Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable HeadAmp

[Andykong]

What totl headphones have best synergy with the C9? I’m considering lcd-5 or he1000se

The HEKse is really easy to drive. The combo of the Hugo 2 and C9 will net you the same benefits as a dedicated desktop system. Meaning staging, dynamics, speed, resolution and clarity are all there with the HEKse. As an added bonus the C9 also has great tonality. As far as spatial information, I think both the LCD-5 and HEKse will get you that. The HEKse wins in bass and holography. The LCD-5 is more intimate sounding with slightly better transient snap. All other sonic attributes I give the edge to the HEKse.

I sold my LCD-5 and Hugo 2, in favor of the Mojo 2, before getting the C9. So my setup is the Mojo 2/C9, which is percentage points just behind the Hugo 2/C9 in overall sound quality. I sold my Hugo in favor of the Mojo 2 because of the EQ feature. I might has give up some quality, but the EQ feature makes it an ever better solution for me. Even though the Hugo 2 is the better overall DAC performance wise.

I disagree on Diana line being driven by the C9 with the Hugo 2/Mojo 2 as the DAC. The C9 has more power than the Broadway, which Abyss recommends for the Diana's. The C9 also sounds fuller and is just as dynamic and resolute as the Broadway. Like I said, my Diana TC's sounds outstanding out of the C9. The C9 has great driving ability and actually does perform like a desktop amp.

Slim1970 has provided a very informative comparison of LCD-5 and HEKse (and Diana as well) with C9, definitely very helpful to C9 users.

@kajetanjazz Synergy is related to sound signature, and the sound signature is the summation of performance and personal preference, so it's difficult to make any recommendation before knowing your preference. Maybe I'll approach the question from a more performance-based perspective. If I were to compare C9 with a $2K desktop headphone amplifier (GSX-Mini or something like Cayin HA-6A for a little bit more), HEKse probably will get my vote because the performance gap between C9 and its desktop counterpart is relatively smaller. Both LCD-5 and Diana will be noticeably benefited when you switch to these desktop amplifiers.

 

[kajetanjazz]

Slim1970 has provided a very informative comparison of LCD-5 and HEKse (and Diana as well) with C9, definitely very helpful to C9 users.

@kajetanjazz Synergy is related to sound signature, and the sound signature is the summation of performance and personal preference, so it's difficult to make any recommendation before knowing your preference. Maybe I'll approach the question from a more performance-based perspective. If I were to compare C9 with a $2K desktop headphone amplifier (GSX-Mini or something like Cayin HA-6A for a little bit more), HEKse probably will get my vote because the performance gap between C9 and its desktop counterpart is relatively smaller. Both LCD-5 and Diana will be noticeably benefited when you switch to these desktop amplifiers.

Agree, I care about specifics like dynamics and spatial presentation, but when I asked about what has best synergy it just meant what headphones perform to their best in the pairing with C9. I considered gsx mini, however got the c9 instead and I’m very happy with it. Probably I’ll get a desktop unit later while I first get the headphone and c9 will be what drives it for the nearest future

 

[jlemaster1957]

Agree, I care about specifics like dynamics and spatial presentation, but when I asked about what has best synergy it just meant what headphones perform to their best in the pairing with C9. I considered gsx mini, however got the c9 instead and I’m very happy with it. Probably I’ll get a desktop unit later while I first get the headphone and c9 will be what drives it for the nearest future

Just 2 cents from another C9 owner on HP use- I have found similar results on high sensitivity HPs like the Audeze’s but don’t expect amazing results from low sensitivity like Susvara’s. Power in high gain is probably enough to listen but you’ll do better with a desktop setup with higher wattage for those. Arya is just fine, very good indeed in fact.

 

[Ieonasj]

hello,im new in audio.what portable dac/amp to buy for my audeze lcd-2c connect to laptop listen music.? need with mqa decoding, balanced 4.4mm output,6.35mm uotput,small size ,maybe powered from laptop via usb-c. in price 100-350eur

 

[111MilesToGo]

hello,im new in audio.what portable dac/amp to buy for my audeze lcd-2c connect to laptop listen music.? need with mqa decoding, balanced 4.4mm output,6.35mm uotput,small size ,maybe powered from laptop via usb-c. in price 100-350eur

Hello here, I am somewhat afraid that the class and demands (power) of your lcd-2c is in contradiction to the (price) class you imagine for your DAC/Amp. My feeling is you might be better off widening your search. Consider a used device, too.

 

[Ieonasj]

Hello here, I am somewhat afraid that the class and demands (power) of your lcd-2c is in contradiction to the (price) class you imagine for your DAC/Amp. My feeling is you might be better off widening your search. Consider a used device, too.

ibasso DC06 works? it has mqa decoder and 300mW output baklanced. lcd-2c needs 100-250mW output on spec shows.

 

[111MilesToGo]

ibasso DC06 works? it has mqa decoder and 300mW output baklanced. lcd-2c needs 100-250mW output on spec shows.

Well, please take my opinion with a pinch of salt at least. I was just reflecting conventional wisdom about planar magnetic headphones. I have no personal experience with Audeze‘s; except that they were not my cup of tea at an audition (but that‘s irrelevant here).

But, looking at the specs and taking them face value:

The LCD-2C has 70 Ohms impedance. The Audeze website (switches to German automatically) says ”minimum power >100 mW“ and ”recommended power >250 mW“. Keep in mind: Into 70 Ohms!

The iBasso DC06 is a dongle DAC, with specified power output of 320 mW into 32 Ohms balanced. EDIT: It seems it is intended mostly for IEMs with typical impedances somewhere <=32 Ohms.

Just from these numbers I figure the DC06 won‘t drive the LCD-2C to satisfaction. Probably others here will know better!

Again, I tend to think of devices in classes. To my feeling, Audeze planar magnetics belong into desktop-type territory, but minimum at the diffuse borderline between desktop and (trans)portable.

Sorry for not being able to help more. My personal experience with underpowering headphones is that (1) you manage to get them loud enough in general, but (2) you will realize that you lose quite some dynamics and effortlessness.

 

[Ieonasj]

Well, please take my opinion with a pinch of salt at least. I was just reflecting conventional wisdom about planar magnetic headphones. I have no personal experience with Audeze‘s; except that they were not my cup of tea at an audition (but that‘s irrelevant here).

But, looking at the specs and taking them face value:

The LCD-2C has 70 Ohms impedance. The Audeze website (switches to German automatically) says ”minimum power >100 mW“ and ”recommended power >250 mW“. Keep in mind: Into 70 Ohms!

The iBasso DC06 is a dongle DAC, with specified power output of 320 mW into 32 Ohms balanced. EDIT: It seems it is intended mostly for IEMs with typical impedances somewhere <=32 Ohms.

Just from these numbers I figure the DC06 won‘t drive the LCD-2C to satisfaction. Probably others here will know better!

Again, I tend to think of devices in classes. To my feeling, Audeze planar magnetics belong into desktop-type territory, but minimum at the diffuse borderline between desktop and (trans)portable.

Sorry for not being able to help more. My personal experience with underpowering headphones is that (1) you manage to get them loud enough in general, but (2) you will realize that you lose quite some dynamics and effortlessness.

does i need better amp with 6.35 output for my audeze then use adapter to 4.4 balanced?

 

[Spawn300Z]

If I want to do this: DAP+Hugo2+C9, which port I should use on Hugo2 to connect to C9? Can I just use a 3.5 to 3.5 cable plug into the 3.5 jack on Hugo2 and the other end of the 3.5 connect to the C9 3.5 input?

I’ve used the 3.5mm to 3.5mm but I feel the best results come from RCA to 3.5mm from the H2 to C9. Currently listening to it will cruising. Good luck

 

[111MilesToGo]

@Ieonasj, here is an idea to look at: The Chord Mojo2 DAC/Amp. It is out of your price range, but maybe consider used. It is not capable of MQA, but maybe consider other streaming services (Qobuz of course …). Actually, you should ask on the Mojo2 and Audeze LCD-2C threads here whether combining them works for starters. Just a wild guess of mine to come up with a positive feedback.

 

[IgeNeLL]

I’ve used the 3.5mm to 3.5mm but I feel the best results come from RCA to 3.5mm from the H2 to C9. Currently listening to it will cruising. Good luck

The output RCA is better than 3.5 when connecting to C9. But C9 result better when 3.5 => 3.5 than 3.5 to 4.4 (the converting from SE to BAL result in high noise ratio)

 

[Spawn300Z]

The output RCA is better than 3.5 when connecting to C9. But C9 result better when 3.5 => 3.5 than 3.5 to 4.4 (the converting from SE to BAL result in high noise ratio)

So far it was fine. But will see. I thought about RCA to 4.4mm but didn’t think it would work right since the H2 is single ended

 

[jlemaster1957]

I’ve used the 3.5mm to 3.5mm but I feel the best results come from RCA to 3.5mm from the H2 to C9. Currently listening to it will cruising. Good luck

If I understand the outputs correctly, your 3.5 mm out of the Hugo 2 should be like typical Phone out of a DAP and the RCAs are line out. In that case you could try the pre-amp switch on C9 to use it as a power amp for the Hugo and you will be able to hear the Hugo 2 amp section. It does create a ‘double amp’ situation but also allows you to taste all the variations of the 4 C9 output options (class A + Nutube, class A w/o tubes, class AB + Nu-tube, class AB w/o tubes) on top of the Hugo 2. Do remember to turn the volume all the way down to lowest on Hugo 2 before initiating pre-amp on C9, then gradually increase volume on Hugo to comfortable hearing levels (to avoid blowing out your ears or hp’s). Using the RCA (line out) from Hugo to 3.5 mm in on C9 side ( in regular not pre-amp mode) you will control volume on the C9 side, and you remove the Hugo amp section (so Hugo Dac + C9 amp)- if I am correctly understanding the Hugo 2 outputs.

 

[111MilesToGo]

If I understand the outputs correctly, your 3.5 mm out of the Hugo 2 should be like typical Phone out of a DAP and the RCAs are line out. In that case you could try the pre-amp switch on C9 to use it as a power amp for the Hugo and you will be able to hear the Hugo 2 amp section. It does create a ‘double amp’ situation but also allows you to taste all the variations of the 4 C9 output options (class A + Nutube, class A w/o tubes, class AB + Nu-tube, class AB w/o tubes) on top of the Hugo 2. Do remember to turn the volume all the way down to lowest on Hugo 2 before initiating pre-amp on C9, then gradually increase volume on Hugo to comfortable hearing levels (to avoid blowing out your ears or hp’s). Using the RCA (line out) from Hugo to 3.5 mm in on C9 side ( in regular not pre-amp mode) you will control volume on the C9 side, and you remove the Hugo amp section (so Hugo Dac + C9 amp)- if I am correctly understanding the Hugo 2 outputs.

The Hugo2 is a special kind of animal, in that the usual DAP terms ”phone out“ and ”(true) line out“ do not apply strictly. I don‘t dare to explain correctly what the H2 does. Suffice to say that the RCA out has the same volume adjustment as the 6.35 and 3.5 mm outs.

It‘s a heated debate whether using an amp behind the H2 is a sacrilege or an enhancement. Cf. HERE.

Myself, I am happily amping the H2 from the RCA out into either a Violectric V281 orcthe Cayin C9.

 

[111MilesToGo]

… Using the RCA (line out) from Hugo to 3.5 mm in on C9 side ( in regular not pre-amp mode) you will control volume on the C9 side, and you remove the Hugo amp section (so Hugo Dac + C9 amp)- if I am correctly understanding the Hugo 2 outputs.

As per my current and limited understanding of the H2, this ”remove the H2 amp section when using RCA out“ is not correct. But I would happily stand corrected if somebody knows better!

BTW, does anybody know of a simple block diagram of the Hugo2? I mean such a schematic should clarify the questions we (or at least myself) have about its functioning. I‘ll go out on a limb and sketch it roughly as follows:
Various inputs > FPGA including Digital volume control and digital-to-analog conversion
> Analog output buffer > Various outputs (all tied together)
I probably am totally wrong. Please regard my little hypothesis here as provoking your knowledge and thoughts!