[3rddimension]

I myself have huge difference between SE/XLR with my Benchmark, I'm guessing a 6dB difference. In SE it's 2 volts, XLR 4 volts output. I think it depends on the DAC.

Interesting...Thanks for the input.

 

[m usicguy]

I have 5 days on my LC with new blanced headphone cable.  New Balanced innerconnects,  Plus new USB gustard u12 converter.  And New AES balanced digital cable.  Pretty much a new set up.  So far, after 5 days ,this are starting to open back up and sound amazing.  Ive never heard this much depth in a headphone set up.  Before sound was very 2D,   Very much 3D now.
 
From this 

  to this  

 
musicguy

 

[zachawry]

I had been using my LC on 3X, even with the easy-to-drive Ethers. 3X seems to provide a little bit more "punch" or a more aggressive sound. 
 
Lately, though, I've been enjoying the 1X. It's a minor difference at most, but I think 1X has a little bit more "space" to it. It's a more subtle sound. Again, very small differences that could be all in my head, but that's what I think I'm hearing. 

 

[coastal1]

I had been using my LC on 3X, even with the easy-to-drive Ethers. 3X seems to provide a little bit more "punch" or a more aggressive sound. 

Lately, though, I've been enjoying the 1X. It's a minor difference at most, but I think 1X has a little bit more "space" to it. It's a more subtle sound. Again, very small differences that could be all in my head, but that's what I think I'm hearing. 

For headphones like the HD650 that aren't (relatively) hard to drive, should using 1x gain with higher volume vs. 3x gain with lower volume make a difference?  I haven't experimented much, but seem to slightly prefer 3x gain with low volume seems as it seems to provide more punch, but could all be in my mind.

I posted about this previously w/ my HD650. I know there are some strong schools of thought about the 'right way' to use gain on certain amps, but wasn't sure if there was a difference either way for this particular amp as I hadn't read anything about it or experimented much.

I've since experimented more and agree with your comments, though for me the differences for me are not very subtle. 3X/low volume gives me much more punch, bass, and attack. 1x/higher volume gives me more soundstage and weightlessness.

What I prefer largely depends on what I'm listening to and to a lesser degree my mood. But there is quite a noticeable difference to me

 

[sling5s]

HEADFONIA TIPS: KEEP YOUR AMPS AT LOW GAIN
http://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-tips-keep-your-amps-at-low-gain/
Yes, higher gain makes the amp sound punchier and more aggressive. 
Low gain more smoother and clean. 

 

[adobotj]

I had been using my LC on 3X, even with the easy-to-drive Ethers. 3X seems to provide a little bit more "punch" or a more aggressive sound. 

Lately, though, I've been enjoying the 1X. It's a minor difference at most, but I think 1X has a little bit more "space" to it. It's a more subtle sound. Again, very small differences that could be all in my head, but that's what I think I'm hearing. 

I posted about this previously w/ my HD650. I know there are some strong schools of thought about the 'right way' to use gain on certain amps, but wasn't sure if there was a difference either way for this particular amp as I hadn't read anything about it or experimented much.

I've since experimented more and agree with your comments, though for me the differences for me are not very subtle. 3X/low volume gives me much more punch, bass, and attack. 1x/higher volume gives me more soundstage and weightlessness.

What I prefer largely depends on what I'm listening to and to a lesser degree my mood. But there is quite a noticeable difference to me

I'm not sure if this is accurate but, I think the reason why the 1x gain has more 'space' or 'soundstage' or 'weightlessness' is because the 1x gain provides a more black-er background creating more space between instruments and wider soundstage.

I also share similar experience with you guys as I tried experimenting before with my rsa intruder using very sensitive iems. On high gain there's more punch, bass and attack. But on low gain it has more space between instruments and opened up the soundstage a bit.

 

[mandrake50]

My guess is that if people carefully volume matched low and high gain (to .1 db or less) they would notice little to no difference  between 1X and 3X gain settings. It is really not easy, if at all possible to set levels by ear to the point that volume level will not make more difference in perceived sound than anything that the electronics in the amp does differently.
 
Something curious that I noticed when I was checking for noise. Even though the balanced out of the Infinity is rated at over twice the voltage (at zero DB) as the line outs, the resulting sound level was greater using the line inputs on the LC. Certainly not what I expected.
 
I really must take out some of my other DACs that have both outputs and see what the results are for the same test with them.

 

[coastal1]

  My guess is that if people carefully volume matched low and high gain (to .1 db or less) they would notice little to no difference  between 1X and 3X gain settings. It is really not easy, if at all possible to set levels by ear to the point that volume level will not make more difference in perceived sound than anything that the electronics in the amp does differently.
 
Something curious that I noticed when I was checking for noise. Even though the balanced out of the Infinity is rated at over twice the voltage (at zero DB) as the line outs, the resulting sound level was greater using the line inputs on the LC. Certainly not what I expected.
 
I really must take out some of my other DACs that have both outputs and see what the results are for the same test with them.

 
Completely agree that it's very difficult/impossible to volume match by ear.  But for me w/ the HD650 the bass is noticeably lower in the mix at 1X even if I overcompensate on volume.  The bass presence is much easier to hear by ear.

 

[jarnopp]

I'm not sure if this is accurate but, I think the reason why the 1x gain has more 'space' or 'soundstage' or 'weightlessness' is because the 1x gain provides a more black-er background creating more space between instruments and wider soundstage.

I also share similar experience with you guys as I tried experimenting before with my rsa intruder using very sensitive iems. On high gain there's more punch, bass and attack. But on low gain it has more space between instruments and opened up the soundstage a bit.

Probably would need Alex to weigh in definitively, as the designer, but I still wonder what is active in 1x mode? The phase splitter, the vol pot, but other than than, there could be a wire between the inputs and the volume on 1x, removing the circuit and leaving essentially only the source.

 

[coastal1]

I'm not sure if this is accurate but, I think the reason why the 1x gain has more 'space' or 'soundstage' or 'weightlessness' is because the 1x gain provides a more black-er background creating more space between instruments and wider soundstage.

I also share similar experience with you guys as I tried experimenting before with my rsa intruder using very sensitive iems. On high gain there's more punch, bass and attack. But on low gain it has more space between instruments and opened up the soundstage a bit.

 
I don't know, I guess 'black background' means different things to different people, but for me it's complete silence/no hiss, most importantly when there is music playing but it's a silent or very quiet part in the music.
 
With the LC/HD650, I still have a black background at 3x.  Could obviously be different for iems or even closed headphones
 
.

 

[XenHeadFi]

  My guess is that if people carefully volume matched low and high gain (to .1 db or less) they would notice little to no difference  between 1X and 3X gain settings. It is really not easy, if at all possible to set levels by ear to the point that volume level will not make more difference in perceived sound than anything that the electronics in the amp does differently.
 

 
I originally thought that 3x gain sounded vastly different than 1x until I took my DMM and measured output voltage. I found knob positions where 1x matched 3x for output, and I heard no difference. Now, instead of listening at ~8:45 on 3x, I listen at ~10:45 on 1x. I still have plenty of headroom as 1:00 is uncomfortably loud at 1x.

 

[wym2]

  I had been using my LC on 3X, even with the easy-to-drive Ethers. 3X seems to provide a little bit more "punch" or a more aggressive sound. 
 
Lately, though, I've been enjoying the 1X. It's a minor difference at most, but I think 1X has a little bit more "space" to it. It's a more subtle sound. Again, very small differences that could be all in my head, but that's what I think I'm hearing. 

 
I spent 3+ weeks at 1x and now baking the LC at 3x (over 100 + hrs) only listening thru HE400i - very easy to drive. Definite difference. I feel there have been positive changes running the LC at 3x: So far a more “solid” soundstage, maybe a slight clearing up/separation of massed instruments in large symphonies. 
 
 
MBP → SDragon → Mojo →AQ Big Sur trs →LC

 

[Peridot]

Probably would need Alex to weigh in definitively, as the designer, but I still wonder what is active in 1x mode? The phase splitter, the vol pot, but other than than, there could be a wire between the inputs and the volume on 1x, removing the circuit and leaving essentially only the source.

 
Everything is active in each mode. The only difference is the gain. In 1x the amp is acting as a unity (voltage) gain device, but the full power and dynamic performance of the amplifier circuit is available. 
 
If the gain switch were acting as a bypass the effects would be very different and much more noticeable. 

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

With my Z7, I found myself listening at higher volume on high gain.  That would definitely alter one's opinion...

 

[jarnopp]

Everything is active in each mode. The only difference is the gain. In 1x the amp is acting as a unity (voltage) gain device, but the full power and dynamic performance of the amplifier circuit is available. 

If the gain switch were acting as a bypass the effects would be very different and much more noticeable. 

Thanks. Not being an EE, can you give an example of how this would impact the source at 1x? My dac signal comes in, say at 2v RMS, and some dynamic passage of music with my headphone combo needs more, say 3v, to sound right. Does 1x do anything to help in that case?