[a-LeXx]

Ara is super easy to drive off the Cayin N6ii. Volume rarely goes past 35 in low gain on E02 and T01. It doesn't need the juice you think.

In this case, 93 dB on the spec sheet is a typo, as I suspected. It‘s a WAY too low for an IEM, and with that sensitivity it would be definitively not easy to drive

 

[Raketen]

Yeah those are some ... intersting... specs. 93 dB/mW and ultra low 8.5 ohm impedance, but will most modern sources really have trouble delivering that much power into such a low impedance? Unless it has some insane swings or maybe some amp sections have trouble doing the ultra low impedance.

Even Sony's sub-phone weak Walkman models like A15 could do something like 15mW into 16 ohms IIRC. I think you could get listenable levels even with that except for maybe more dynamic mixes at loud volumes?

idk that much about this stuff though... and maybe I just listen at much lower volumes relative to others than I thought

or maybe it's a low key move to increase demand for portable Rx amps

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/campfire-audio-ara.929228/post-15633318

 

[a-LeXx]

Yeah those are some ... intersting... specs. 93 dB/mW and ultra low 8.5 ohm impedance, but will most modern sources really have trouble delivering that much power into such a low impedance? Unless it has some insane swings or maybe some amp sections have trouble doing the ultra low impedance.

Even Sony's sub-phone weak Walkman models like A15 could do something like 15mW into 16 ohms IIRC. I think you could get listenable levels even with that except for maybe more dynamic mixes at loud volumes?

idk that much about this stuff though... and maybe I just listen at much lower volumes relative to others than I thought

Well, the issue is usually exactly with low impedance and low sensitivity. Those smaller portable devices usually generate negative voltage for the output with a small charge pump, and when lots of energy is required, e.g. on some big bass, it‘s often not capable of providing enough current, so, often it will start clipping and you‘ll get distorted signal.
But, well, to be honest, I don‘t believe in those 93dB. It‘s a ridiculously low sensitivity for an all-BA-IEM...

 

[glassmonkey]

In this case, 93 dB on the spec sheet is a typo, as I suspected. It‘s a WAY too low for an IEM, and with that sensitivity it would be definitively not easy to drive

I highly doubt it's a typo.

Ara spec:
93 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
8.5 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance.

Impedance is the other factor on ease of driving. 8.5 ohms is incredibly low for nominal impedance. I've got one lower IEM at 3 ohms in the house right now. The AME Custom Gravitas is harder to drive (current requirements).

Here's the Andromeda 2020 specs:
112.8 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
12.8 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

50% more nominal impedance. I'd wager they take similar juice to drive.

Solaris 2020
115 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
15.5 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

Even more nominal impedance. I really doubt these are much different to drive.

@Jackpot77 what volume you using on the Solaris 2020 with the Cayin N6ii A01? I'm doing in the 30s with the Ara for 78.2 dB measured with Ayre IBE white noise on both T01 and E02.

 

[CL14715]

My Empire Ears Valkyrie are 96db at 3ohms lol. They take some serious power to be played at a normal volume.

 

[glassmonkey]

My Empire Ears Valkyrie are 96db at 3ohms lol. They take some serious power to be played at a normal volume.

That's the the estat driver in the Valkyrie doing that. Full BA setups are easier to drive.

 

[Raketen]

My Empire Ears Valkyrie are 96db at 3ohms lol. They take some serious power to be played at a normal volume.

wth... those are probably just straight up incompatable with a lot of sources if minimum impedance specs are to be believed lol

 

[CL14715]

wth... those are probably just straight up incompatable with a lot of sources if minimum impedance specs are to be believed lol

Yea definitely lol. Need a good DAP or Amp otherwise they fall apart sound wise.

 

[CL14715]

That's the the estat driver in the Valkyrie doing that. Full BA setups are easier to drive.

It’s worth it. Such nice treble.

 

[a-LeXx]

I highly doubt it's a typo.

Ara spec:
93 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
8.5 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance.

Impedance is the other factor on ease of driving. 8.5 ohms is incredibly low for nominal impedance. I've got one lower IEM at 3 ohms in the house right now. The AME Custom Gravitas is harder to drive (current requirements).

Here's the Andromeda 2020 specs:
112.8 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
12.8 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

50% more nominal impedance. I'd wager they take similar juice to drive.

Solaris 2020
115 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
15.5 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

Even more nominal impedance. I really doubt these are much different to drive.

@Jackpot77 what volume you using on the Solaris 2020 with the Cayin N6ii A01? I'm doing in the 30s with the Ara for 78.2 dB measured with Ayre IBE white noise on both T01 and E02.

8Ohm vs 12Ohm of impedance is not a big difference. As you said 50%

Let me give an example of what 93dB vs 113dB sensitivity mean.
Assume we want to achieve that SPL of 113dB. This would mean, we would need to supply Andros with 1mW. To get there, at their 12 Ohm impedance, we would need to source around 110mV, and at this voltage, Andros will drain around 8mA. Not much.

Now, let‘s translate it to ARA. To get those 113dB, assuming they are really only 93dB sensitivity, we would need 100mW of power. First thing, not that many portable devices can at all provide that much power into 8 Ohm. This translates to 1.1V, and at this voltage ARA would drain around 140mA of current, which is too much for most devices not equipped with a powerful buffer stage designed to drive full-size power hungry cans.

That‘s why I believe those ARA specs are incorrect...

 

[Lookout57]

Andromeda Gold SE:

Specifications
5Hz–20 kHz Frequency Response

116 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity

7 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

Ara:

Specifications
10Hz–28 kHz Frequency Response

93 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity

8.5 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

Interesting since they are both 7 drivers and crossover less.

 

[a-LeXx]

I highly doubt it's a typo.

Ara spec:
93 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
8.5 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance.

Impedance is the other factor on ease of driving. 8.5 ohms is incredibly low for nominal impedance. I've got one lower IEM at 3 ohms in the house right now. The AME Custom Gravitas is harder to drive (current requirements).

Here's the Andromeda 2020 specs:
112.8 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
12.8 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

50% more nominal impedance. I'd wager they take similar juice to drive.

Solaris 2020
115 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity
15.5 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

Even more nominal impedance. I really doubt these are much different to drive.

@Jackpot77 what volume you using on the Solaris 2020 with the Cayin N6ii A01? I'm doing in the 30s with the Ara for 78.2 dB measured with Ayre IBE white noise on both T01 and E02.

Andromeda Gold SE:

Specifications
5Hz–20 kHz Frequency Response

116 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity

7 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

Ara:

Specifications
10Hz–28 kHz Frequency Response

93 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity

8.5 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance

Interesting since they are both 7 drivers and crossover less.

An only explanation why this could be true, is - if they implemented kind of ifi iematch inside the headphones, in other words a voltage divider that would represent pretty constant mostly resistive load to the source and a very low output impedance to the BAs.

 

[mvvRAZ]

That's the the estat driver in the Valkyrie doing that. Full BA setups are easier to drive.

DDs require more power than BAs as well. It depends on the implementation though - the MMR Thumimm for example requires about as much power as the A18S (one having a DD and 4 estats vs a pure BA composition)

In some cases drivers also have a different current requirement - most notably estats - the EE Wraith pretty much does not perform anything above 8k unless you have is strapped to a high current source regardless of volume level

 

[glassmonkey]

An only explanation why this could be true, is - if they implemented kind of ifi iematch inside the headphones, in other words a voltage divider that would represent pretty constant mostly resistive load to the source and a very low output impedance to the BAs.

I think you missed the part where basically all DAPs over $600 will likely drive the Ara just fine, except Astell & Kern. I will say though, the iEMatch 2.5 works with the N6ii E02 combo. I got a little bit of hiss and it solved it. I still need to check if there is an effect on dynamics from the iEMatch 2.5.

 

[KB]

In this case, 93 dB on the spec sheet is a typo, as I suspected. It‘s a WAY too low for an IEM, and with that sensitivity it would be definitively not easy to drive

Guys,

Thanks for pointing this out, it is a typo, as well as our other sensitivity measurements methods being old. This was something I had been meaning to correct but in the dust up in our launch during the pandemic I missed doing so, apologies.

We measure now and express in volts, the drive needed to reach one pascal @ 1 kHz (94 dBSPL) then state the drive in mVrms needed to achieve 94 dBSPL @ 1 kHz. We feel that this is more meaningful than other ways of expressing sensitivity, and also more meaningful than how we use to show it. We will update the sensitivity in the specifications accordingly. Thanks again, and here are the sensitivity specs for the three new models:

• Ara: 94 dB SPL @ 1kHz: 7.094 mVrms
• Solaris 2020: 94 dB SPL @ 1kHz: 6.54 mVrms
• Andromeda 2020: 94 dB SPL @ 1kHz: 7.01 mVrms

John Siau wrote a great piece on sensitivity measurements over at Benchmark that I think does a good job at explaining this. Here's an excerpt from it:

How can I judge loudness from headphone sensitivity specifications?​

​

Headphone manufacturers have different methods for specifying headphone sensitivity. This makes direct comparisons difficult without doing some math.​

​

Sensitivity is often expressed as dB SPL at 1 mW (acoustic output as a function of input power). This "power sensitivity" specification makes comparisons complicated. This specification tells us nothing about the loudness of the headphones at a given voltage unless we also know the impedance of the headphones.​

​

In contrast, Sennheiser specifies sensitivity in terms of dB SPL at 1 Vrms (acoustic output as a function of input voltage). Sennheiser's "voltage sensitivity" method takes impedance out of the equation and allows direct comparisons without making calculations.​

​

"Power sensitivity" must be converted to "voltage sensitivity" before we can directly compare the loudness of our headphones.​

Here's a link to John Siau's entire article: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/14017381-headphone-impedance-and-sensitivity

Jude also wrote some more great information about measuring headphone sensitivity, as this topic can be confusing. Here's a link to that: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...essions-thread.197776/page-2669#post-13803816

Sorry for any errors and for any confusion. Again, we'll be updating the sensitivity specs on our website accordingly.

Hope this helps.

Ken