As Steve indirectly points out, resistance, inductance and capacitance are what matters in a cable.
I make a lot of cables, microphone cables in particular. Once the basic parameters are met, and good connectors employed, they all sound great. I have however heard some bad cables that do damage.
I really like that the OP is experimenting. He did a great job showing what he did and the materials used in his cable in another thread. He is doing as good a job here discussing what he has done to test them.
The lines look like they are near on top of each other until the highs where they are a little separated. I am not good with reading this, so isn't 3db increase like double the volume? It looks like there is a 1-2db difference between the two cables in the highs and that's about it.
not sure if those small differences in FR can be noticeable by ear. I'd have to try it, but maybe a moth can.
given the benefit of doubt, I find hard to believe that silver cables ALWAYS changes the sound for good.
Regardless of truth to the op's post, in bulk, these differences are quite large and could refine the headphone. Yes 3db is roughly 80%-double the SPL. But it's not only different throughout the spectrum. It's also tighter.. Which to me instigates that the driver is receiving more data. (i.e cleaner electrical current.
The fr also looks to be just a hair louder with the silver than it is with the stock cabled copper, which also appears to be silvers roughly 7% improved conductance. This could be proof that we do see difference in headphone cables.
subscribed! any chance you could elaborate on how you were able to ensure that the positioning of the mic and the headphones was identical before/after you switched cables? I would also love to see the graphs of the second set of samples you took if/when you have an opportunity to post them. thanks!
I did more tests today and differences continue to show across the frequency range. Surprisingly, I have not been able to duplicate the *exact* differences after moving the mic. The only thing that is predictable is that the cables *are* different, tend to be more different in certain frequency ranges, and that through multiple rounds of a single test one cable will have a very consistent curve and the other cable will have another consistent curve.
So, obviously moving the mic modifies the measured response of the headphones. The thing to note is that moving the mic also modifies the measured differences. This would indicate that the cables change the dispersal pattern of the driver. If the cables do change the dispersal pattern, the only truly accurate way to measure the sound differences would be in some kind of echo chamber resembling the human ear canal.
In lieu of an echo chamber, the next step is to measure the dispersal pattern of the driver by positioning the mic in different areas and running the above series of tests for each position. Then, maybe it would pertinent to average the curves for each cable and compare the average?
Anyone know how frequencies tend to disperse on the face of a driver? Do lows come off the edges more and highs from the center?
I briefly explored the recording for about -32 hours in the pass, and came across a recording technique - They make a human skull, and drill holes on human ears postion. They then put the mic in the skull.
When they start recording, they just put the mic along with the skull on the designated location, and start recording. This is one of the technique used for live recording I believe.
However in your scenario, this will provide a consistent environment for recording, and eliminate some of the variables. Plus it will give the best simulation to your mic, closest to the headphone experience, by putting the headphone on the skull like human head. You can also test diferent headphones with same parameter.
I would put some cloth around the mic probably a meter or 2 away, to provide a complete seal and some sound absorption.
I'm full of ideals but never do any **** myself - always get scolded for this HAHAHA. I hope this bring you ideas.
The lines look like they are near on top of each other until the highs where they are a little separated. I am not good with reading this, so isn't 3db increase like double the volume? It looks like there is a 1-2db difference between the two cables in the highs and that's about it.
3 dB is 23% louder. It's twice as much power. Enough to assume that it's not background noise, which would have to match the volume of the drivers at that frequency, but there could still be something beyond the cables causing it. That's why I'd like to see repeated measurements of the same cable. He said he made sure it was repeatable, which is good, but I'd like to see it.
Everything but that 3 dB difference at 2 kHz is probably inaudible, maybe not the 1 dB difference at 3.5 kHz. I find it strange that there's so little difference elsewhere, especially in the high treble where you would expect to see the first effects of the silver's electrical properties, if you see them at all.
Recording in a human skull? What? Wouldn't that add resonance?
The big joke here is we have a member that has taken the time and energy to test his driver output information and has begun a series tests which seem to prove the cables made a difference in sound. Then we have the non cable believers coming back and asking him to go down the same tried and tired route of testing the pure electrical potential of the cables.
When the k-701s were tested this year and we had proof of break-in, as I understand it was also with a driver to mic test. I also believe that this type of test is really closer to a real life hearing test as we are recording the sound coming from the driver only. The electric signal test has always ( as I read ) been not revealing when testing just the cable electric impulse alone. So why is someone asking him to go down that road again?
Would not the standardization of this test be placing the driver in a soundproof box with the mic at the other end. Screwing the whole thing down so no movements take place, deadening the @#$%^ out of it to reduce vibrations, and running 100s of tests looking for a graphic proof of the driver having a different reaction to silver cable?
I'm I missing something here? Or are we to test the electric signal again in just the cable and try to disprove and debunk the OP's finding? lol
The big joke here is we have a member that has taken the time and energy to test his driver output information and has begun a series tests which seem to prove the cables made a difference in sound. Then we have the non cable believers coming back and asking him to go down the same tried and tired route of testing the pure electrical potential of the cables.
When the k-701s were tested this year and we had proof of break-in, as I understand it was also with a driver to mic test. I also believe that this type of test is really closer to a real life hearing test as we are recording the sound coming from the driver only. The electric signal test has always ( as I read ) been not revealing when testing just the cable electric impulse alone. So why is someone asking him to go down that road again.
Would not the standardization of this test be placing the driver in a soundproof box with the mic at the other end. Screwing the whole thing down so no movements take place, deadening the @#$%^ out of it to reduce vibrations, and running 100s of tests looking for a graphic proof of the driver having a different reaction to silver cable?
I'm I missing something here? Or are we to test the electric signal again in just the cable and try to disprove and debunk the OP's finding? lol
Redcarmoose, we're all grateful for his efforts so far. It's a great start. But one test does not a theory make, and since cheapskate here seems to be the only believer willing to test his cables, we have to make demands of him. No one else will listen.
The electrical properties of the cables is a very important piece of information. Cables transfer electricity. That's their job. Surely you understand that? If one cable isn't up to the task, then it becomes obvious there could be differences. It would have been best if the electrical properties were tested first, and then mic tests used if nothing objectionable showed up (or used regardless to see what the electrical properties do, which is useful information too!)
Inconveniently, it does take 100s of tests as well as repeatability by others.
I love that he is taking a shot, but if the results of a wiring change were this easy to demonstrate the cable manufacturers would have done so 30+ years ago. Ray Kimber, e.g., is a sophisticated, experienced engineer (and makes some nice recording equipment and recordings). If anyone could demonstrate differences in properly specc'd cables he could.
Quote:
I'm I missing something here? Or are we to test the electric signal again in just the cable and try to disprove and debunk the OP's finding?
Not to debunk, but to understand. If there are meaningful differences in the wire itself (resistance, inductance and capacitance) it could sound different and would be readily explainable. Unfortunately, this would mean one of the wires is sorely underspecified for the role of driving headphones.
The big joke here is we have a member that has taken the time and energy to test his driver output information and has begun a series tests which seem to prove the cables made a difference in sound. Then we have the non cable believers coming back and asking him to go down the same tried and tired route of testing the pure electrical potential of the cables.
When the k-701s were tested this year and we had proof of break-in, as I understand it was also with a driver to mic test. I also believe that this type of test is really closer to a real life hearing test as we are recording the sound coming from the driver only. The electric signal test has always ( as I read ) been not revealing when testing just the cable electric impulse alone. So why is someone asking him to go down that road again?
Would not the standardization of this test be placing the driver in a soundproof box with the mic at the other end. Screwing the whole thing down so no movements take place, deadening the @#$%^ out of it to reduce vibrations, and running 100s of tests looking for a graphic proof of the driver having a different reaction to silver cable?
I'm I missing something here? Or are we to test the electric signal again in just the cable and try to disprove and debunk the OP's finding? lol
You don't seem to understand the difference between proof and evidence. What we have here is very strong evidence, but in no way is it proof. I'm not saying he has, and I honestly doubt it, but for all we know he fudged the results himself in order to make it seem more convincing than it is, or maybe the testing method was fundamentally flawed.
Now, I in no way mean to insult the OP, as it appears he has taken time and energy into making this happen, but it's simply the way science works - things need to be easily repeatable and have similar results in subsequent tests by different people. Once we have a big enough pool of evidence it can start to make its way towards being a so-called "fact." But a single test by a single person quite honestly is not enough to "prove" anything.
I would however be quite willing to accept the results no matter what they are. I'm simply being a skeptic, not a denier, so please don't misunderstand.
Yes, I do see your point. Looking to see if the original cords had a less then normal spec signal role in the final outcome. We could all use a damaged cable to get strange graph results. I am very much with you that the big cable guys have spent $1000s on this in labs and how could this be now? Forgive me as the optimist I am.
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