[alexs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn What type of evidence do you need? Because the search engine will reveal all types - and all types will have explanations to debunk them - and all explanations will have more evidence to debunk the debunking... Trust me, we've had enough debunking for a lifetime on this subject. Best to just dive into the search links provided above and settle into a camp

Some people say that there is evidence that proves it while others say that there is evidence to disprove it

this type of evidence.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexs Some people say that there is evidence that proves it while others say that there is evidence to disprove it this type of evidence.

Yes, and you'll have to use the search engine to find it (except for Jazz's nice post above, good read Jazz!). Sorry to come off mean, but all such evidence has been discussed at length before and is recent enough in vintage where most folks aren't willing to rehash again so soon in a new thread.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexs Some people say that there is evidence that proves it while others say that there is evidence to disprove it this type of evidence.

You're not listening.

See what Jahn said above. All evidence pro and con has been discussed ad nauseum in many previous threads. We don't want to go there again . . . at least not so soon after the last thread.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Solude]

Burn in is very real. Its been explained over and over but its wasted time to explain it since those who know there is mechanical and electrical change over the first 200+ hours don't care to be told what they already know and those who don't believe in burn in will never believe in it.

For kicks here's a real easy one for the non believers who own Senns... that ear pad foam isn't hard any more is it? Sits closer to your ear now, doesn't it? Think that might effect sound just a little? Similar to the way bowls vs flats does on Grados? Think pads softening up only happens on Senns? Mull it over.

 

[alexs]

hm, strange that all this evidence is not presented in the sticky. i think technical proof would be more interesting to most.

i would rather read an engineer's perspective on the issue rather than an opinion of an audio enthusiast.

just don't like the sticky because of that...dont flame

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexs hm, strange that all this evidence is not presented in the sticky. i think technical proof would be more interesting to most. i would rather read an engineer's perspective on the issue rather than an opinion of an audio enthusiast. just don't like the sticky because of that...dont flame

The reason why it's not in the sticky is because such an addition would invite counterclaims to the contrary, and the back and forth would become huge - and that sort of thing is better off discussed in the forums, not in a sticky. In fact, read the last bit of writing in the sticky (written in red no less) as to why it wouldn't be a good idea (and wasn't, which is why all such talk was edited out of the sticky).

 

[halcyon]

New members, can you PLEASE use the search, or at least browse through the first two pages, before you post.

Please, pretty please.

These same questions get asked every week, several times usually.

The answers don't change.

But all the new, relevant and interesting threads get pushed down, because the frequently asked questions are taking most of the space.

And now I've contributed to this, by posting to the same FAQ thread.

<sigh>

Can't win

PS I really wish vBulletin would implement the following feature:

- Reply with *bump* (thread gets pushed up in the stack)
- Reply with *PLONK* (thread gets pushed down in the stack)

Then stuff is displayed from the stack.

The FAQs, wrong forum posts and other stuff would not get only positive bumps this way.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ This is my experience with breaking in a quartet of Monacor/Number One SPH-250KE 10" speakers (partially copy-pasted from an earlier post): [/COLOR]

But, Jazz, you yourself recently said that headphone drivers are very different from speaker drivers in that they're made for flexibility, not stiffness. That particular mechanical difference would imply that changes would be much, much less present, since they're designed to be looser from the factory. Do you disagree with the engineers and designers at Sennheiser and AKG that their headphones don't require burn-in, and if so, on what basis? Ever do any of those measurements with an actual headphone instead of a speaker, which (as we've discussed before in another thread of this nature) doesn't really translate well at all?

 

[Sonoman]

Oh boy, did I open Pandora's box?

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonoman Hello All: So I hear that headphones need some burn in time, and after this period the sound will settle/improve. Many people claim their headphones improve in quality after burning them in and they DO believe in it. I asked someone at Sennheiser about burn in time and this is what I got: Hello, We do not have any specs on a "burn in" time. These sets do not require one, and will be fine to play at any volume out of the box. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks. Regards, Scott Houston Technical Applications 860-434-9190 EXT. 182 shouston@sennheiserusa.com Sennheiser~ Neumann~ Turbosound~HHB~K+H Anyone care to sort this out for me please?

What more do you need than the manufacturer's statement....

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley But, Jazz, you yourself recently said that headphone drivers are very different from speaker drivers in that they're made for flexibility, not stiffness.

Yes; and increase as well as possible equalizing of flexibility is what makes most of the change -- be it in the suspension or the flexible membrane. (We haven't discussed changes with stiffness so far.)


Quote:

That particular mechanical difference would imply that changes would be much, much less present, since they're designed to be looser from the factory.

I can't see the difference. Both systems are designed for a specific default compliance/resonance frequency, which will be reached after break-in.


Quote:

Do you disagree with the engineers and designers at Sennheiser and AKG that their headphones don't require burn-in, and if so, on what basis?

Depends on whom you ask. I agree with the Sennheiser representant who wrote this:

Quote:

Headphones, like loudspeakers, normally benefit from a burn-in period. We would normally run a pair of headphones in for 24 hours before sending them for review, for example. Does this answer you? Best Regards, John Willett Technical Applications Manager - Sennheiser UK jwillett@sennheiser.co.uk (Direct line:- +44 (0) 1494 551 540) (Mobile:- +44 (0) 7973 633 634)

Quote:

Simply, it just loosens up the surround so the diaphragm moves more easily. Straight off the production line it is a little stiff. Best Regards, John Willett Technical Applications Manager - Sennheiser UK jwillett@sennheiser.co.uk (Direct line:- +44 (0) 1494 551 540) (Mobile:- +44 (0) 7973 633 634)

...as well as the Stax representant quoted in the same thread.


Quote:

Ever do any of those measurements with an actual headphone instead of a speaker, which (as we've discussed before in another thread of this nature) doesn't really translate well at all?

You know, I dispute the bad translation. However, all I could do is measure the resonance frequency. I hope I will remember it when the HD 700 arrives... Frequency-response measurements on headphones are senseless if you want to follow subtle changes, the more so with the K 701, as positioning is hypercritical -- you can create your own sonic signature by adjusting the earpieces. Moreover I don't have the equipment for measuring harmonic distortion and transient response (nor frequency response, BTW). Sorry!
.

 

[Jahn]

BTW, the examples above are examples of "Evidence as proven by official emails from the folk that make the stuff we 'burn-in.'"

And as you saw, there's a counter example for it. As I said before, there are tons of different types of evidence, as there are evidence to the contrary.

Therefore I stick to my original post - it's best to just look at the search engine, this is all rehash at this point!

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ However, all I could do is measure the resonance frequency. I hope I will remember it when the HD 700 arrives... Frequency-response measurements on headphones are senseless if you want to follow subtle changes, the more so with the K 701, as positioning is hypercritical -- you can create your own sonic signature by adjusting the earpieces. Moreover I don't have the equipment for measuring harmonic distortion and transient response (nor frequency response, BTW). Sorry! .

To the first, thanks, I would appreciate it; I'd do that myself to every new headphone I got if I had the equipment, but unfortunately I don't. I'll remind you if I haven't gotten myself banned by then

Agreed on positioning and sonic signature differences between listen, and agreed on the surround loosening up (though I postulate that -especially at the headphone level- the surround's loosening up occurs at most within the first 24 hours, and likely within the first hour of listening), and d'oh to the lack of certain equipments.

 

[max-9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonoman Hello, We do not have any specs on a "burn in" time. These sets do not require one, and will be fine to play at any volume out of the box. Anyone care to sort this out for me please?

Easy
The dudes that made your headphones said "they dont require burn in".......I guess they would know.

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by max9 Easy The dudes that made your headphones said "they dont require burn in".......I guess they would know.

Let me quote Sennheiser directly for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennheiser Hello, We do not have any specs on a "burn in" time. These sets do not require one, and will be fine to play at any volume out of the box. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks.

Specifically they say "do not require one", that doesn't mean that the sonic characteristics of the headphones wouldn't benefit from it.