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They offer both interconnects and digital transmission cables. If bullcrap works for one type of product, why not try it out on the others?
Originally Posted by anetode /img/forum/go_quote.gif They offer both interconnects and digital transmission cables. If bullcrap works for one type of product, why not try it out on the others? |
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I saw that as well. I did not object to that, because it is not claiming to be an analog cable for digital connections. |
It still has many of the same contradictions though. |
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, I understand that. Perhaps you can relax and look at what I am saying? My first post regarding this links to the different (digital) cable. I can understand your point and make my own, no? |
Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif The earth will be a better place to live, when we can actually have a thread about cables, without it getting mean-spirited or aggressive. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif What contradictions? |
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Harmonic Technology | Products | Photon Cables | Photon Digital Wow, over $3,000 to be lied to. How can the music "never be digitized" on a digital cable? It enters the cable as binary data, so right there, they are lying. In addition, they say that there is "absolutely no analog-to-digital conversion". So how does the S/PDIF receiving RCA jack read the data? It can only accept digital data as sent by the source RCA jack. It makes no sense. I like this sentence: "Musical information is preserved to a greater degree due to complete lack of digitization". The product is called "Harmonic Technology Photon Digital Data Link". |
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif In addition, they contradict themselves with two consecutive bullets: - Light transmission through the fiber is uni-directional - Since back reflection is extremely low (< -55dB), optical isolators are unnecessary More contradictions: With the signal (pulse) path completely isolated from the ground, the Photon Digital ensures that there is no possibility of the cables passing noise between components, nor acting as an antenna for RFI or EMI induced distortions—keeping the noise floor extremely low and reducing smearing. Please note: Because there are no physical wires built within the Photon Digital, an extra ground wire may be needed in order to ensure components are on the same ground level. Finally: True component impedance match for either 75 OHM "RCA"... No such thing as a true 75 OHM RCA. They would have to use BNC for that... oh wait, they do not offer that |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif But THOSE are the cables I was talking about when you replied to me saying that the cable WASN'T analogue. |
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The cable may be, but the signal entering it is not analog. It is coming from a digital RCA from the source. It will then be converted back to digital before entering the DAC. Why would anyone want to go D-A-D when you can leave it as digital right until the DAC? I agree with you about the distortion (the extra conversion surely adds to it), but they are still contradicting their own claims at every turn. That, to me, is lying. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif When you respond to my referring to a particular cable, saying it's entirely analogue, by telling me that it's not analogue, you're not making your own point. You're telling me that what I said was incorrect. |
Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif The earth will be a better place to live, when we can actually have a thread about cables, without it getting mean-spirited or aggressive. |
Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The world would be a better place to live if pseudo-science cable peddlers didn't exist. |
Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The world would be a better place to live if pseudo-science cable peddlers didn't exist. |
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif (sigh) These (DIGITAL): |
How can the music "never be digitized" on a digital cable? It enters the cable as binary data, so right there, they are lying. |
In addition, they say that there is "absolutely no analog-to-digital conversion". |
I like this sentence: "Musical information is preserved to a greater degree due to complete lack of digitization". The product is called "Harmonic Technology Photon Digital Data Link". |
In addition, they contradict themselves with two consecutive bullets: - Light transmission through the fiber is uni-directional - Since back reflection is extremely low (< -55dB), optical isolators are unnecessary |
With the signal (pulse) path completely isolated from the ground, the Photon Digital ensures that there is no possibility of the cables passing noise between components, nor acting as an antenna for RFI or EMI induced distortions—keeping the noise floor extremely low and reducing smearing. Please note: Because there are no physical wires built within the Photon Digital, an extra ground wire may be needed in order to ensure components are on the same ground level. |
Finally: True component impedance match for either 75 OHM "RCA"... No such thing as a true 75 OHM RCA. They would have to use BNC for that... oh wait, they do not offer that |
I ceded that point. |
The cable itself might be analog, but it HAS to convert the signal back to a format that the DAC can read. |
Proof of my ceding your point: The cable may be, but the signal entering it is not analog. |
It is coming from a digital RCA from the source. |
Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The world would be a better place to live if pseudo-science cable peddlers didn't exist. |
Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif I personally feel there are much better ways for the same out-of-pocket money to improve one's hi-fi than with cables. However I do know some instances where specific cables will provide measurable differences and benefits. |
Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif Example: Tube preamp with high output impedance driving long interconnect cables to monoblock amplifiers. Let's say the preamp's output impedance is 7Kohm - it doesn't have a low impedance output buffer or follower. Interconnect cables are 20 feet long with 100pF/foot capacitance (common for generic low cost interconnect cables). This combination forms a low pass filter at -3dB at 11,370Hz! This WILL be audible. To improve, change to lower capacitance cables or different preamp with lower output impedance. |
Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's another example: You don't use an active preamp and instead use a passive preamp like a potentiometer in a box. The pot's impedance is 50K - common amplifier input impedance. The output impedance of the pot will vary from near 0 to 12.5Kohm, depending on setting (worst case is -6dB from max). This pot feeds the same long 20 feet, 100pF/ft cables. Depending on volume setting, the high frequency low pass filter will vary in corner frequency from infinity (theoretically) to 6366Hz! To improve, use a lower capacitance cable or passive preamp with lower input impedance. If the latter, then this can start challenging the drive capability of the source components' analog outputs. |
Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's a little tricky searching for posts on Zu cables, because the Head-Fi search function will not let you search for a term with only two letters, like "Zu." |
Originally Posted by oatmeal769 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Au contraire mon frere! here's a nifty trick I learned a while back - put a '*' (wildcard) after 'Zu' and you're golden. Example: Zu* |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just so you know, HeadFi doesn't allow the nesting of quotes when quoting a reply so all the stuff you quoted is removed. It's better to put it in italics or something other than the quote tags. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif The cables contain active electronics. Therefore it would be possible to re-sample the digital data if that were something they chose to do. What they're saying is that they don't. That's not a contradiction. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif They say that for all the Photon cables. And what they're saying is that there's no analog-to-digital conversion taking place in the cables. And there's not. So I don't see that it's a contradiction. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is a complete lack of digitization in the cables. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif The key word here being "transmission." And from a transmission point of view, they are uni-directional. There's only a laser transmitter at one end of the cable. Again, I see no contradiction. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, they do say "may," and I'm not sure what sort of scenario they are referring to here so I'll reserve judgment on calling it a contradiction. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, there isn't a true 75 ohm RCA, but it's RCA's that are commonly used for S/PDIF inputs and outputs, and S/PDIF is a 75 ohm standard. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif No you didn't. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, the cables I was referring to were NOT INTENDED to be used on a DAC. They receive an ANALOGUE input and have an ANALOGUE output and everything in between is ANALOGUE. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif You weren't conceding my point. You were telling me I was incorrect, when I was not. |
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif The cables I was referring to DO have an ANALOGUE signal ENTERING them. NOT IN THE CABLES I WAS REFERRING TO! THE CABLES I WAS REFERRING TO WAS THE PHOTON AMP AND THE PHOTON LINK CABLES! NOT THE PHOTON DIGITAL DATA LINK! *sigh* |