[Burninate35]

I feel like lossless files make my head feel better than anything less does. I think that because lossless has everything that is supposed to be there my brain is not expecting to hear anything. I immediately felt more relaxed when I listened to lossless files. I could be just making all of this up but this was my experience.

 

[my.self]

my fuze can play flac and lossless files, but i choose not to because flac is about 4 times as much space at .mp3 file.

 

[DarKu]

i have only lossless in my daps (cowon d2, sansa clip) and i can easily hear more details/dynamics in my music comparing with mp3's or other high bitrate formats

You just need a good IEM or a good portable phone, that's all
i will never ever go back mp3's that's for sure

 

[swanlee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarKu /img/forum/go_quote.gif i have only lossless in my daps (cowon d2, sansa clip) and i can easily hear more details/dynamics in my music comparing with mp3's or other high bitrate formats You just need a good IEM or a good portable phone, that's all i will never ever go back mp3's that's for sure

Yep same boat for me, I have the space on my 100GB upgraded Zune30, it can hold 300 CD's in Full WMA lossless quality. Why would I even bother with Lossy?

Sad that people want to go backwards in sound quality.

Yea depending on the track you may or may not be able to tell some of the time.

Why bother even worrying about it, just listen to the lossless files and ejoy the music.

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarKu /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... i can easily hear more details/dynamics in my music comparing with mp3's or other high bitrate formats

Easily huh? I can fix that for you. I can't talk about the cure but its initials are ABX...

 

[swanlee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILikeMusic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Easily huh? I can fix that for you. I can't talk about the cure but its initials are ABX...

Go to home Depot, and pick 5 paint color sample cards that are in sequence in the same shade of color, they will end up being similar shades of the same color.

Mark them 1-5 on the back and do a visual ABX on them. Bet your scores suck, but that doesn't mean those samples are all the same color does it?

ABX much like lossy encoded audio is a neat parlor trick but in the case of lossy encoded audio their is a definite mathematical difference, you are losing data why choose to cut out audio from music?

This isn't audio cables or amps we are talking about this is audio files with missing data you don't need ABX to tell you your missing something from the music, it's a mathematical fact.

 

[Young Spade]

Mine isn't the top of the line, but kinda between mid-low range.
Nano 4G -> Copper/Gold Lod -> iBasso T4 -> PFE 112s.

I can barely hear the difference between lossless and mp3 320, so I decided to just go with the mp3 version and stick all of my music on my player.
Plus now, I don't have that nagging idea of getting an iMod or something

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanlee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Go to home Depot, and pick 5 paint color sample cards that are in sequence in the same shade of color, they will end up being similar shades of the same color. Mark them 1-5 on the back and do a visual ABX on them. Bet your scores suck, but that doesn't mean those samples are all the same color does it? ABX much like lossy encoded audio is a neat parlor trick but in the case of lossy encoded audio their is a definite mathematical difference, you are losing data why choose to cut out audio from music? This isn't audio cables or amps we are talking about this is audio files with missing data you don't need ABX to tell you your missing something from the music, it's a mathematical fact.

you are talking about two completely different things. a paint card is no compressed versus another. that would probably be more akin to comparing lossy or lossless encoders of the same bitrate against eachother to taste the differing codec 'flavour' or see the differences in 'shade' or how the de-encoder works.

until you do an abx properly, it is rather like saying, i can touch the moon or walk on water.

edit: i do completely agree that if you are worried, sticking with lossless is the best way for you to enjoy your music as you will always hear differences if you are worried about the files. i think the argument goes very far at headfi - there is so much hearsay and little proof. some people do take part in tests and come to realise the limits of their hearing but most just take the opinion of their next door neighbour and refuse to do abx or have some smart way to get out of an abx.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILikeMusic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Easily huh? I can fix that for you. I can't talk about the cure but its initials are ABX...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif until you do an abx properly, it is rather like saying, i can touch the moon or walk on water.

You guys are completely ignoring the flaws in ABX tests that have been established in some of the most recent articles on their application in the audio field.

 

[bixby]

It was hard for me to hear it on most stuff. I ran many files with wav versus 320vbr mp3 on a Zen V Plus and with lowly EP-630s. Most of the time it was close, but after listening to a whole set of mp3 versus wav, the mp3 had some annoying quality or missing some clarity. That sold me on going strictly lossless. Who knows how obvious it might be with my better phones and players.

 

[iriverdude]

I can tell loss even with high bitrate MP3, but try high bitrate OGG. Much harder.

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif You guys are completely ignoring the flaws in ABX tests that have been established in some of the most recent articles on their application in the audio field.

so you are suggesting to read an article to understand how to disprove an abx? is that article going to show me how to understand the flaws of a certain type of reasoning? would that not take credit away from the non-abx crowd as it asks for outside sources? i have read many of the documents: the arguments make little to no sense, but that is fine.

like i have said: i have seen people hear the differences between the exact same lossless file. one was much worse than the other and lacked highs and transcience. it was the one labelled mp3.

i think the thing we are looking for is this -- someone to be ballsie enough to do proper abx. if you can hear differences and prove it, then yeah, that is cool. if not, then dude, like i said: with my super equipment i can feel the singer lick my ear, yeah it is that much different wav to flac which only gives me a sense of a moist mouth. that is the truth, the damndest truth.

 

[paaj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif like i have said: i have seen people hear the differences between the exact same lossless file. one was much worse than the other and lacked highs and transcience. it was the one labelled mp3.

if you reverse this, it's highly possible that someone does not hear differences between lossless and mp3 just because he does not believe in differences.

I don't really care either way, but lossless makes me happier, even if I only think I hear it.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif so you are suggesting to read an article to understand how to disprove an abx? is that article going to show me how to understand the flaws of a certain type of reasoning? would that not take credit away from the non-abx crowd as it asks for outside sources? i have read many of the documents: the arguments make little to no sense, but that is fine. like i have said: i have seen people hear the differences between the exact same lossless file. one was much worse than the other and lacked highs and transcience. it was the one labelled mp3. i think the thing we are looking for is this -- someone to be ballsie enough to do proper abx. if you can hear differences and prove it, then yeah, that is cool. if not, then dude, like i said: with my super equipment i can feel the singer lick my ear, yeah it is that much different wav to flac which only gives me a sense of a moist mouth. that is the truth, the damndest truth.

When you and others refer to ABX, is that the same thing as a DBT, i.e., double blind test? Or does the term "ABX" also include a single blind test? Is your argument that the test needs to be double blind, or is single blind o.k.?

Also, I'm not following what you're saying. Are you saying you can hear the differences between bit rates, but you'd like to see someone prove it in a proper ABX or DBT? I thought there were such tests?

Also, there was a pretty good discussion in the Sound Science forum about setting up some parameters for a DBT with amps or cables, I forget which, but I think it was on the thread entitled "Let's Prove The Null Hypothesis." Anyway, there's several comments from some very knowledge folks there which illuminate the problems with DBT's, or ABX tests, or whatever you want to call them. It will be interesting to see if they can set up a good one.

 

[Navyblue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinders /img/forum/go_quote.gif as to 320 vs. lossless, i may just be crazy but I think I do hear a difference, not really in quality, but i think mp3 sounds.....warmer, whereas lossless sounds more neutral. *shrugs* zune > 4" vampire copper, neutrik plugs > fiio e5 > yuin pk1

I'm not sure if I am hearing things too, but it might be that you are not alone in this.

I haven't tried to compare, but I thought since I re ripped my library to WMA lossless I have to get use to new sound that seems to be more treble heavy.

I hope it is not due to Zune having trouble decoding either the MP3 or WMA lossless. Or it may be that as others said MP3 encoder are just audibly not transparent.