Bowers & Wilkins PX Noise-Cancelling Over-ears
Oct 24, 2017 at 12:28 PM Post #706 of 2,912
Even SBC supports 345 kbit/s. aptX and aptX HD only provide an advantage for higher quality sources.

True, although it's not just throughput, AptX also does some trickery with the frequency bands, sending some frequencies through at higher quality than others to overall optimize the sound within the throughput ...

... which is why Qualcomm claims AptX is CD quality even though it's 4x slower.
 
Oct 24, 2017 at 3:00 PM Post #707 of 2,912
I have to agree across the board here. I'm a software developer, have been wearing these ~6-8 hours a day in ~2 hour stretches. I had some comfort issues at first with both earpads and headband, but they're noticeably improving over time, and approaching outright comfortable. I was also coming from PM-3 driven by a dragonfly 1.2

As picky as it is, your comments about how they sit on the neck are spot on. With my PM-3 I could rotate them flat so that the ear pads were resting against my chest instead of the backs of the earcups. A small gripe, but hey, that's how happy I am with these.

Re: Neck wear, my GF pointed out I was doing it wrong and to fold the cups inward so that the speakers rest against your chest. Not how they fall naturally, speakers up, which I'd say is a design flaw but I also recognise the physics of metal earcups being heavier than earpads... maybe could have been addressed by where the pivot point sits on the cup?

Unfortunately... comfort hasn't increased for me. I was fine with them at first for the short stints I'd use them, but prolonged use (hacking the codes) is still giving me hot spots regardless of how I angle the headphones to sit. I've been trying to play with enlarging the headphones so that the headband barely sits on me, distributing some of the weight to the cups, but it's a fine balance to hit. Compared to the PM-3 which I can just throw on any which way and feel like a cloud on my head despite their weight.

Gotta give props to sony on the 1000XM2/B... they replaced the cracky plastic up top with a metal band. It's flexible, thin, and has a good deal of cushion on it. Feels great compared to the PX, which has a liiiitle bit of padding over it's hard core of a headband. I had the same issue with the Beo H9 headband. Maybe heavy, luxurious metals aren't the right design choice for portable headphones. PM-3 managed to make something that looks high end while using mostly plastic (China's good at that ) even if the design is boxy... I'll call it understated.

Heat, the PX does really well. Noticeably cooler than PM-3 or 1000XM2/B. Because the pads are stiffer maybe, they don't hug and stifle as much. But I think the stiffer pads contribute to what I don't like about the PX sound... I need to learn more terminology but something about the low mids feels way to slammy. I noticed HP with softer pads like the PM-3 and TMA-2 S02E06 combo don't have that problem, even though the TMA2 has some bass boost going on (more than PM-3, less than PX).

I'm a huge waffle, HP are a journey... right now the PM-3 are the set I compare everything else against, they're trusty and reliable. I was gifted some JBL Everest Elite by a friend who works there so maybe I'll settle with those when I really need noise canceling (rare) and keep the PM-3 for like... everything else

And see where wireless anc is at in another generation. Now that DAC are built into all the headsets, exposing EQ seems so obvious and easy. JBL does it nicely and it bakes into the headset which is awesome, I hope the rest of the manufacturers figure out how to do it. If I could do that with the PX! H9 has EQ but only with their app open, have put in a feature request for it to bake but their response was entirely non-committal.

As for AptX-HD, that was my impression too. I don't own the PX, but with my B&W P7w I can definitely tell between SBC and AptX with SBC sounding "grainier" and of course wired passively via a 2015 MBP's port sounds excellent.

Using lossless source?
 
Oct 24, 2017 at 3:39 PM Post #708 of 2,912
Question:

I'm considering getting these, and I may be switching between wireless and analog from time to time. If it's possible, can someone compare the sound difference of the PX between analog vs wireless vs usb-c?

Thanks.
I have done tests as well. In the office I usually listen to 24/96 flac, spotify on my iPhone while travelling. Wireless and USB-C sound very similar to me, furthermore if connected via USB to my MBP retina, it often changes to very low quality (I guess it is switching to "headset mode" because of Skype), which is something like 8 bit 11kHz (maybe higher, but really terrible). I think the PXs do their best on analogue wired connection, I really enjoy their sound when connected to the DragonFly 1.2. Balanced, detailed, full of musicality and enjoyment. I think it is a clear difference, a level up.

On USB-C connection there is not only USB output, but also USB input functionality, that uses the built-in mic of the PXs. USB input for me seems to be working only in terrible mode mentioned above, but works. Interesting, that sometimes it switches over to this mode on my Macbook, even when connected over Bluetooth. It never happens on any of my phones though, even Skype, Facetime, or other communication software works in normal resolution. The maximum setting for audio output with usb connection is 16bit/48kHz, no hi-res option.
 
Oct 24, 2017 at 3:48 PM Post #709 of 2,912
Using lossless source?

AptX supports 16-bit 48 kHz data and AptX-HD 24-bit 48 kHz, i.e., not 96kHz or above, so aptX HD isn’t a lossless format as bluetooth has limited bandwidth with which to transmit the data. With both codecs, qualcomm uses 4:1 compression with AptX sending at 352 kbps and AptX-HD at 576 kbps (which is about 1/4 of the bitrate of an uncompressed 24-bit 48 kHz file)

Both codecs use "split-band adaptive differential pulse-code modulation" (ADPCM) which differs from PCM files in that it doesn’t encode the sample at a specific amplitude, but encodes the difference which is how AptX pulls off using less data for higher quality (and why bit rates comparisons for it are kind of meaningless).

Basically AptX-HD splits up the sample into 4 frequency bands which it sends at different accuracies (10 bits, 6, 4, 4) with the lower frequencies being the highest resolution ... so if you send a flac into it, it's going to chop up each 24 bit sample and and send them at differing accuracies, reassembling at the headphone.

Qualcomm claims that, for both, by optimizing the available bandwidth by putting priority onto the most noticeable human ear frequencies, you won't be able to tell the difference between AptX and a raw CD.

Having done non-scientific testing (blind listen to stuff), I can't tell the difference, but I'm also not an audiophile and don't have $2,000 wired DACs and amps to compare to.
 
Oct 24, 2017 at 7:04 PM Post #710 of 2,912
I have just tested the PX today and I must say that the signature sound is different from either the P7 wired and P9. source is a Sony XAi Ultra Android phone with settings turned off. the PX DAC is very much sufficient and I would say that using a DragonFly would really give it some added benefit to it. I like the build aesthetically and much better than my P7s imo. I also love it's style. the signature sound though is warm and can be quite fatiguing after a while and bass does seem to be not exaggerate nor accentuated which can be a bummer for bassheads. soundstage is nice but not overly impressive although I must say that the instrument separation and detail distinction is awesome.

I'm a little bit torn of getting the PX. it is nice in it's own way but it has missing elements that made me fall in love with P7. right now I might be heading the P7W route but would be waiting for Black Friday sales or Holiday deals.
 
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Oct 25, 2017 at 2:41 AM Post #712 of 2,912
Interesting little piece of info:

On my Galaxy Note8, when using USB Audio Player PRO in combination with the Bowers & Wilkins PX in USB mode, Tidal MQA streams are played at 24-bit 48Khz. Of course one needs a Tidal hi-fi subscription for that, but UAPP now has built-in Tidal and Qobuz functionality (As well as UPnP/DLNA etc). Just put in your Tidal credentials and start enjoying .. :)
 
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Oct 25, 2017 at 12:31 PM Post #713 of 2,912
Interesting little piece of info:

On my Galaxy Note8, when using USB Audio Player PRO in combination with the Bowers & Wilkins PX in USB mode, Tidal MQA streams are played at 24-bit 48Khz. Of course one needs a Tidal hi-fi subscription for that, but UAPP now has built-in Tidal and Qobuz functionality (As well as UPnP/DLNA etc). Just put in your Tidal credentials and start enjoying .. :)

so USB Audio Player Pro decodes MQA at full res (or the PX)? I know the Tidal MacOS app doesn't, it just down codes them, and you need Audirvana to do it.

In any event, I'm skeptical that there's any difference that would be apparent without $10,000 of equipment (HiFi headphones, mega DACs, mega Amps, balanced signals, de-crapifiers, etc) ... and even if you had all that stuff would the PX (i.e, closed-back relatively cheap) really be good enough to hear a difference? I'm in the doubter camp.
 
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Oct 25, 2017 at 5:44 PM Post #715 of 2,912
Looking at all these threads, It's probably best if I keep my P7's + Dragonfly red for hi rez audio through my desktop computer at home and the PX for anything away from the computer.

That being said I probably sit at my desktop for a total of 1 hour in the past year.
 
Oct 25, 2017 at 5:45 PM Post #716 of 2,912
Anybody noticed issues with the remote buttons? On my google pixel all worked fine with Spotify but the buttons are all over the place with Apple Music e.g. 1 click restarts the current track rather than pauses, 2 clicks works ok to advance but 3 clicks does not go back. Very odd.

Anybody else had issues!
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 8:15 AM Post #717 of 2,912
so USB Audio Player Pro decodes MQA at full res (or the PX)? I know the Tidal MacOS app doesn't, it just down codes them, and you need Audirvana to do it.

In any event, I'm skeptical that there's any difference that would be apparent without $10,000 of equipment (HiFi headphones, mega DACs, mega Amps, balanced signals, de-crapifiers, etc) ... and even if you had all that stuff would the PX (i.e, closed-back relatively cheap) really be good enough to hear a difference? I'm in the doubter camp.

The PX DAC does step 2 in the process, UAPP does step 1. In similar fashion as the Dragonfly Red USB DAC, the PX DAC serves as a renderer in the MQA decoding process.

While I agree that $10k+ equipment generally allows you to benefit more from Hi-Res source material, depending on how good ones hearing is, one does not need to invest much to get audible improvements. The difference between the analog outputs on my Note8 and LG G6 Quad-Dac phones clearly demonstrate that ...
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 11:14 AM Post #719 of 2,912
Anybody noticed issues with the remote buttons? On my google pixel all worked fine with Spotify but the buttons are all over the place with Apple Music e.g. 1 click restarts the current track rather than pauses, 2 clicks works ok to advance but 3 clicks does not go back. Very odd.

Anybody else had issues!
I have no issues with the buttons neither in Tidal nor Apple Music (on my iPhone 6s). One button pauses, two moves forward one track, three presses moves back to the beginning/or previous track as expected. I have to press the button three times relatively fast though for the backwards command to work correctly.
 
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Oct 26, 2017 at 12:14 PM Post #720 of 2,912
The PX DAC does step 2 in the process, UAPP does step 1. In similar fashion as the Dragonfly Red USB DAC, the PX DAC serves as a renderer in the MQA decoding process.

While I agree that $10k+ equipment generally allows you to benefit more from Hi-Res source material, depending on how good ones hearing is, one does not need to invest much to get audible improvements. The difference between the analog outputs on my Note8 and LG G6 Quad-Dac phones clearly demonstrate that ...

There even quite a difference between my 12.9 iPad Pro (2017) and my iPhone 6S plus :p
 

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