Can a computer be a decent audiophile source? - The answer is yes.

[diego]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMHO, if you are using no DSPs, you are using ASIO or KS, and your soundcard is simply serving as a digital transport, the computer configuration, operating system, and hardware have no impact on the audio stream.

There are drivers involved that change from OS to OS and among them. I compared in my system the following configurations:

flac>asio4all>USB>Trends UD10>coax>stello DA100
flac>asio4all>USB>stello DA100
flac(SRC 24/96)>creative asio>audigy2zs>coax>stello DA100

The first 2 sounded exactly the same but the third sounded with a bit of distortion and lack of dinamics and it was fairly easy to notice the difference. Probably, creative asio is not bit perfect. I had to resample because otherwise the audigy would resample it in hardware and i've heard it's very bad. However, I don't think the resampling itself produced the difference because when I resample with the stello it doesn't sound bad.

In addition, when I use linux to hear the same files it sounds a bit different to me (a bit warmer), the difference is small so it could be my imagination but these things have made me think the usb, sound card and asio drivers are important.

Just my 2 cents in case they help someone

.

Diego

 

[Wavelength]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgtlover /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't understand this comment. Can you expand on what you have said and how this might be explained. I woudl have thought - perhaps incorrectly - that a digital data stream would be identical from a Mac & a PC (or any other device for that matter).

Not true, heck not even true for the differences between say two PC front end programs. Many people say they prefer say J River over Foobar because they feel foobar is too bright. I am still not sure why this is but I think part of the problem is there are no standard libraries for encoding and decoding of music. Also between Mac and Pc the sound is different for the same track.

Another problem as I indicated is that depending on software, drivers, hardware etc... a computer can sound different. I have a USB analyzer and you would be surprised at how some ports respond.

Never use a USB port wired to the front of the computer. Many of these use cheap cables to wire from the mother board to the front of the chassis. These are natorious for errors when viewing with the analyzer.

Thanks
Gordon

 

[poo]

Interesting reading Wavelength... does not seem to be alot of credible info around on this subject, but it has me interested.

 

[OverlordXenu]

If you're willing to drop enough money into a computer-as-source setup, I think it can be better than anything else.

 

[fordgtlover]

I notice that there seems to be a very limited number of DAC chips available with USB connections. Is this possibly one of the limiting factors in a computer with offboard DAC competing with a very high end CDP?

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by poo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting reading Wavelength... does not seem to be alot of credible info around on this subject, but it has me interested.

More like incredible info

Kudos on the name BTW, one I think of often but dare not to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgtlover /img/forum/go_quote.gif I notice that there seems to be a very limited number of DAC chips available with USB connections. Is this possibly one of the limiting factors in a computer with offboard DAC competing with a very high end CDP?

I don't think so. I mean it depends on where you're looking but there are plenty of cards (internal and external) which offer DAC-stage performance nominally on a par with a higher end regular CDP.

 

[DrBenway]

Of course it can, if you believe that bits are bits. But you need to have high-quality components -- digital out (either SPDIF, USB, or Firewire), cables, amp, speakers/cans, etc to really get the best results. Your source is just one link in the chain.

The other argument, about vinyl, goes to the old analog vs digital debate. That's an argument that will never be settled; it's really a matter of opinion and personal preference. And, for the record (so to speak

), I've heard people claim flatly that 78s are the highest fidelity source. I don't believe that, but I've heard that point passionately argued. There's really no end to it. How about Edison cylinders?

 

[CDC471]

Why not. depends on which software are installed in the comp.( sandbox will give u impressive).

 

[florinbaiduc]

Hook up a really good "output only" soundcard (in the 100-900EUR range) and it will be very difficult to beat... Or go the external DAC way, where the quality of your amp is what matters...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgtlover /img/forum/go_quote.gif The title pretty much says it all. Can a computer really be a decent audiophile quality source. If not, why not?

 

[Wavelength]

Gang,

A few more thoughts on why PC programs sound different or maybe an example of why different front end programs will sound different.

Let's say you rip via EAC. Well the EAC encoder the part of the program that writes the file type is written by EAC. Then you use say Foobar, JRiver, iTunes, Media Player all of which are using decoders written by their company. Also in the program the company has too use some internal data format that works with all the other features it has such as eq, vol, plug in's etc...

All these things can effect the bit level of any particular sound. The idea of bit perfect seems a little far fetched if you can't even control how the front end treats the data.

In a perfect world every program would rely on the OS for encoding and decoding of file types. This would at least put eveything on a standard foot hold.

As far as differences with hardware well that may take a bit more patients on everyone's part. It's not like this stuff needs allot of horse power but the drivers and memory can always effect things. My wife got a IBM ThinkPad for work it was loaded to the heels with bs and it took 4 minutes to load explorer. I know many of you can't dedicate a computer to the system but you can go through and look for drivers and bs you are not using and unload those.

I use to design pc's for a living. Motherboards, PCI, ISA (dating myself) and such. Internal boards really need a kick in the ass. The power supplies in any PC are really crappy for audio. PCI makes for a great interface but with the power supply problem, ground noise from switching supplies and EMI/RFI radiation it makes for a breading ground of bad sonics. It would be nice to see someone make a PCI board say with rechargable batteries for the analog sections or an external power supply or something. This is one of the reason's I do usb as you can place this external to the computer and have an easy to develop platform.

There are several USB controllers on the market TI has the PCM27xx series which is easy to use rather low quality. Then it has the TAS1020 and TUSB3200 which are more complex and require custom programming. But really you could use tons of chips from companies that offer intelligent USB controllers. Many of the ARM based units from Atmel, Cypress, TI and many other companies would do an excellent job passing data to a fine dac. The development time would me a little high. But you could make one easily that did not require drivers and would do just as good as some of the TI parts.

Well back to work...
Thanks
Gordon

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavelength /img/forum/go_quote.gif I use to design pc's for a living. Motherboards, PCI, ISA (dating myself) and such.

Wow. ISA. Industry Standard Archetecture. What a blast from the past. Just seeing that acronym brought EISA bubbling to the surface of my aged brain. If I remember correctly, EISA (Extended Industry Standard Architecture) sort of played Neanderthal to PCI's Homo Sapiens? I need to go and take my Geritol.

I am sooooo old. How did this happen?

 

[fordgtlover]

It's not that long ago sonce ISA and EISA were used. Is it?

Maybe I'm getting old too.

 

[poo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgtlover /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not that long ago sonce ISA and EISA were used. Is it?

Lets keep this on topic eh guys? This isn't a **** forum!

 

[poo]

What the hell??? the **** is supposed to say p o r n... strange world when that's an offensive word...

 

[zirgated]

Strange world when you associate |)r0|\| with ISA. Now, PCI-E or SCSI...

I think SCSI would make quite a good bus for audio interfaces - can be daisy chained (you'd want an external clock, though), high data rate, reasonably low latency and versatile.