Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable HeadAmp

Feb 13, 2021 at 9:16 PM Post #1,171 of 6,374
@bluestorm1992 : thanks for the insightful review. And lovely Eletech cables. Eric does sterling work. :)
Quick Q: how do you connect the SP2000 to the C9 - LO or PO? Thanks!
Thanks for your kind words! @KickAssChewGum knows more about the proper connection between SP2000 and C9.
 
Feb 13, 2021 at 11:01 PM Post #1,173 of 6,374
Oh well. These 20S is supposedly Samsung most powerful, also as industrial leading cells. It has a sustainable continuous discharge rate of 35A. Buttt....

it doesn’t sound anything like that, it did sound like the Sanyo 3500mAh which I recommend to avoid before

I would say Avoid Samsung 20S

So, from all of my experiences, I highly recommend Orbtronic as a vendor

This one has the best sub bass, good Punches, slower transient which is very tube like, black back ground, great density all around (My favorite and best pick)
https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

This one is similar to the Stock Sony VTC6, except with very slightly less meaty punches, but it has more of a solid state transient speed which is a little faster than the Sony

https://www.orbtronic.com/40a-18650-3120mah-button-top-battery-high-drain

Then finally we have the Sony stock here, which is fairly neutral with good density, speedy bass and excellent Punches. The Orb-3120 is so close to the VCT-6 depends on personal preferences
I have to give Cayin extra credits for this, at least it isn’t easy to outperform Stock battery of choice. This means Cayin had gone extra miles here and there to finalize the C9

https://www.orbtronic.com/sony-vtc6-18650-battery-flat-top
These are the Orbtronic 18650's I use daily:

PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
18650 3500mAh Battery Protected Li-ion 3.7V Rechargeable High Performance 10A (Panasonic-Sanyo inside) Free Battery Case Included - $13.99

https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-protected-battery-3500mah-lithium-ion

Those ^^ specs look a lot like the Orbtronic 18650 model you show in the photo:

PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
3500mAh 18650 High Drain Hybrid IMR Rechargeable Battery 3.7V Flat Top Orbtronic - $10.75

https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

IDK how those protection circuits would affect the sound...or if they would fit the same...the protection circuits and button tops add length, that's why I try to get the flat tops with protection circuits.

I do suggest the lithium ion batteries with extra protection built in to prevent battery fires and ruined batteries due to over-discharge and overheating:

Protection
:
Overcharge (Activated at 4.35V)
Over-discharge (Activated at 2.4V-2.5V)
Overcurrent (Activated at 10A)
Overheating, and dual short circuit protection (External, and Internal).

For example:
PROTECTED 3600mAh 18650 rechargeable battery Li-ion Orbtronic 3.7V (Panasonic inside).
Resettable Protection: Over-current (Activated at 10A), Over-charge (Activated at 4.29V) - Over-discharge (Activated at 2.4V-2.5V) - El. short circuit protection. Protection electronic circuit designed by Seiko. ICs made in Japan.
Best battery for High Power flashlight users, or for anyone who is looking for the longest run time.
Orbtronic 18650 battery is very safe to operate. This 18650 Li-ion protected cell will automatically cut off current flow if any of the following occur: Short circuit (dead short) - Extreme temperature, Abnormally high current, Overvoltage, Overcharge, Over-discharge.

I was going to reorder those 3600mah 18650's I also use daily, but they are currently out of stock: [Back in stock 2/15/2021]

PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
3600mAh 18650 Battery Protected Li-ion Orbtronic (Panasonic inside) 3.7V Rechargeable Cell - For High Performance Flashlights - Dual Protection - $14.99

https://www.orbtronic.com/3600mah-18650-li-ion-orbtronic-panasonic-rechargeable-battery

It would be nice if makers would start using the new 21700's, they are slim like the 18650 but hold 5000mah+ like the physically much bigger 26650's. I have a few flashlights that use the 21700, but so far no other electronics I've seen use them. 21700 4x5000mah would be a nice bump up from 18650 4x3600mah :)

We all live off of the batteries used by the big electric car companies - 18650->26650-> and the new Tesla 4860 (48600) cells are just a bit too big for pocketable portables, but great for big battery banks to recharge the C9 on the road. :)
 
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Feb 13, 2021 at 11:37 PM Post #1,174 of 6,374
Thanks for your kind words! @KickAssChewGum knows more about the proper connection between SP2000 and C9.
Hey @Kiats i noticed that you edited your initial question to change it to the Sony rather than AK. Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with the Sony but do let me know if you still need any SP2000 connection advice and I’d be pleased to help.
 
Feb 14, 2021 at 12:15 AM Post #1,176 of 6,374
Hey @Kiats i noticed that you edited your initial question to change it to the Sony rather than AK. Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with the Sony but do let me know if you still need any SP2000 connection advice and I’d be pleased to help.

Haha! I wanted to ask both. I am terrible at editing. Yes, please. I would love to hear about SP2000 or SP1000 connections - the C9 would help me solve the issue of lack of power in all my older DAPs. Excellent but underpowered. Thanks @KickAssChewGum 🙏
 
Feb 14, 2021 at 12:20 AM Post #1,177 of 6,374
@bluestorm1992 nice review
Worth to add in C9 in between Hugo and ier-z1r?
Appreciate your opinion
Thanks for your kind words. :)

I plan to discuss this in my review part #2. My short conclusion is you will gain very little if you only use IEMs. I don’t own Z1R ATM but I believe Hugo 2 should still be sufficient. If your use case includes high impedance/ low sensitivity headphones, then C9 will benefit you quite a lot as Hugo 2 does not really have the power for those.
 
Feb 14, 2021 at 12:46 AM Post #1,178 of 6,374
Thanks for your kind words. :)

I plan to discuss this in my review part #2. My short conclusion is you will gain very little if you only use IEMs. I don’t own Z1R ATM but I believe Hugo 2 should still be sufficient. If your use case includes high impedance/ low sensitivity headphones, then C9 will benefit you quite a lot as Hugo 2 does not really have the power for those.
@bluestorm1992 - I would be most interested in the C9 performance with 600 ohm headphone, or hard to drive Planar Magnetics like the Hifiman HE6SE V2. :)
 
Feb 14, 2021 at 12:49 AM Post #1,179 of 6,374
@bluestorm1992 - I would be most interested in the C9 performance with 600 ohm headphone, or hard to drive Planar Magnetics like the Hifiman HE6SE V2. :)

6se is crazy crazy tough to drive, but he said he would post his thoughts on Diana's in pt2. As for the 600ohm, it was discussed earlier that unfortunately that was just outside of the designed load capacity, so while it will work, it won't be the best
 
Feb 14, 2021 at 1:11 AM Post #1,180 of 6,374
6se is crazy crazy tough to drive, but he said he would post his thoughts on Diana's in pt2. As for the 600ohm, it was discussed earlier that unfortunately that was just outside of the designed load capacity, so while it will work, it won't be the best
I've been waiting for someone with a production unit to give a customer test review before giving up on the C9 altogether. If not @bluestorm1992 then another customer with a production unit may be able to give us some insight as to how the C9 sounds with 600 ohm headphones, or hard to drive Planar Magnetic Headphones.

My Topping A90 can drive the HE6SE V2 at High Gain + 12 o'clock on the volume dial, and my Xduoo TA-20 at 85 out of 95 on the volume dial sounds much better - even though the A90 should be able to deliver more power the TA-20 sounds more full and forceful.

I'm waiting for a new custom cable 4.4mm to try my HE6SE V2 on my FiiO M15, which should do ok as my M15 drives my 600 ohm headphones with the "Over the Ear" setting enabled.

I would be surprised if the C9 can't out-do the FiiO M15's driving power...

And, I'd rather hear how actual customers find the C9 power delivery works with their headphones than judge the production C9 on pre-production tests.
 
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Feb 14, 2021 at 1:31 AM Post #1,181 of 6,374
I've been waiting for someone with a production unit to give a customer test review before giving up on the C9 altogether. If not @bluestorm1992 then another customer with a production unit may be able to give us some insight as to how it sounds.

My Topping A90 can drive the HE6SE V2 at High Gain + 12 o'clock on the volume dial, and my Xduoo TA-20 at 85 out of 96 on the volume dial sounds much better - even though the A90 should be able to deliver more power the TA-20 sounds more full and forceful.

I'm waiting for a new custom cable 4.4mm to try my HE6SE V2 on my FiiO M15, which should do ok as my M15 drives my 600 ohm headphones with the "Over the Ear" setting enabled.

I would be surprised if the C9 can't out-do the FiiO M15's driving power...

And, I'd rather hear how a actual customers find the C9 power delivery works with their headphones than judge the production C9 on pre-production tests.

I wish it were as simple as that but unfortunately you just can't compair high impedence headphone with low impedence ones. They need different things (namely high impedence need voltage and low impedence need current). The HE6SE is 50 ohm at 83 db/mw. To be save with enough overhead, you are looking something like 5W @ 50 0hm. The c9 is a fraction of that. Hell, even the most powerful portable is only a fraction of that. The issue here all comes down to current limits. If the cayin rating is continuous power we may actualy be in a good shape, but if its true max powrr like normal I dont think we are even close

Edit: to put this into perspective. While the dt880 600ohm and HE6SE need similar voltage to reach the same SPL, at 120db, the DT880 pulls 22mA while the HE6SE pulls 300mA
 
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Feb 14, 2021 at 2:46 AM Post #1,182 of 6,374
These are the Orbtronic 18650's I use daily:

PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
18650 3500mAh Battery Protected Li-ion 3.7V Rechargeable High Performance 10A (Panasonic-Sanyo inside) Free Battery Case Included - $13.99

https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-protected-battery-3500mah-lithium-ion

Those ^^ specs look a lot like the Orbtronic 18650 model you show in the photo:

PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
3500mAh 18650 High Drain Hybrid IMR Rechargeable Battery 3.7V Flat Top Orbtronic - $10.75

https://www.orbtronic.com/3500mah-18650-imr-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-orbtronic-li-ion

IDK how those protection circuits would affect the sound...or if they would fit the same...the protection circuits and button tops add length, that's why I get the flat tops with protection circuits.

I do suggest the lithium ion batteries with extra protection built in to prevent battery fires and ruined batteries due to over-discharge and overheating:

Protection
:
Overcharge (Activated at 4.35V)
Over-discharge (Activated at 2.4V-2.5V)
Overcurrent (Activated at 10A)
Overheating, and dual short circuit protection (External, and Internal).

For example:
PROTECTED 3600mAh 18650 rechargeable battery Li-ion Orbtronic 3.7V (Panasonic inside).
Resettable Protection: Over-current (Activated at 10A), Over-charge (Activated at 4.29V) - Over-discharge (Activated at 2.4V-2.5V) - El. short circuit protection. Protection electronic circuit designed by Seiko. ICs made in Japan.
Best battery for High Power flashlight users, or for anyone who is looking for the longest run time.
Orbtronic 18650 battery is very safe to operate. This 18650 Li-ion protected cell will automatically cut off current flow if any of the following occur: Short circuit (dead short) - Extreme temperature, Abnormally high current, Overvoltage, Overcharge, Over-discharge.

I was going to reorder those 3600mah 18650's I also use daily, but they are currently out of stock:

PANASONIC ORBTRONIC
3600mAh 18650 Battery Protected Li-ion Orbtronic (Panasonic inside) 3.7V Rechargeable Cell - For High Performance Flashlights - Dual Protection - $14.99

https://www.orbtronic.com/3600mah-18650-li-ion-orbtronic-panasonic-rechargeable-battery

It would be nice if makers would start using the new 21700's, they are slim like the 18650 but hold 5000mah+ like the physically much bigger 26650's. I have a few flashlights that use the 21700, but so far no other electronics I've seen use them. 21700 4x5000mah would be a nice bump up from 18650 4x3600mah :)

We all live off of the batteries used by the big electric car companies - 18650->26650-> and the new Tesla 4860 (48600) cells are just a bit too big for pocketable portables, but great for big battery banks. :)
I have a hard time fitting the button tops unprotected cells in the tray, and they are 67mm length at Max. Flat top version of protected cells are at least 68.5mm (Have you tried fitting protected cell yet?)
The C9 tray has it own protection circuit built in. So it uses Unprotected battery cells.

The differences between “Protected” and “Unprotected” cells are the Pulse currents. This is the Burst Max current a cell can supply. For example, the ORB-3500, the Pulse current is stated
Max Discharge capability - Pulse Current: 18A (18000mA)
You will get cut off at 10A with “protected version”.
You can find more details here
https://www.fenix-store.com/blog/wh...en-protected-and-unprotected-18650-batteries/

Stock batteries are “unprotected”
US18650VTC6. Because the C9 has it own protection circuits
. For a more detailed statements on the protection circuits, I think we need to tag @Andykong here to ask whether the protected circuits on the cells can interfere and pose potential damages to the batteries management circuits on the C9 ? Or how would the Pulse currents effect the system
Using the Search function, you can see his earlier post to stated this
The C9 use unprotected 18650 batteries.
The hardest things about these “Unprotected cells” are the charging and safe storage of them. Always store them in the protective cases and Always use a good charger such as
https://www.orbtronic.com/battery-charger-21700-26650-18650-14500-li-ion-ni-mh-aa-aaa
 
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Feb 14, 2021 at 3:56 AM Post #1,183 of 6,374
Cayin C9 - TOTL IEM/Headphone Portable Tube/Solid-State (SS) Amplifier Review (1/2)

This is going to be a long review so I will break it into two parts: The first for C9's functionality and general performance (this post), and the second for its specific pairing with my various gears.

I think it will also be useful that I open this review by giving my conclusion of C9. It is a truly TOTL amplifier for IEMs and headphones. It has the ability to bring any DAPs one or two levels up in their performance. This is true not just for mid-tier DAPs, but even for TOTL DAPs like Lotoo PAW Gold and AK SP2000. The improvement is comprehensive. With it, the sound opens up, the veil is lifted, and the performance of both the DAP and the IEM is brought to their full potentials.

In general, I consider the combo of a decent DAP + C9 to be at least at the level of Hugo 2, which I considered as the king in driving IEMs.



Some Background Info of Portable Amps

If you are quite familiar with portable amplifiers, please feel free to skip this section.

So what is a portable amp, and why do I need it? A portable amp is something that can be connected with your DAP (or any source component) to further enhance its performance. In a super general level, you can consider any DAP as doing two jobs simultaneous: (1) it has the DAC portion that helps to decode the music; (2) it has the Amp portion that takes the input from the DAC portion, amplifiers the input, and then delivers it as the output from the DAP.

Most modern DAPs have the line-out function which, if it works as intended, will bypass the Amp portion of the DAP and only outputs the signals from its DAC. With this function, the DAP can be connected with a dedicated amplifier to achieve a performance upgrade. C9 is such a dedicated amplifier. In principle, an additional, dedicated Amp should do a much better job in taking up the Amp job: It has an independent power supply, better components/circuit design, and potentially better functionalities.

General Introduction of C9

I want to start with a simple personal experience in my journey of DAPs. Back in the days, I got my first DAP from Lotoo: LP6K. I really like its functionality and sound signature. However, I find that it could not really drive my LCD-i4 or IER-Z1R very well. So I thought, OK, let me upgrade the DAP to get better performance out of the two IEMs. I then sold the LP6K and got the LPGT. LPGT did have better performance and I was quite happy with it for a while, but I still have the feeling that there is still room for improvement. I then continue my journal of searching, go through a couple of other DAPs, and eventually come to Hugo 2 which I am finally happy with its performance in driving virtually any IEMs I have.

Does this experience sound familiar to some of you? I think a lot of people have had similar experiences. When C9 came out, I in fact don't really need it as I am quite satisfied with Hugo 2. But I keep thinking this: If C9 were available back in the days when I wanted to upgrade LP6K, maybe all I needed was to buy a C9. No more need for DAPs exploring, and I get to keep my favorite Lotoo sound signature. So, I bought the C9, and I am happy to report that it not only does such a job, but it accomplishes it extremely well.


Functionality

C9 is a tube/solid-state dual-mode portable amplifier. Besides these two modes, it has two classes as well: A and AB. Just from this, you can see that C9 gives you a lot of different sound signatures to explore. It takes both 3.5mm and 4.4mm input and outputs in both 3.5mm and 4.4mm - so again very flexible in how you want to connect your DAPs and IEMs/headphones to it.

An additional interesting point is that, unlike many portable amps that only take line-in signals, C9 can also take pre-amp signals. Its pre-amp mode is designed when your DAP does not really have a line-out function. In that case, you can simply use the regular headphone output and connect that with C9. C9 will then serve as a "power amp" that dramatically increases the power of the signals from your DAP. Unlike the regular line-in mode, where C9 takes up most of the job of delivering the sound signature of the output, in pre-mode the signature of the DAP is mostly preserved. This is ideal for DAPs like WM1Z, which has an excellent sound signature but has been known for its relatively weak output (in today's view). Then, the pre mode of C9 allows you to preserve the sound signature of the 1Z, but gives it a lot of power.

When I say C9 has a lot of power, don't worry, it works very well with sensitive IEMs. In fact, C9 is designed with such a goal in mind. In its low gain mode, C9 works well with virtually any IEMs. In its high gain mode, you get huge power that is enough to drive planars like Abyss Diana V2.


Performance

Here I am going to give an overview of C9's sound performance. Its pairing with my specific gears will be covered in the second part of the review (in a later, separate post). My source gears for this review include Cayin N6ii (E02/A02, both in line-out), Lotoo PAW Gold (line-out), and Hugo 2. My IEMs are Fir M5, UM Mest (with Iliad), and 64 U18t (with Socrates).



In its solid-state mode, I think the best term I can use to describe C9's performance is that it helps to reveal the music. With it, the sound is cleaner, the imaging and placing improve dramatically; you hear ALL the details of the music but in a nice and not "all in your face" manner. I think this is what impresses me the most. Different DAPs/sources I currently own could have different weaknesses in their sound. What C9 does (in line-in mode) is that it "reorganizes" the music and produces a well-rounded, comprehensive presentation of the music. I generally feel like the music coming out of C9 is what the music producers want it to be, and it is no longer limited by my DAPs.

In terms of general IEM pairing, it works really well with the three IEMs I own. I am happy to report that C9 does not work like Hugo 2 in giving a dominant sound signature such that different IEMs sound more or less the same (although in a good way). Instead, it helps to preserve the signature of the IEM rather well but pushes them to their full potential.

Meanwhile, I would say C9 does add some coloring to the music. I would say its signature is between LPG (which is extremely neutral IMO) and Hugo 2 (which is lush and pleasing). In SS mode it gets closer to the neutral end, and with tube mode, it gets closer to the lush/coloring end. I haven't had the time to compare Class A and Class AB. I mostly just go with Class A because it is my favorite, and it sounds fantastic. I did briefly try Class AB and it sounds almost as good, but it seems a bit softer to my ears than Class A.

Detailed Pairing with DAPs and IEM/Headphone

To be continued in a follow-up review post.

Short Conclusion

In my own experience, C9 is the single biggest improvement I have brought to my system. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should most likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section. I also want to quote the feedback from @KickAssChewGum which I totally agree with.

"I’m in total agreement with this. I couldn’t believe the improvement with my SP2000 plugged into the C9 and absolutely wasn’t expecting it to be anywhere near as drastic as it is. I’d go as far to say that the C9 is actually the one component that I’ve ever bought that has the most significant effect on sound (for the better). I’m massively impressed by what Cayin have achieved here. The C9 has made me a Cayin devotee for life and it’s literally the first Cayin product I’ve ever bought. I cannot recommend the C9 enough!"

To me, if you are quite happy with your current DAP, but want to upgrade your listening experience, C9 is an excellent choice. You get to keep what you enjoy with your existing DAP, such as its functionality and sound signature; meanwhile, C9 helps you to transform it into a world-class listening system. You also benefit from the great versatility of C9 for its various modes and sound signatures - You can always find one that suits your need, and you will never get bored,



Finally, I am really pleased that Cayin builds C9 with the goal that it is built to last. The VP of Cayin said that Cayin wants C9 to last for 5-10 years. In this process, the technology, especially the functionality of DAPs, will likely evolve quite dramatically. Think about what we had 3 years ago for the Andriod DAPs and the DAPs we have today like DX300, R8 that are at the same level in system functionality as flagship smartphones. So, when you are upgrading your DAPs in the future, with C9 you don't have to go from one flagship to another flagship. You can simply focus on getting the one that has the best functionality and suits your daily needs, and be confident with the fact that when paired with C9, it will always bring you a world-class music experience. C9 has really solid built, removable batteries for easy replacement and future upgrades, and TOTL sound performance. If you have the chance in the coming months, I will strongly recommend to reach out to your local dealers and request a demo unit to try it out yourself. I am sure that a lot of you will be pleasantly surprised by how the C9 can help you bring your current favorite DAPs to the next level.

Excellent write up buddy!! C9 will be on top of my list should one day I decide to build my portable system again :relaxed:

Edit: just realize there’s part 2 coming, look forward to that!
 
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Feb 14, 2021 at 9:04 AM Post #1,184 of 6,374
Fellow!

I just saw in Cayin’s Wechat group that the official C9 leather case will be available after CNY. The additional battery tray will be available for sale at the same time as well.
 
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Feb 14, 2021 at 9:09 AM Post #1,185 of 6,374
Excellent write up buddy!! C9 will be on top of my list should one day I decide to build my portable system again :relaxed:

Edit: just realize there’s part 2 coming, look forward to that!
Do it! Last night I was listening to my V2 with C9 and doing some comparisons with the Broadway. There are times that I honestly cannot tell the difference. C9 is really that good. :smile:
 

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