[eric343]

I've noticed that a pair of cables I have seriously reduce the level of noise in my system - before I rewired my KGSS to eliminate a ground loop, they reduced the volume of the buzz by about 10dB, and now they completely remove the subtle hum in one channel caused by the fact that the transformer wiring goes right by the input stage of that channel. I'm wondering whether anyone else has had this experience - perhaps the Cardas SLVR connectors mate particularly well with the WBT RCA jacks? Maybe the shield design conducts/sinks noise to the source better?

 

[Magic77]

I did experience a Hum/Buzz with my Creek OBH-11SE when I was trying different interconnects once. The better quality shielded cables either reduced the noise significantly or completely.

So; I'm assuming that the sheilding and/or RCA jacks DO make a difference.

 

[john_jcb]

Makes me wonder though if your source or amp is noisy to some extent and the cable is acting essentially as a filter, what else is being filtered out? I have always thought that the goal when connecting equipment was to use the shortest interconnect and minimize all losses.

 

[dd3mon]

I've noticied quite dramatic noise level differences with different cables and my MG Head. Don't know why. BTW - if cables are reducing your hum/noise, try a Virtual Dynamics cable. My VD reference is shockingly silent.

-dd3mon

 

[Howie]

Also try to "suspend" the cables. Try having your cables touch nothing but air and see if it improves things even further.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by dd3mon I've noticied quite dramatic noise level differences with different cables and my MG Head. Don't know why. BTW - if cables are reducing your hum/noise, try a Virtual Dynamics cable. My VD reference is shockingly silent. -dd3mon

Agreed there dd3mon. While most don't understand why the VD stuff is so expensive, they have often never tried them for themselves and heard just how much of an impact they have on things like background noise and such. I mean come on, how can a stupid IC, just a piece of wire, reduce the noise of a system? I guess now many more people are starting to see that Rick's web site claims are, in fact, true. It is weird, but these things really work. I don't know how, but there has to be something with the reduction of inductance, capacatance, RFI, or some other thing we haven't discovered yet that allows a good cable, any good cable that is, to reduce something like noise in our system.

 

[john_jcb]

At the risk of being redundant I will try asking the question a different way.

Shouldn't the source and amp have background noise that is below what you can hear? If you are using cables to filter audible system noise are you not also filtering the music?

If the discussion is really "what cables mask noisy equipment the best" then I understand what you are talking about.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

John,

There are many other factors to consider other than the fact that a good cable might rid you of some noise. First off, if the shileding is better, you might get rid of a lot of noise that is induced from RFI and EMI. Second off, the better cables may use a purer metal that reduces inductance or capacatance issues that cheaper cables induce. When you have resistance and capacitance or inductance in a circuit you what is known as a tuned tank circuit that will resonate and cause other weird problems with the music trying to pass thru it. Thirdly, better cables trick you into thinking they are better, so you sleep well at night.

Lastly, you can avoid some of the other nasties like skin effect, reflections due to impedance issues, etc. by using higher quality cables.


Having said that, I don't mean to say that ANY expensive cable is a high quality cable. Liek almost nowhere else in audiodom do we find more shams and lies than the cable industry. A good cable brings a lot more to the table than just passing music.

 

[john_jcb]

Doug,

Yes I realize the benifits of good cabling that you mention. What I was questioning was actually based off of Eric's original post. If I read what he says correctly he has noise and the source(s) is believed to be the amp. If certain cables clean up this audible noise I was wondering what impact they have on the music. It would seem to me that you would want to correct the problem rather tnan spending money on cables that act as a filter.

 

[fewtch]

Edit -- n/m

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador I guess now many more people are starting to see that Rick's web site claims are, in fact, true.

Methinks we are thinking of different Ricks, or seeing different websites... as someone who's actually done a bit of looking into the whole cable-design thing, and who knows a few tidbits of information on the topic of audio, it looks to me like the VirtualDynamics website was written by someone who not only does not know anything at all about audio engineering but who also realizes this and is deliberately trying to conceal the fact from the reader by cloaking it in technical-sounding gibberish. Do the cables work? Use your ears and decide for yourself. Does the website contain an explanation for why they work (or don't)? Well, perhaps in a parallel universe... in the universe in which I reside, it's a load of dingo's kidneys. Quote:

It is weird, but these things really work. I don't know how, but there has to be something with the reduction of inductance, capacatance, RFI, or some other thing we haven't discovered yet that allows a good cable, any good cable that is, to reduce something like noise in our system.

Personally, I think it's a combination of a very low-resistance, high-coverage ground conductor (according to my DMM, these cables have an end-to-end shield resistance of <0.01 ohm) and quality connectors... Just my two cents, though.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador There are many other factors to consider other than the fact that a good cable might rid you of some noise. First off, if the shileding is better, you might get rid of a lot of noise that is induced from RFI and EMI.

Yes, definitely. A good shield is a good idea... Quote:

Second off, the better cables may use a purer metal that reduces inductance or capacatance issues that cheaper cables induce.

Metal purity has nothing to do with inductance or capacitance. Both are caused by cable construction and conductor geometry (but mostly construction of cable)... Quote:

When you have resistance and capacitance or inductance in a circuit you what is known as a tuned tank circuit that will resonate and cause other weird problems with the music trying to pass thru it.

Fortunately, with the capacitances/inductances found in typical cables, combined with the voltage and current levels found in the average interconnects, a "tuned tank circuit" should affect only signals well into the high megahertz or gigahertz range - between 100,000 and 1 million times higher than the highest audio frequency. As is, there is no "circuit" in a cable (unless it has a network box), so as far as I know it's literally impossible for a "tuned tank circuit" to occur in the traditional sense - what you're talking about is a simple R-C filter caused by the interaction of the conductor resistance and capacitance to ground/shield... Quote:

Thirdly, better cables trick you into thinking they are better, so you sleep well at night.

Arguably the most important feature of a cable...

Quote:

Lastly, you can avoid some of the other nasties like skin effect, reflections due to impedance issues, etc. by using higher quality cables.

Yes... all well known effects...

...above 100MHz.
(though I'm not discounting their effects in the audio band - the cable my parent post referenced was designed with those things in mind)
Quote:

Having said that, I don't mean to say that ANY expensive cable is a high quality cable. Liek almost nowhere else in audiodom do we find more shams and lies than the cable industry. A good cable brings a lot more to the table than just passing music.

Very true.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by john_jcb Yes I realize the benifits of good cabling that you mention. What I was questioning was actually based off of Eric's original post. If I read what he says correctly he has noise and the source(s) is believed to be the amp. If certain cables clean up this audible noise I was wondering what impact they have on the music. It would seem to me that you would want to correct the problem rather tnan spending money on cables that act as a filter.

The source of the noise was the proximity of the power transformer's input and output wires to the input stage of the right channel in the KGSS, which picked up the hum said wires induced due to its very high gain (about 1000). Fortunately, as the cables are between the amp and the source, they have no opportunity to filter out the noise (since the noise isn't injected until the signal is inside the amp), and any filter-effect can be safely ruled-out as the cause of the noise elimination.

Of course, it's possible that they *conduct* the noise back to the source better and thereby allow the source's output stage to eliminate it, however I question whether that's possible...

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Eric,

I good test is use your uber sensitive cans to check out certain companies' claims about cabling. Next September I will be returning to the states with all my Nite cabling. At that time I will be happy to loan them to you for an audition after that. That way you can compare them to other cables and see for yourself whether or not a few claims on a web site make any difference. I for one am really tired of hearing people who read a few claims on a web site and then write-off the products since they "know a few things." It's almost as inane as someone reading an amp's frequency responce curve or it's frequency responce curve and saying it will suck merely from that. Until the item is actually heard by you it is all a mental game and rather silly to discuss until that point.

If you want a week or two with the cables before I sell them, I would be more than happy to oblige. If you don't that is fine also. I already have at least one other person who wants to hear them, so maybe this will be like the tuberolling kit, but way more expensive.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador It's almost as inane as someone reading an amp's frequency responce curve or it's frequency responce curve and saying it will suck merely from that. Until the item is actually heard by you it is all a mental game and rather silly to discuss until that point.

Dunno... I feel that measurements definitely have their place, and ears + measurements are generally much better than either ears or measurements alone (just my opinion).

In your example above, if the frequency response curve of an amp showed that it rolls off above 14 or 15 KHz, it's guaranteed that the amp sucks and will sound muffled (unless you suffer hearing loss). Likewise, if it rolls off in the low bass frequencies. But on the other hand, a perfectly flat curve won't show whether the amp necessarily sounds good or not.