[Wes S]

It's another tube rolling day, and I left one pair of G.E. 22DE4 from 60's in the front two slots, and then rolled in a pair of 60's Raytheon (made in Japan) 22DE4 in the rear two slots, and I have to say I am liking what I am hearing. The GE's have the immediacy, punch and forwardness, and the Raytheon's have the transparency, speed, and openness and combined the staging opened up some, without any loss of detail or immediacy/punch.

Another thing of note is now that I have the noise floor issue handled, I decided to play around with the impedance setting, and I just went up from low to medium impedance with my VC's and I am loving the extra bit of euphonic texture and power I am getting. There is a hint more of "tube magic" with the higher impedance and everything just sounds a bit more engaging, and fun.

 

[justanut]

It's another tube rolling day, and I left one pair of G.E. 22DE4 from 60's in the front two slots, and then rolled in a pair of 60's Raytheon (made in Japan) 22DE4 in the rear two slots, and I have to say I am liking what I am hearing. The GE's have the immediacy, punch and forwardness, and the Raytheon's have the transparency, speed, and openness and combined the staging opened up some, without any loss of detail or immediacy/punch.

Another thing of note is now that I have the noise floor issue handled, I decided to play around with the impedance setting, and I just went up from low to medium impedance with my VC's and I am loving the extra bit of euphonic texture and power I am getting. There is a hint more of "tube flavor" with the higher impedance and everything just sounds a bit more engaging, and fun.

I wish I could get my hands on 22DE4s! I could only order spares from Cayin for what I consider inflated prices

 

[JeffMann]

I wish I could get my hands on 22DE4s! I could only order spares from Cayin for what I consider inflated prices

What is the inflated price?

Jeff.

 

[justanut]

What is the inflated price?

Jeff.

My bad. I mixed it up with another purchase. USD$140 ish for a quad, not THAT bad..

 

[Wes S]

Speaking of 22DE4's, here is how I rank the ones I have and a brief description of how they sound. I have found I like to blend different pairs and I am currently running a pair of #1 in the back slots and pair of #2 in the front slots and that's where I will be staying for the foreseeable future.

1. Raytheon (Japan early 60's) 22DE4 Black Plates - Dynamic, with very strong, tight and deep bass with punch you can feel, highly detailed, fast and open sounding - This tube has the strongest bass, and is the most transparent and open sounding of the bunch, hence why it's ranked number 1. I feel like I am sitting a few rows back stage level in the best seats in the house with this tube.

2. G.E. 22DE4 60's - Vey dynamic, foward and immediate sounding, with strong and tight bass, feels like sitting front row, and really has the 3D effect going strong due to the forwardness with sounds flying all around and behind my head. I like to blend this tube with the Raytheon black plates, and combined they really bring out the best of each other.

3. Raytheon (Japan mid to late 60's) 22DE4 Grey Plates - Similar to the blackplates with a very open sounding stage, but just a bit less dynamic and extended as well. I like the black plates better, but these are close and are still very very good tubes.

4. Tung Sol 22DE4 60's - Mid focused with good dynamics and midbass punch with forward vocals. The stage is on the smaller more intimate side, but this tube could work well in certain situations or blended with a tube that has better extension on both ends like the Raytheons.

5. Sylvania 22DE4 60's - This tube has the classic Sylvania "house sound", of being slightly warm and well balanced, with decent bass, big vocals and an airy yet smooth top end. This tube leans a bit warm and slow compared to the top 4, but still has good detail with a smooth sound overall. I consider this tube to have the "classic tube sound", and it could work very well blended with a faster more neutral tube, such as the G.E. or Raytheon or if you are wanting to slow things down a bit this is your tube. The staging is open as well, and it's like sitting quite a few rows back from the stage. This is a great middle of the road tube, and I think many would like it.

6. RCA 22DE4 60's - Good balance top to bottom, decent extension on both ends and a very open sounding stage. This tube lacks the immediacy and impact of the top tubes, and sounds quite a bit diffused and smoothed over as well, but doesn't have any glaring issues either, so I can see why Cayin chose RCA as the stock tube. It's a good middle of the road kind of tube, and can be great blended with a more forward tube or for someone looking to expand the stage. This tube feels like you are sitting quite a few rows back in a big concert hall.

Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening!

 

[ARCXENOS]

Speaking of 22DE4's, here is how I rank the ones I have and a brief description of how they sound. I have found I like to blend different pairs and I am currently running a pair of #1 in the back slots and pair of #2 in the front slots and that's where I will be staying for the foreseeable future.

1. Raytheon (Japan early 60's) 22DE4 Black Plates - Dynamic, with very strong, tight and deep bass with punch you can feel, highly detailed, fast and open sounding - This tube has the strongest bass, and is the most transparent and open sounding of the bunch, hence why it's ranked number 1. I feel like I am sitting a few rows back stage level in the best seats in the house with this tube.


2. G.E. 22DE4 60's - Vey dynamic, foward and immediate sounding, with strong and tight bass, feels like sitting front row, and really has the 3D effect going strong due to the forwardness with sounds flying all around and behind my head. I like to blend this tube with the Raytheon black plates, and combined they really bring out the best of each other.


3. Raytheon (Japan mid to late 60's) 22DE4 Grey Plates - Similar to the blackplates with a very open sounding stage, but just a bit less dynamic and extended as well. I like the black plates better, but these are close and are still very very good tubes.


4. Tung Sol 22DE4 60's - Mid focused with good dynamics and midbass punch with forward vocals. The stage is on the smaller more intimate side, but this tube could work well in certain situations or blended with a tube that has better extension on both ends like the Raytheons.


5. Sylvania 22DE4 60's - This tube has the classic Sylvania "house sound", of being slightly warm and well balanced, with decent bass, big vocals and an airy yet smooth top end. This tube leans a bit warm and slow compared to the top 4, but still has good detail with a smooth sound overall. I consider this tube to have the "classic tube sound", and it could work very well blended with a faster more neutral tube, such as the G.E. or Raytheon or if you are wanting to slow things down a bit this is your tube. The staging is open as well, and it's like sitting quite a few rows back from the stage. This is a great middle of the road tube, and I think many would like it.


6. RCA 22DE4 60's - Good balance top to bottom, decent extension on both ends and a very open sounding stage. This tube lacks the immediacy and impact of the top tubes, and sounds quite a bit diffused and smoothed over as well, but doesn't have any glaring issues either, so I can see why Cayin chose RCA as the stock tube. It's a good middle of the road kind of tube, and can be great blended with a more forward tube or for someone looking to expand the stage. This tube feels like you are sitting quite a few rows back in a big concert hall.


Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening!

I ordered a quad of GEs the other day just for backup, hopefully I will be able to tell the difference!

 

[Wes S]

Got to love the ealry morning tube glow!

 

[Wes S]

I ordered a quad of GEs the other day just for backup, hopefully I will be able to tell the difference!

Looking forward to hearing how they work out for you, and the G.E. sound is quite different from the RCA, so you should definitely hear a difference.

 

[Erwinatm]

Looking forward to hearing how they work out for you, and the G.E. sound is quite different from the RCA, so you should definitely hear a difference.

Expecting mine maybe in a couple of weeks...yes weeks.. still in US right now...

 

[paradoxper]

Got to love the ealry morning tube glow!

Let it rip.

 

[ARCXENOS]

I ordered a quad of GEs the other day just for backup, hopefully I will be able to tell the difference!

They arrived, I got a quad (1979, 1982 pairs) for 50 USD, used them for the last few hours and I want to say, yes I do think rolling rectifier do make some difference. I bought the quad just as insurance, but I am pleased at the outcome.

tight bass, feels like sitting front row, and really has the 3D effect going strong due to the forwardness with sounds flying all around and behind my head

I have always been told rectifiers make little difference, maybe its placebo on my end, but I believe Wes summarized the experience for me. Maybe its one of those cable debates, but looking at the point of view of having a backup set, I think its more than I bargained for.









Different glow as an added bonus. I will also agree with sentiments to roll rectifiers after you are done with your drivers and power tubes.

As for my power tube rolling, I recently found out that my local Elrog dealer is still active with local warranty, lets just say I am even more interested in them now

 

[Erwinatm]

They arrived, I got a quad (1979, 1982 pairs) for 50 USD, used them for the last few hours and I want to say, yes I do think rolling rectifier do make some difference. I bought the quad just as insurance, but I am pleased at the outcome.



I have always been told rectifiers make little difference, maybe its placebo on my end, but I believe Wes summarized the experience for me. Maybe its one of those cable debates, but looking at the point of view of having a backup set, I think its more than I bargained for.









Different glow as an added bonus. I will also agree with sentiments to roll rectifiers after you are done with your drivers and power tubes.

As for my power tube rolling, I recently found out that my local Elrog dealer is still active with local warranty, lets just say I am even more interested in them now

When I ordered price was already $70 and still in US right now. I don't know what USPS doing for 10 days.

Why dont you use them and make the stock ones as backup?

 

[ARCXENOS]

When I ordered price was already $70 and still in US right now. I don't know what USPS doing for 10 days.

Why dont you use them and make the stock ones as backup?

For the foreseeable future, the RCA quad became the backup indeed

Unless the price gets out of hand, I will likely pickup another quad, hopefully Sylvanias, when the opportunity arises.

 

[ARCXENOS]

First impressions over 15 hours, comparison relative to the Gold Lions with both setups using Mullard ECC32, GE 22DE4, Holo May and Susvara, Genres : Rock, Pop, Electronica, Acoustics





In the above setup and my personal opinion, my unscientific first impression of the ER300b includes :

- Better depth perception, IMO it goes in very deep vs the gold lions, the 3D effect is simply more pronounced.
- Instrument separation is very clear and layered, percussion and strings definition makes me want to revisit my entire music collection again
- Absolutely faster transient response than I have perceived on the gold lions, very crispy sounding, absolutely no contest here. The cymbal crash I mentioned previously in my ecc32 post? It gave me shivers when I heard it again. The resolution and detail retrieval from these are just flat out superior to the gold lions
- Vocals sounds more musical, gold lions feels relatively dull in comparison. Overall more energetic mids, which helps sell the illusion of the the artist being close around.
- More weighty, authoritative bass. Full-bodied, tight and never muddy. To be retested with the kenrads vt-231 once I can stop listening to the current setup
- Less perceived sibilance vs gold lions, definitely less harsh for some electronic sounds.
- Did I mention speed?

Pleasant Musicality is how I will describe my experience in summary. You won't get hyper detail (compared to other similarly priced higher end 300b pairs as I have read and considered), nor will you get earthquake generators, what you get is something that hits the right amount of everything. These aren't just hype from the various threads, these are the real deal. In my opinion, I now believe 300B rolling can make a big perceivable difference, and I would be keened on trying out other pairs in the future.

As much as I love these, I still believe driver tubes (your 6SN7s and variants) should come first, but once you get that signature you want, there is a definite difference from rolling the 300B.

All around, without a doubt in my mind, it is an immediate night and day difference vs the gold lions. I definitely enjoyed my time with the stock Gold Lions from the start (otherwise I would had never reached this point), and I try my best to look at things as sidegrades in this hobby (i.e. just different as opposed to X > Y), but this is one of those times I couldn't. I am hoping that someday, an ER6SN7 can exist to listen to what Elrog can really do.

 

[llamaluv]

Hey, thanks to the posters who have mentioned the GE rectifiers, and @Wes S in particular of course.

I'm running them in now for the first time, and they sound very good. The differences I'm hearing remind me of the kind of changes that can be had by rolling the power tubes, and easily as important. Only costing 5-20x less to do so .

After my first 45 minutes of listening, I'm quite impressed.