[HamilcarBarca]

Originally Posted by tdockweiler /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[...]
I always found the ODAC non-fatiguing, but it does seem a little more forward in the mids compared to the Modi. Yeah and still measuring flat.
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The ODAC is neutral, so it sounds like the Modi fails to produce a flat response.
 
 

Originally Posted by tdockweiler /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[...]
Lately i've been thinking I might like some slight coloration (still flat).
[...]

 

I think the proper thing is to choose the device whose sound you find most pleasing. However, if the response is flat, by definition it can't be colored. Those two phrases are contradictory.

 

[LoveKnight]

Okey, sound like I need a USB power hub with power supply. However, that is not in my upgrade path now. I am going to consider it after purchase MoonAudio Black Dragon and a portable hard drive.
 
I hope I am going to find out more of my music taste and pairing with Sennheiser headphones on this Sunday morning after the meeting. Will have a chance to listen to more higher headphones and higher dacs,amps.

 

[adani]

Can I connect 50 Ohm headphones directly to ODAC, without an amplifier. I know about possible distortions and that this is not the way it is meant to be, but the question is - is it safe for the DAC and headphones in the long run?

 

[hamburgerladdy]

Quote:

Can I connect 50 Ohm headphones directly to ODAC, without an amplifier. I know about possible distortions and that this is not the way it is meant to be, but the question is - is it safe for the DAC and headphones in the long run?

I've done it and it sounds very clear, but it is lacking the weight even a small amp brings.
 
I dunno, got fatiguing really quick.
 
*Just used the Shure SHR440s with the ODAC only now and the above is confirmed, could not listen for more than two minutes.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
The ODAC is neutral, so it sounds like the Modi fails to produce a flat response.
 
 
 

I think the proper thing is to choose the device whose sound you find most pleasing. However, if the response is flat, by definition it can't be colored. Those two phrases are contradictory.

 
The ODAC and Modi are both flat, but the mids on the ODAC often sound more forward due to worse soundstage depth and height. You can often notice this on the ODAC when listening to vocals that should be in front of you but spaced further away. It's like on the ODAC it's harder to judge the distance. The ODAC seems to shove the sound closer to me. Also, the Modi measures flat and is very transparent too.
 
When I mean slight coloration, I meant that I MIGHT prefer something with a touch of warmth. If that's not your definition of slight coloration then OK. For example, the Clip+ measures ruler flat but yet doesn't sound cold and analytical, but quite warm.
 
The amount of warmth I get on the Ipod 3G Classic and the Creative X-Fi Go Pro DAC is about perfect.
 
Also, the E17 supposedly measures flat, but in comparison might make the ODAC and Modi seem cold. So maybe that's not quite a coloration.

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

 

The ODAC and Modi are both flat, but the mids on the ODAC often sound more forward due to worse soundstage depth and height.

 
No, that can't be right either.
 
The ODAC is transparent (neutral) and doesn't create a good or bad 'soundstage depth and height." It simply reproduces the 'soundstage depth and height' of the source with no audible difference.
 
Does the Modi really create a different 'soundstage depth and height'. If so, it's due to audible distortion.
 
Do you like the Modi better? If so, it's the right choice for you. However, you're still misidentifying the cause.

 

[LoveKnight]

Quote:

 
The ODAC and Modi are both flat, but the mids on the ODAC often sound more forward due to worse soundstage depth and height. You can often notice this on the ODAC when listening to vocals that should be in front of you but spaced further away. It's like on the ODAC it's harder to judge the distance. The ODAC seems to shove the sound closer to me. Also, the Modi measures flat and is very transparent too.
 
When I mean slight coloration, I meant that I MIGHT prefer something with a touch of warmth. If that's not your definition of slight coloration then OK. For example, the Clip+ measures ruler flat but yet doesn't sound cold and analytical, but quite warm.
 
The amount of warmth I get on the Ipod 3G Classic and the Creative X-Fi Go Pro DAC is about perfect.
 
Also, the E17 supposedly measures flat, but in comparison might make the ODAC and Modi seem cold. So maybe that's not quite a coloration.

That could explain a lot of things to me . Thanks. Now I know what causes my problem. 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
No, that can't be right either.
 
The ODAC is transparent (neutral) and doesn't create a good or bad 'soundstage depth and height." It simply reproduces the 'soundstage depth and height' of the source with no audible difference.
 
Does the Modi really create a different 'soundstage depth and height'. If so, it's due to audible distortion.
 
Do you like the Modi better? If so, it's the right choice for you. However, you're still misidentifying the cause.

 
All I know is this is what it sounds like to my ears. This is after nearly a week of comparing them. Both measure flat so I can't explain the cause. They both sound identical except when it comes to soundstage differences. What causes the differences is up to someone else to figure out. The Modi just sounded more right to me and was $50 cheaper. I'd be happy with either.
 
Have you compared both? If not you would just have to hear them both.
 
You sound like one of those who think the ODAC is the world's most perfect DAC. Nothing wrong with that and it's probably close! To me the Modi sounds like the ODAC with a slightly more accurate/better soundstage. Again, don't know what causes the differences. I think i've seen that the Modi has very low distortion  that's comparable to the ODAC. The differences in sound are so minor that's it's not worth arguing over.
 
People should compare them both before saying I'm wrong etc.
 
One good example is on the Red Violin soundtrack. A man is playing a violin in front of you (nothing else in the recording) and gets closer and closer and closer. On the ODAC it's almost impossible to tell the short distances between the start and end. Nitpick much? It sounds like it's mostly coming from one specific area on the ODAC. Not sure why.
 
Picking any songs where the vocals are more distant sounding is a good test. Not distant, but say spaced back a tad.
 
Could be many different reasons including the Modi being less transparent. But they basically sound identical to me, so that's all that matters. Comparing the HRT MSII to the ODAC is stupid easy, but the Modi and ODAC is majorly tough.

 

[HaVoC-28]

Comparison done with right volume matched ? (With something like a decibel meter)
 
If not everything is possible

 
Give me many DAC if they are not volume matched they all will sound different to me

(or almost) , but if they are volume matched huhu . (if they are not faulty or anything ) .
 
A-GD NFB-2/17.2 , Ha Info U2 Plus , ODAC , Pioneer DVD player , Creative X-Fi Titanium HD , Spitfire MK2 , at volume matched ... damn all sound the same , no volume matched : almost all sounded different ...
 
 
Who does correctly volume matched comparison here ? , not many i think ^^ , hears are not like decibel meters they can't know if their is 0.5db + or - . And this 0.5 db can change many things like perceveid soudstage , mids etc
 
 
Peraphs some will hear differences i don't know , i just speak about my limited experiences , at least i am no more subject to evil placebo and i thik that transparent device should sound all the same .
 
And about Modi VS ODAC
 
Output Level, Maximum: 1.5V RMS (Schiit Modi)
 
ODAC is 2.0V (standard redbook)  
 
 
If you don't do any volume matching it will sound different for sure . 
 
 
No volume matching effects are underestimate here .

 

[LoveKnight]

Then how do we do the volume matching? Sorry I am still a new small bird in audio.

 

[HaVoC-28]

Quote:

Then how do we do the volume matching? Sorry I am still a new small bird in audio.

 
A decibel meter , a constant tone and it's done .

 

[adydula]

The difference for me between the ODAC and the HRT Streamer II + was zip, zero , nada....not difficult at all to tell that they sound very much alike.
If you take a look at the schematic the AOUTL and AOUTR are pretty much direct outputs to the output jack. There is a series resistor and cap in each of the audio output lines.
 
The only real impact on the analog would be in this route or in the DAC chip itself on the analog side after the conversion.
 
I highly doubt there is any real world difference at all being heard here.....maybe its the brand of beer your drinking?? LOL.
 
All the best
Alex

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

The difference for me between the ODAC and the HRT Streamer II + was zip, zero , nada....not difficult at all to tell that they sound very much alike.
If you take a look at the schematic the AOUTL and AOUTR are pretty much direct outputs to the output jack. There is a series resistor and cap in each of the audio output lines.
 
The only real impact on the analog would be in this route or in the DAC chip itself on the analog side after the conversion.
 
I highly doubt there is any real world difference at all being heard here.....maybe its the brand of beer your drinking?? LOL.
 
All the best
Alex

 
HRT MSII+ and not the regular MSII? If so this makes sense probably. I had the $150 MSII and not the + version.
I've found the MSII to add a little warmth to some headphones. It did that for the SRH-940, Q701, K601 and a few others. I guess some could say it's leaning over to being slightly "musical". Whatever the heck that means.
When I got my ODAC I was surprised at how much more smoother my Q701 sounded. The differences were quite large for me. Soundstage of the MSII was awful IMO. People can cry over that comment if they want

Maybe it was due to the extra warmth of the MSII. With extra warmth your brain is fooled into thinking the soundstage is smaller.
I seriously blamed my amp for the longest time for having a small soundstage and it was caused by the HRT MSII. Zero doubt of that.
 
Maybe the HRT MSII+ is meant to be as transparent as possible and the MSII a little less so. Who knows..
 
Also there are people out there that can't tell the difference between the ODAC and a $35 X-Fi Go Pro

There isn't even a massive difference between the Go Pro and the Modi/ODAC.
 
I rarely ever go by DAC reviews anymore and usually I base it all on how well they play with my headphones. If they're adding too much of anything I'm not really interested. A tiny bit of warmth is OK sometimes.
I've found the HRT MSII to be too warm with my DJ100 and it wasn't due to the amps.
 
To me it seems like the most popular amps and DACs on Head-Fi are usually slightly colored.
 
Now I wonder how the Bifrost compares to the ODAC?

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

The difference for me between the ODAC and the HRT Streamer II + was zip, zero , nada....not difficult at all to tell that they sound very much alike.
If you take a look at the schematic the AOUTL and AOUTR are pretty much direct outputs to the output jack. There is a series resistor and cap in each of the audio output lines.
 
The only real impact on the analog would be in this route or in the DAC chip itself on the analog side after the conversion.
 
I highly doubt there is any real world difference at all being heard here.....maybe its the brand of beer your drinking?? LOL.
 
All the best
Alex

 
I agree. The ODAC and O2 are definitely not the only neutral devices on the market. They're simply the ones I chose.
 
Unfortunately, by attempting to point out a series of misconceptions, I seem to have blasphemed against someone's  "I don't know but I must be right" religious cult. Again.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
I agree. The ODAC and O2 are definitely not the only neutral devices on the market. They're simply the ones I chose.
 
Unfortunately, by attempting to point out a series of misconceptions, I seem to have blasphemed against someone's  "I don't know but I must be right" religious cult. Again.

What the heck are you talking about?
religious cult? A little bit over dramatic aren't we?
What's just as bad are those that think all neutral devices must sound exactly the same if they measure flat.
Then they claim they know exactly what something sounds like without actually having tried it.
FYI nobody here is claiming they're right, but just trying to figure out what causes all the changes we're hearing. Nothing wrong with that.
What's more cult-like are those that think the ODAC is so transparent that everything that sounds very slightly different must obviously be colored.