[ProtegeManiac]

  Hey guys, I know its too late to pick up the K7XX Massdrop anymore but I do have the intention of picking up a K712. 
 
I read that the K7XX Massdrop edition is essentially a K702 with 3db of bass boost. However, the K712 box also shows 3db of bass boost and from what I have heard the K712 is the same thing as the K702 65th edition.
 
So my question would be are there any technical differences between the two? This may help me decide whether to wait for another K7XX drop or just go ahead with the K712s. The K712's are $300 more than the K7XX Massdrop that would lead me to assume that the K712s at least somewhat more sonically competent than the K7XX Massdrop editions. I tried to search comparisons between these two without much luck. Therefore, I am wondering if anyone can assist me in helping me explain the difference between these two.
 
I am quite new to the world of full-size headphones so please excuse my ignorance. Any help would be greatly appreciated here! 

 

K7XX has flat earpads similar to the K612, the K712 has the angled earpads common in all the K7-- series. Imaging will be slightly deeper in the ones using angled earpads, with the cymbals less forward, vocals slightly more clearly forward. Note that you can always just get the angled pads for the K7XX later in case you want to try them out. The difference might not be a lot to you for the price of a pair though, but check how much the K7XX/K612 pads are from AKG. If the price isn't too far off might as well get the angled pads. Just never get the K701 pads as these are supposedly less dense, which is one reason why the K701's bass response rolls off early.

 

[Me x3]

 

 

K7XX has flat earpads similar to the K612, the K712 has the angled earpads common in all the K7-- series. Imaging will be slightly deeper in the ones using angled earpads, with the cymbals less forward, vocals slightly more clearly forward. Note that you can always just get the angled pads for the K7XX later in case you want to try them out. The difference might not be a lot to you for the price of a pair though, but check how much the K7XX/K612 pads are from AKG. If the price isn't too far off might as well get the angled pads. Just never get the K701 pads as these are supposedly less dense, which is one reason why the K701's bass response rolls off early.

 
As far as I know, the AKGs K712 don't have angled earpads.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  As far as I know, the AKGs K712 don't have angled earpads.

Didn't come across this in reviews so I just assumed they continued having the angled pads.

 

[Shredder11]

  Hi Shredder11,
 
Thank you very much for the extended reply!
From what i understand this is referred to as the Panda stack right?
I find it pretty difficult to justify somewhat more expensive DAC/AMP setups other than for practicality and eyecandy reasons sinds i think my hearing isn't trained enough yet.
Also after reading some reviews and watching some z-review video's on youtube it doesn't really become clear to me where the sound differs other than "more responsive, more clean" or with tubes "more warm" sound signature. The current cheap Dragonfly's i own already cleans up this sound in combo with the Audioquest Jitterbug and make it more responsive to my hearing. I used to own the Fostex HP-A8 DAC/AMP combo and didn't notice a big difference on other headphones i previously owned, then again maybe these headphones weren't as sensitive to a more expensive DAC/AMP combo as the AKG K712 Pro's are described to be. I am hoping you could clearify a little bit on the combination you are using by a/bing the sound signature. I know this kinda sounds contradicting to say "my hearing isn't trained enough so i dont hear any difference" but im still really curious in how you experience this yourself.
 
Best regards!

 
That is a hard question to answer but I can assure you the higher quality performance is there, but whether you are able to appreciate this only you will know.  From my own experience I know that if I had heard the SMSL M8 thirty years ago, the extra audio quality would have been lost on me.  However decades of home and commercial studio recording and mixing, has trained my ears to hear small quality differences and things happening at various frequencies.  I often say to people while we are listening to music, "can you hear that?" and they say, "hear what?", and even when I wave my hand in time with what is happening, they still can not hear it.  Other times it is usually tonal faults while mixing, which many people seem to not hear.
 
I recently added a pair of AKG K271 MkII closed back headphones to my collection, and although they are very capable they are nowhere near in the same league as the K712 PRO.  However certain music can sound more appealing on the K271 MkII from a tonal point of view, even though the wider soundstage and amazing silky smooth detail is not present like on the K712 PRO.  I've owned the K712 PRO for about fourteen months now, and I knew from the moment I first heard them they were perfect for me and my opinion has not changed since.  They are also the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn, although I do have a large head.  I found this out when I picked up my friend's headphones and I very slowly and carefully put them over my head, and then the headband snapped in two;  I did not do anything wrong it was just that my friend has a much smaller head than me.  I've read of some people on this forum complaining that the K712 PRO tend to slip off their heads, but I have had no problems at all.

 

[martijn397]

Hi Shredder11,
 
Thank you very much for the detailed information!
Based on what you are saying i think im gonna find myself a DAC/AMP combo sinds i can better learn to appreciate the better quality than just be without it at all.
I am currently looking into the SHIIT (Modi 2 /Vali 2) setup sinds the SMSL setup is pretty hard to get in the Netherlands and i dont really trust Ebay enough.
When i get the setup i finally get i will let you kow my impressions!
 
Thanks again en best regards!

 

[Shredder11]

  Hi Shredder11,
 
Thank you very much for the detailed information!
Based on what you are saying i think im gonna find myself a DAC/AMP combo sinds i can better learn to appreciate the better quality than just be without it at all.
I am currently looking into the SHIIT (Modi 2 /Vali 2) setup sinds the SMSL setup is pretty hard to get in the Netherlands and i dont really trust Ebay enough.
When i get the setup i finally get i will let you kow my impressions!
 
Thanks again en best regards!

 
I bought my SMSL setup from an Ebay seller called pericross, who seemed to be recommended on this forum too.  The price a year ago from him was £299 GBP but I offered £255 GBP which was accepted, and I had an Ebay voucher for £25.50 which meant a total of £229.50 GBP.  The current price for the same bundle on his Ebay shop is £357.73 GBP, which is more than last year of course.  The Ebay listing number for the M8 bundle is 322065879273
 
I notice there is an SMSL M9 model now which features an integrated headphone amp, a larger display and handles higher quality DSD512, up to 768KHz and has balanced audio output via a 4-pole jack plug socket.  The Ebay item number is 321714218322

 

[martijn397]

Hi Shredder11,
 
Sadly the Ebay seller does not ship to the Netherlands but i think i found one with free worldwide shipping here:
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-m9-ak4390ef-32bit-768khz-dsd512-hifi-dac-decoder-balance-headphone-amplifier.html
 
I will do some little research about this webshop so i dont get scammed.
 
Thanks for the fantastic help!
I'm really flabbergasted

 

[martijn397]

Hi Shredder11,
 
I'm currently looking at the new SMSL line-up and found that the T1 (hybrid tube) already gets a great review over at headfonia.
Cant find any impressions yet about the other new models like the M9 (you mentioned) and AD18
I'm also looking at the SMSL AD18 which is alot cheaper (about 130usd) but has a remote control that would really come in handy.
Have not seen any reviews about the AD18 so allthough its very cheap im not gonna jump ship just yet.
Think im gonna wait a little longer to see some reviews come out about the new M9, T1 and AD18.
 
The AKG K712 Pro is already ordered though
Hope that the sound is "bearable" for a little while straight out of a Macbook Pro.
 
Best regards!

 

[Ling Vu]

Hi Shredder11,

I'm currently looking at the new SMSL line-up and found that the T1 (hybrid tube) already gets a great review over at headfonia.
Cant find any impressions yet about the other new models like the M9 (you mentioned) and AD18
I'm also looking at the SMSL AD18 which is alot cheaper (about 130usd) but has a remote control that would really come in handy.
Have not seen any reviews about the AD18 so allthough its very cheap im not gonna jump ship just yet.
Think im gonna wait a little longer to see some reviews come out about the new M9, T1 and AD18.

The AKG K712 Pro is already ordered though
Hope that the sound is "bearable" for a little while straight out of a Macbook Pro.

Best regards!

Hi, I am currently in the same situation as you were with the DT1990 and considering some changes. How have you been finding the K712? How does it sound compared to the DT1990?

Thanks.

 

[martijn397]

Hi, I am currently in the same situation as you were with the DT1990 and considering some changes. How have you been finding the K712? How does it sound compared to the DT1990?

Thanks.

Hi Ling Vu,
 
It has been a while since i last listened to both the K712's and DT1990's so comparing them is a little bit difficult but i'll try to give it my best shot.
After doing some more research for a DAC/AMP combo to use with the K712 Pro's i ended up buying the Aune X1s which i still use today only with a different headphone.
 
Keep in mind that the only reason i started searching for something different than the DT1990 was mostly due to comfort issues, the high clamping force was killing me. The sound on the DT1990's were fine for me, especially the 3D effect and "crispness" thanks to the tesla driver. My first impressions of the K712 Pro's were that compared to the DT1990's they sounded a little bit muddy. The mids were more apparant but less detailed than on the DT1990's, also the bass on the K712 Pro's was alot higher in volume but less textured and sounded more boomy to my ears.
In short i have to say that allthough you get more of everything on the K712 Pro's it's also much less detailed and does not have the 3D effect or depth in it's soundstage. Comfort wise the K712 Pro's started to hurt the top of my ears after 2 or 3 hours listening sinds the earcups seem to be hanging instead of evenly distributing their weight.
 
After about 3 months i sold them and got back to my default DT770 Pro's (80ohm).
I decided to invested some more money last week into a Focal Elear which i just received this week and am currently testing.
 
I know this is pretty short so if you want to know more details, just ask!
 
Best regards

 

[Ling Vu]

Hi Ling Vu,

It has been a while since i last listened to both the K712's and DT1990's so comparing them is a little bit difficult but i'll try to give it my best shot.
After doing some more research for a DAC/AMP combo to use with the K712 Pro's i ended up buying the Aune X1s which i still use today only with a different headphone.

Keep in mind that the only reason i started searching for something different than the DT1990 was mostly due to comfort issues, the high clamping force was killing me. The sound on the DT1990's were fine for me, especially the 3D effect and "crispness" thanks to the tesla driver. My first impressions of the K712 Pro's were that compared to the DT1990's they sounded a little bit muddy. The mids were more apparant but less detailed than on the DT1990's, also the bass on the K712 Pro's was alot higher in volume but less textured and sounded more boomy to my ears.
In short i have to say that allthough you get more of everything on the K712 Pro's it's also much less detailed and does not have the 3D effect or depth in it's soundstage. Comfort wise the K712 Pro's also started to hurt my top of my ears after 2 or 3 hours listening sinds the earcups seem to be hanging instead of evenly distributing their weight.

After about 3 months i sold them and got back to my default DT770 Pro's (80ohm).
I infested some more money last week into a Focal Elear which i just received this week so am still testing.

I know this is pretty short so if you want to know more details, just ask!

Best regards

That's very specific and not too far from what I've read, much appreciated. Which dac/amp combo you used to drive the the DT1990 btw?

The Elear was wonderful with the reference setup by Focal at the show I attended, much more impressive than the HD800/HD800s.

 

[martijn397]

That's very specific and not too far from what I've read, much appreciated. Which dac/amp combo you used to drive the the DT1990 btw?

The Elear was wonderful with the reference setup by Focal at the show I attended, much more impressive than the HD800/HD800s.

No problem!

I used different ones like the Chord Mojo, Audioquest Dragonfly "both" Black & Red and even the Creative X7 for a while.
Had the HD800 in my collection for a while and found them sounding fantastic for a good gaming session which i frequently do.
For longer listening sessions though  "unless when in a very critical listening mood" i didn't find them as relaxed as the Elear's nor as dynamic while keeping the smooth relaxed sound.
Even the comfort wasn't perfect for me as they started to hurt my jaw after some time. At the moment im really enjoying the Elear's but im sure i will grow old of these also after a while

 

[Ling Vu]

  No problem!

I used different ones like the Chord Mojo, Audioquest Dragonfly "both" Black & Red and even the Creative X7 for a while.
Had the HD800 in my collection for a while and found them sounding fantastic for a good gaming session which i frequently do.
For longer listening sessions though  "unless when in a very critical listening mood" i didn't find them as relaxed as the Elear's nor as dynamic while keeping the smooth relaxed sound.
Even the comfort wasn't perfect for me as they started to hurt my jaw after some time. At the moment im really enjoying the Elear's but im sure i will grow old of these also after a while

 
That was exactly my impressions regarding those two beasts, I never really enjoyed the soundstage/hi-end feeling of HD800 that many love, a decent stereo setup will be my choice. The Elear is smooth yet still very refined, I think that's how a hi-end loudspeakers makers deal with headphones, and the Utopia was audio nirvana literally.
 
For the dacs, how did you find the combination of DT1990 with the Dragonfly Red compared to the Mojo? I am considering the Red right now, will try them asap.

 

[martijn397]

   
That was exactly my impressions regarding those two beasts, I never really enjoyed the soundstage/hi-end feeling of HD800 that many love, a decent stereo setup will be my choice. The Elear is smooth yet still very refined, I think that's how a hi-end loudspeakers makers deal with headphones, and the Utopia was audio nirvana literally.
 
For the dacs, how did you find the combination of DT1990 with the Dragonfly Red compared to the Mojo? I am considering the Red right now, will try them asap.

I'm really scared to listen to the Utopia's sinds i might have to buy them when i do, and they aren't the cheapest around, "what has been heard cannot be unheard"
To share my thoughts on the Dragonfly's compared to the Mojo i actually liked the Dragonfly Black the most allthough i didn't get the chance to do a side by side with the red's.
Comparing the Mojo to the Dragonfly's from what i recall was that i founded the Mojo to sound a bit muffled or muddy if you will and also give the soundstage less depth.
The Dragonfly black had my personal preference in combo with the DT1990 Pro's, the red's made them sound a bit too bright, maybe even too dry for my taste.
I have just placed an order on both the Black and Red to give them a try with my Elear's on my iphone, allthough think i also need a shorter/lighter cable if i want to walk around with these