[Levanter]

I can’t believe I forgot, didn’t they start of by making “affordable custom iems” ?

Yes, but money and fame got to them

 

[tim0chan]

familiarise with it?? The principal is utterly simple! The details are just to explain how and why the principal work.
It is simply a mechanical mean to relive sound pressure, by punching a hole on the IEM housing. All the R&D then goes into finding an optimal hole size and shape, and an optimal spot to punch it, in such a way that the acoustics are preserved reasonably well. This is not at all mathematically complex or numerically expensive to simulate, nor engineeringly challenging to realize.

and what you meant by "supposed to be tuned different for every iem"??? Who supposed it?
They publicly announced it? And other ones did not, and said something like "everything we have are tuned alike with subtle difference in the details..."??

Read my next post pls.
Also, since you want to open the can of worms and since I'm feeling bored. Here goes...
In 2013( I think) 1964 ears (64 audio) was approached by this company called asius technology, offering them a new technology to relieve pressure and improve sound. It is called Adel. The Adel modules function by having a movable membrane in a vented module. The membrane absorbs pneumatic pressure. However, the module changed the sound too much and the new line has to be retuned around the new sound. Fast forward to 2016 and a disagreement over QC lead 64 to split with asius. They now had to develop their own modules that sound the same at least. So they developed apex which does not have a membrane but instead has laser precision ports to allow pressure release.
As for the exorbitant costs. U can attribute that to rnd today.
Traditionally, manufacturers of ba based iems could tweak them by adjusting: the driver type, the number of drivers, the crossovers and length, material of sound tubes and placement of filters. While dynamic drivers experiment on the airflow of the housing, the magnets, and the coating of the diaphragm. ( I cannot comment too much on DD development).
For ba, the traditional means have practically reached their limits for off the shelf bas. Now, they have to develop their own bas which is not cheap. Then, they have to push the limits further pioneering new crossover technology of fine-tuning the response curve or creating new technologies like resonance chambers.
I think the bulk of the cost would be the development of new bas. For some companies, manpower costs can be expensive, especially to assemble custom iems

 

[tim0chan]

Glad to notice that someone here actually acknowledges the history of 64 Audio.

To ba fair, 3d printing isn't cheap. And yes, while I may not agree with the pricing, they do sound damn good

 

[sansfin]

To ba fair, 3d printing isn't cheap. And yes, while I may not agree with the pricing, they do sound damn good

The market works just as intended - but every time I look at Tia's price tag, I have to take a glance at oBravo's lineup to be consoled.

 

[eldss]

Glad to notice that someone here actually acknowledges the history of 64 Audio.

They're not the only ones. That's the trend for IEM manufacturers. Noticed how Inearz also raised their prices significantly? But as it's been said before, they will keep raising prices, as long as people continue to pay up. Yes, there is R&D involved and the "hole" conversation mentioned above is more complicated than stated, but the point is that even with R&D the margins just keep raising. It's even worse with cable companies and their reported ridiculous margins. But we are partly guilty, as I've noticed that most people around here don't seem to pay much attention to mid range priced companies, as we are always looking for and touting the next greatest thing. And we are looking for an expensive upgrade cable before even having received a product.

I found it interesting that Empire Ears’ new line-up didn't raise the prices too much. They stayed around the $2,200 mark for their most expensive model which is less than their prior flagship. But I couldn't help, but notice that they don't have anything to offer in the sub $600 range. That's the range I can see a lot of companies offering bang for your buck and where they could compete.

 

[eldss]

Read my next post pls.
Also, since you want to open the can of worms and since I'm feeling bored. Here goes...
In 2013( I think) 1964 ears (64 audio) was approached by this company called asius technology, offering them a new technology to relieve pressure and improve sound. It is called Adel. The Adel modules function by having a movable membrane in a vented module. The membrane absorbs pneumatic pressure. However, the module changed the sound too much and the new line has to be retuned around the new sound. Fast forward to 2016 and a disagreement over QC lead 64 to split with asius. They now had to develop their own modules that sound the same at least. So they developed apex which does not have a membrane but instead has laser precision ports to allow pressure release.
As for the exorbitant costs. U can attribute that to rnd today.
Traditionally, manufacturers of ba based iems could tweak them by adjusting: the driver type, the number of drivers, the crossovers and length, material of sound tubes and placement of filters. While dynamic drivers experiment on the airflow of the housing, the magnets, and the coating of the diaphragm. ( I cannot comment too much on DD development).
For ba, the traditional means have practically reached their limits for off the shelf bas. Now, they have to develop their own bas which is not cheap. Then, they have to push the limits further pioneering new crossover technology of fine-tuning the response curve or creating new technologies like resonance chambers.
I think the bulk of the cost would be the development of new bas. For some companies, manpower costs can be expensive, especially to assemble custom iems

Besides R&D, you got to realize that some of these companies also have large staff so they have to pay salaries, benefits (which aren't cheap), incur marketing costs, pay to show-up @ every tradeshow, etc. Smaller companies can get away when it's a 1-3 people operation, but once you scale up, you open yourself for additional expenses. Still doesn't excuse some ridiculous prices we see, but that should also be accounted on a company's overhead costs.

 

[ezekiel77]

Thank you icefalkon, I was very impressed w/ the IT01 & IT04. I was about to drop a $1k on the CA Vegas and changed my mind after listening to the IT04’s. I’ll hold off till there released.

Any idea about the release date and price of the IT04? Are they still doing all-wood shells?

 

[LoryWiv]

I didn’t go to Camjam this year (spent too much last year, so didn’t want to jeopardize my marriage), but I will say that although it’s a great opportunity to hear a lot of things, it is a less than ideal listening environment. Last year, I went in with the goal of looking to buy a couple things (a “totl” headphone and an amp or DAC/amp) and listened to as many things as I could in those categories with the goal of narrowing down finalists. I was fortunate to meet a dealer that helped me pinpoint what I like, and I made my purchases later.

My point is that CanJam is great for separating what for you is good and bad, but not the best for hearing differences once you are high up on the diminishing returns slope.

Agree, and well said. However by Sunday afternoon as the crowd thinned out a bit I could return to a select few items of interest and listen more critically, especially closed back cans and IEM's. Even for those it's really more about general characteristics (build quality, fit / finish / comfort, and perhaps a "warm" versus "bright" sound signature) without being able to discern much more. Still, there was great energy in the room and spending some time with fellow music and personal audio equipment enthusiasts made for a great experience. I didn't buy anything at the show but have a much better idea of what I want to research further and potentially purchase thereafter.

 

[tim0chan]

They're not the only ones. That's the trend for IEM manufacturers. Noticed how Inearz also raised their prices significantly? But as it's been said before, they will keep raising prices, as long as people continue to pay up. Yes, there is R&D involved and the "hole" conversation mentioned above is more complicated than stated, but the point is that even with R&D the margins just keep raising. It's even worse with cable companies and their reported ridiculous margins. But we are partly guilty, as I've noticed that most people around here don't seem to pay much attention to mid range priced companies, as we are always looking for and touting the next greatest thing. And we are looking for an expensive upgrade cable before even having received a product.

I found it interesting that Empire Ears new line-up didn't raise the prices too much. They stayed around the $2,200 mark for their most expensive model which is less than their prior flagship. But I couldn't help, but notice that they don't have anything to offer in the sub $600 range. That's the range I can see a lot of companies offering bang for your buck and where they could compete.

The cheapest of the lineup sits at 600 almost flat. It does sound really good from experience

 

[ArthurPower]

A few pics from the show...

Cheers!

 

[up late]

Love these 5 minute demo show reviews.

lol! luv diana owners responses to unfavourable impressions. how much time do you think he needed to spend with it in order to know that it felt too uncomfortable for him to focus on its sound quality?

 

[icefalkon]

I was the guy with the Angie’s. Hope you got yours cleaned. Lol

Hey! I remember you now.

Ha! Yeah, they not only cleaned my Angies, but they saw that my balanced cable was worn near the ear hook and they gave me a brand new one! I was like REALLY?

How cool is that of them to do that?

But I forgot to get a damn sticker...again.

 

[icefalkon]

Any idea about the release date and price of the IT04? Are they still doing all-wood shells?

No, if you read back a few pages you'll see the entire "discussion" ahem...lol.

No the production IT04's have an acrylic shell with a ear flange. The wood ones weren't production pieces. The price is $499 and the release is supposed to be very soon.

 

[icefalkon]

I forgot to give a shout out to the guys at JH Audio for cleaning my Angies and the new cable...thank you very much guys...

And to the guys at Meze for great customer care when I brought my Classic 99's back to them at the end of the show and just gave me a new one. Very classy and thank you for that!

 

[lugnut]

Considering the price of some of the flagships these days I think $3,000 is actually reasonable for this level of performance and quality.

Sorry, I do not agree. . Real world, rest of the country would not think $3000 is a reasonable price for a pair of headphones
Just my opinion, maybe the rest of us can get in on a little trickle down technology for a more sensible price.