From what we observed, dislocated vacuum tube happens fairly infrequently.

There is an alternative practice in the tube audio industry: instead of installing the vacuum tubes into the amplifier before shipping to customers, we'll remove the vacuum tubes after the QA process, pack the vacuum tubes on their own, and place the vacuum tubes in a separate box and store them at one of the corners in the shipping package. In our experience, this approach is more efficient and logistic friendly but requires the users to install the vacuum tubes when they unbox the amplifier.

Cayin evaluated both options thoroughly and decided to adopt our current practice simply because we want our users to enjoy our amplifier immediately after they take out the amplifier from the packing box. Installing a vacuum tube might sound straightforward to average tube amplifier users, but it can be tedious and "worrying" for newcomers. I still remember the day I handle my first vacuum tube amplifier back in early 2000, I had a hard time trying to figure out the correct direction of each vacuum tube before I pushed them into the tube socket. As a result of our decision to pre-install the vacuum tubes, we need to design our packaging with more foam, more space (bigger in volume), and more rigorous packing procedures.

I read your request ( #2,373 and #2,535) and will suggest Cayin enhance their HA-300MK2 user guide. The User Guide has a "How to Install Vacuum Tubes" section at the end of the guide already, so all they need to do is to add a reminder to check whether the vacuum tubes are properly installed by shaking the tubes mildly. If a particular tube is not as secure (or tightly installed) as another tube, then the user should take the tube out and reinstall the vacuum tube according to the instructions at the end of the user guide.

Andy,

You wrote-: "The User Guide has a "How to Install Vacuum Tubes" section at the end of the guide already, so all they need to do is to add a reminder to check whether the vacuum tubes are properly installed by shaking the tubes mildly. If a particular tube is not as secure (or tightly installed) as another tube, then the user should take the tube out and reinstall the vacuum tube according to the instructions at the end of the user guide."

In my humble opinion, your advice about checking the 300B tube by shaking the tube mildly is not useful advice. It would only work if one 300B tube was still securely/fully seated and then one would notice that there is a difference in the stability of the two 300B tubes. In my situation, both 300B tubes were dislodged (dislocated) and they both were relatively unstable in the sense that they could be easily moved sideways if one used the tip of one's finger to press sideways against the top of the tube. I could easily move the 300B tubes sideways by >1cm. Once I discovered how to securely/fully seat the 300B tubes, I noted that they were more stable and could only be moved by <0.5cm when the same degree of fingertip pressure was applied sideways against the top of the tube. If a neophyte tube amplifier user (who has never owned a 300B tube amplifier) gets a Cayin HA300MK2 amplifier with both 300B tubes dislodged (dislocated) then he will have no previous experience based on the "feel" of stability using your recommended advice.

I think that the User Manual should have additional advice. It should recommend that the User (if he is unsure whether the 300B tubes are properly/fully seated) turn the amplifier on its side and then shine a flashlight through the grills. That will enable him to see whether the last ~3mm of the 300B tube's 4 pins are being firmly grasped by the 4 micro-clamps that are inbuilt into the bottom of the tube socket. If the 300B tubes are not fully seated, they will only be touching the top of the 4 micro-clamps. Cayin should post two photographs showing the difference in how the pins are situated with respect to those 4 micro-clamps - i) being fully/properly seated if the ends of the pins are clearly visible within the 4 micro-clamps and ii) being improperly seated if the ends of the 4 pins are located just above the 4 micro-clamps and not defnitely within the grip of the 4 micro-clamps.

If that advice was available to me when I first received the amplifier, then I would not have experienced the emotionally traumatic fiasco that ensued when I switched the amplifier on with improperly seated 300B tubes.

Jeff.

 

[Pashmeister]

Andy,

You wrote-: "The User Guide has a "How to Install Vacuum Tubes" section at the end of the guide already, so all they need to do is to add a reminder to check whether the vacuum tubes are properly installed by shaking the tubes mildly. If a particular tube is not as secure (or tightly installed) as another tube, then the user should take the tube out and reinstall the vacuum tube according to the instructions at the end of the user guide."

In my humble opinion, your advice about checking the 300B tube by shaking the tube mildly is not useful advice. It would only work if one 300B tube was still securely/fully seated and then one would notice that there is a difference in the stability of the two 300B tubes. In my situation, both 300B tubes were dislodged (dislocated) and they both were relatively unstable in the sense that they could be easily moved sideways if one used the tip of one's finger to press sideways against the top of the tube. I could easily move the 300B tubes sideways by >1cm. Once I discovered how to securely/fully seat the 300B tubes, I noted that they were more stable and could only be moved by <0.5cm when the same degree of fingertip pressure was applied sideways against the top of the tube. If a neophyte tube amplifier user (who has never owned a 300B tube amplifier) gets a Cayin HA300MK2 amplifier with both 300B tubes dislodged (dislocated) then he will have no previous experience based on the "feel" of stability using your recommended advice.

I think that the User Manual should have additional advice. It should recommend that the User (if he is unsure whether the 300B tubes are properly/fully seated) turn the amplifier on its side and then shine a flashlight through the grills. That will enable him to see whether the last ~3mm of the 300B tube's 4 pins are being firmly grasped by the 4 micro-clamps that are inbuilt into the bottom of the tube socket. If the 300B tubes are not fully seated, they will only be touching the top of the 4 micro-clamps. Cayin should post two photographs showing the difference in how the pins are situated with respect to those 4 micro-clamps - i) being fully/properly seated if the ends of the pins are clearly visible within the 4 micro-clamps and ii) being improperly seated if the ends of the 4 pins are located just above the 4 micro-clamps and not defnitely within the grip of the 4 micro-clamps.

If that advice was available to me when I first received the amplifier, then I would not have experienced the emotionally traumatic fiasco that ensued when I switched the amplifier on with improperly seated 300B tubes.

Jeff.

I don’t think Cayin has to do that imho. It’s not a Cayin thing, it’s a tube amp thing. The ask is something for the whole industry

 

[Alenotta]

I am so excited right now I just have to share! I have this amp and my system so freaking dialed in right now, it's making my VC's sound other worldly. I finally found a tube combo that is super quiet and with the addition of the Audio Magic M1 fuse, the amp is the quietest it's been so far. The lower noise floor really lets the music breathe and more nuance and detail is coming through as well as the stage opening up and the dynamics have increased as well. Having spent the last 6 years in this hobby climbing the ladder in performance with amps, DAC's, and cables (I started with an OG Schiit Magni/Modi), I finally feel like I have arrived at the place I was dreaming of from the start. Cayin sure does know how to tune and design an amp, and the HA300mk2 is flat out perfection sonically and visually. With my system right now, the bass is so tight, deep, textured and impactful you can literally feel it, the mids are just so right, detailed and natural/lifelike it's insane, and the highs extend and sparkle but are never harsh. The staging and imaging are both incredible and the musicians are fully fleshed out and you can easily follow one specific instrument or you can just relax and get lost in the music. The staging is so expansive and effortless, sound goes way outside the cups and seemingly fills my entire room, of which makes my VC's and Atticus sound like open backs. Lastly, having everything dialed in lets me crank the volume to insane levels, and it just keeps getting better the louder I go. I am enjoying my system so much, I have barely been sleeping the last few days as I just can't get enough.

System specifics that got me where I am at listed below.

Tubes - Elrog ER300B, RFT 6SN7 Welded Plates, Sicte (1 pair) and G.E. (1 pair) 22DE4
Cables - Audio Envy Interconnects and Power Cables
Fuse - Audio Magic M1
DAC - Sonnet Morpheus
Streamer - Sonnet Hermes
Headphone Cable - Norne Solvine 2s (Silver 40% / Copper 60%)

Moral of the story . . .connect the amp to a good DAC, roll some tubes until you find quiet ones, upgrade the cables, swap the fuse and get ready for some magic!

Back to the music.

Looking back through the thread since I just got this amp as well.

What do the Elroy 300Bs sound like compared to the Gold Lions? I'm really enjoying the Gold Lions as they mellow out during burn in?

You replaced the fuse? I haven't researched what is in it. Is this upgrade really noticeable?

 

[jamato8]

Looking back through the thread since I just got this amp as well.

What do the Elroy 300Bs sound like compared to the Gold Lions? I'm really enjoying the Gold Lions as they mellow out during burn in?

You replaced the fuse? I haven't researched what is in it. Is this upgrade really noticeable?

I have some Elroys coming in on Monday. I think the Gold Lion don't sound bad at all. Comparisons are always nice.

 

[incredulousity]

Looking back through the thread since I just got this amp as well.

What do the Elroy 300Bs sound like compared to the Gold Lions? I'm really enjoying the Gold Lions as they mellow out during burn in?

You replaced the fuse? I haven't researched what is in it. Is this upgrade really noticeable?

Different level entirely. More detail, better staging, improved timbre and space. Most will probably like the ER over the Mo.

I actually have the Gold Lion 300Bs, and like them.

 

[jamato8]

Different level entirely. More detail, better staging, improved timber and space. Most will probably like the ER over the Mo.

I actually have the Gold Lion 300Bs, and like them.

You have the Mo? I have read a review of it but what do you think of it?

 

[incredulousity]

The Mo is better on technicalities than the ER. It’s a bit less romantic and toooooby sounding, but not by much. It requires better and often NOS tubes as drivers to be all it can be, and a flawless chain, power, and great headphones to be maximally enjoyed.