It appears the CE have additional amp stage for XLR, otherwise it would make no senses. However, I am not running any XLR but 4.4 and I would like my Korg Tubes with removable batteries. Also for my need at 800S and 300 ohms, the C9 is totally my cup of tea
As it was a huge size amp .. I was expecting some more power in class A for the C9..
For sure, I am a bit obsessed to be free to move in my home to listen to music where I want with my HEDDphone..
But with less than 2x1.5W at 42ohms there is for sure a real loss in the kicks the HEDDphone is able to give with low and ultra-low frequencies with clear, fast and deep impacts. Those kicks are even more impressive than my closed headphones like Ultrasone Ed15 veritas, Z7M2 and even my IEM IER-Z1R.
But I understand as it is announced, the C9 must be a very nice Item for you and many others.
As it was a huge size amp .. I was expecting some more power in class A ..
But I understand as it is announced, the C9 must be a very nice Item for you and many others.
I hope Cayin launched a desktop solution soon! The Apex Sangaku was one of if not the best hybrid Tube Amp I've heard and it ran the the Korg Nu Tubes, I'd love to see another desktop design built around it
Either way this looks like an astonishing portable!
Unfortunately, we don't have any plan to use Nutube for desktop product. We prefer to use transformer coupled designed for desktop tube amplifier and regular vacuum tube works better in this design.
Unfortunately, we don't have any plan to use Nutube for desktop product. We prefer to use transformer coupled designed for desktop tube amplifier and regular vacuum tube works better in this design.
Does that mean you and Cayin are saying that Korg Tubes are bad and not worth it to put in the Desktop designs ? Or there are no Korg tubes designs that is worth it to be in desktop gears yet ?
I wonder why you don’t prefer to make Korg tubes in desktop at all
I am fairly new to topologies and this "pre" option kind of confuses me.
Anyway, I use a Hugo2 with an r6pro as a transport. Now, this is what I want to do. If I only use my Hugo2 DAC and feed the signal to the c9 (note that Hugo2 is single ended), so it makes sense to feed SE to the c9 here. But most of my gear are 4.4mm terminated. With this setup I mentioned, what comes out of the balanced phone out of the c9? Clearly, the input is not balanced, but can it output through the balanced socket to the headphone/IEM (I know theoretically it won't be balanced) but I am just doing my research before shelling out the money.
If you look at the Functional Diagram of C9 in page 1, you probably noticed that C9 has built-in SE/BAL conversion function in the circuitry. So its perfectly alright, from functional point of view to feed the single end line output from Hugo or Hugo2 to C9 and use 4.4mm balanced phone out from C9.
While this function make life a lot easier to users, you cannot assume the SE input > BAL output is as good as the BAL input > BAL output. Take a closer look at the specification table closely, you'll notice the Dynamic range and SNR will drop a few dB when conversion is involved, to the extend that SE>SE direct will outperform SE>BAL conversion by 6-7 dB. The biggest different lies on Channel Separation of SE>BAL against BAL > BAL direct, 17dB and 20dB different respectively.
So you can enjoy the full benefit of extra power and handling (current) from differential amplification after the conversion, and the convenience of using any input for any output, but there is a small cost to pay for in dynamic range, and SNR.
Does that mean you and Cayin are saying that Korg Tubes are bad and not worth it to put in the Desktop designs ? Or there are no Korg tubes designs that is worth it to be in desktop gears yet ?
I wonder why you don’t prefer to make Korg tubes in desktop at all
You missed a key word here: transformer coupled tube amplifier design. We prefer traditional vacuum tube when we need to use output transformer. We didn't say Nutube is bad for desktop gears.
that sounds like a good plan, but better and more robust DAP would improve the experiences for sure. The implementations of power rails, supplies, and conversions would hugely be effecting the line out performances. May be N8 ? Or other TOTL like SP2K, LP P6Pro...etc...
I also believe they are very good matches to C9. Infact, any DAP with high quality line out can become a good source to C9.
If I remember it right, R8, for example, have un-amped balanced line out but DX220 does not offer that option. Therefor R8 is in a slightly better position in the matching game if you are using balanced phone out (based on my explanation of SE/BAL conversion function in previous post), but if you are using single-end phone out, that both DAP works find with C9.
I certainly want to find out if there is any magic between R2R discrete with Tube amplification. As you have put it, this a dream from the old school audiophiles. I am not so sure about Sigma Delta IC conversion because I have seen very good result when matched with both tube or solid state amplification.
By the way, is there any portable Delta-Sigma DAP or DAC that offers tube buffered stages on the line out? I didn't recall seeing something like that.
Nope, not to my knowledge, waiting for Cayin lol. I would love to see a dedicated high-end DAC-Line out alone with both High end SS and Tubes features. It would be a wet dream portable system for many with the C9
Indeed, the PRE-amp input mode has opened up a new horizon to portable amplifier IMHO.
Make sure you also compare the DAP line out to C9 line input vs DAP phone out to C9 PRE-amp input. If you have a low noise low power phone out, this will be a very fun exercise and you might be surprised by the result. Add this to your previous "4 devices in one" proposition, you now have 3 variables (Input mode, Class, Timbre), that give you 8 combinations in total:
Tube balanced Amp Class A in Line input mode
Tube balanced Amp Class AB in Line input mode
Solid State Balanced Amp Class A in Line input mode
Solid State Balanced Amp Class AB in Line input mode
Tube balanced Amp Class A in PRE-amp input mode
Tube balanced Amp Class AB in PRE-amp input mode
Solid State Balanced Amp Class A in PRE-amp input mode
Solid State Balanced Amp Class AB in PRE-amp input mode
We tried silicone bands, it doesn't work very well. the C9 is quite a bit larger than our DAP, and the N6ii has a fairly high screen-to-body ratio, so it looks ugly and inconvenience to operate when you have two silicon bands around N6ii. We didn't include a leather case to bundle N6ii with C9 because if we do that, we'll pass a wrong message to the public. C9 is not meant for N6ii exclusively. We expect C9 to have much longer product life than any DAP in the market, so custom make a DAP + C9 leather case is only a short-term solution.
I am looking at other options right now and I probably will go for reusable silicone pads. I have ordered some samples and hopefully it will arrive within a week, will share my experience if this work out OK.
Haha there was in Shark Tank some entrepreneurs with their pads that "let you stick your phone to a wall" and I was like why would anyone stick their phone to a wall but that might work for audio stacks
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lol. I would love to see a dedicated high-end DAC-Line out alone with both High end SS and Tubes features. It would be a wet dream portable system for many with the C9! I can not wait actually!
