[Beagle]

This conversation makes me wonder why some people listen to music if they’re bored enough with their music recodings that they need to stretch the frequency response out of wack with badly designed headphones.

This conversation makes me wonder if certain people even enjoy music or they just the sound it makes through their gear in order for them to analyze the gear.

Do you have to wait a week before drinking milk after eating apple sauce for the milk to taste good?

No. Why would you do that?

 

[QueueCumber]

This conversation makes me wonder if certain people even enjoy music or they just the sound it makes through their gear in order for them to analyze the gear.

If you can’t attack the points attack the person? Good luck with that...

No. Why would you do that?

Yes, exactly. Comparing milk and apple sauce to headphones was not a great analogy...

 

[Beagle]

Yes, exactly. Comparing milk and apple sauce to headphones was not a great analogy...

But it was. You just didn't get it.

 

[QueueCumber]

But it was. You just didn't get it.

Milk and Apple Sauce don’t have absolute metrics of perfection in relationship to one another. Headphones do have that metric. Of course, if you prefer your music to sound different because you’re bored, go ahead, but it won’t necessarily be close to what the artist/engineer wanted you to hear. Likewise, unlike the P9 (apparently), they don’t require an entire week of abstinence before they taste/sound better.

 

[GREQ]

This conversation makes me wonder why grown men are still eating apple sauce... that stuff's for toddlers.
For shame...

 

[QueueCumber]

This conversation makes me wonder why grown men are still eating apple sauce... that stuff's for toddlers.
For shame...

Roflmao.

Never underestimate a good potato pancake or perogie with apple sauce (and sour cream!). They sound great together!

 

[Sonic Defender]

@QueueCumber, you really are taking things way to far and being very prescriptive in suggesting the correct way that people should go about enjoying their headphone listening. Perhaps you might take a look at what people were actually saying and consider whether or not your responses are proportionate.

 

[QueueCumber]

@QueueCumber, you really are taking things way to far and being very prescriptive in suggesting the correct way that people should go about enjoying their headphone listening. Perhaps you might take a look at what people were actually saying and consider whether or not your responses are proportionate.

Not really. It’s standard transducer science at this point that people prefer a flat frequency response in double blind tests (with a slightly raised bass). I honestly don’t care what you buy and (think you) enjoy. It’s your money dude. Spend it on whatever you want.

But when you encourage people to try to get over a flaw in the product by not listening to any other headphones for a weak, it becomes farcical. Why should he jump through all those hoops to compensate for bad design on a relatively pricy headphone?

In any case, whatever you think of me, I feel obligated to point out how ridiculous that notion is on a product of this price.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Not really. It’s standard transducer science at this point that people prefer a flat frequency response in double blind tests (with a slightly raised bass). I honestly don’t care what you buy and (think you) enjoy. It’s your money dude. But when you encourage people to try to get over a flaw in the product by not listening to any other headphones for a weak, it becomes farcical. Why should he jump through all those hoops to compensate for bad design on a relatively pricy headphone.

Ok, you really need to check yourself, you are spiraling. First off, I do not own the P9 and I never owned it. I borrowed it from a friend and while I rather enjoyed it and can see how some people would love it, I don't think it is a signature that I would jive with in the long run. I give that advice to everybody who is trying to make up their mind about a signature. You really are way, way off base here. I wasn't encouraging or discouraging, I was simply suggesting a method by which an assessment could be made. You have a very particular and strong belief it seems about how to determine what works for you. Kudos to you, I am happy for you that you know what you like. I however do tend to give things a little more time and avoid snap decisions. I don't think that is a particularly controversial position for me to take.

Between the two of us, I would say you are being far more prescriptive. I was simply suggesting a method that I use. If I had the power to compel people to do what I suggested I can assure you that I wouldn't be wasting that power here with you.

 

[someyoungguy]

Well I seem to have set off some negative energy here, didn't mean to do that Thanks for the advice @Sonic Defender and others. I'll certain experiment with them for some time, and fully agree that after taking the time to read this thread and various reviews as well as spend the $ on them, putting in some extra time to get acclimatized is worth it. At worst, I won't like them, but I do feel in this hobby it can be worthwhile listening in depth to try and figure out exactly what aspect of a sound you don't like about something as large changes in sound signature can be a bit disorienting at first. I'll keep fiddling with EQ and different albums I have and post back some thoughts after a few weeks (I'll be away on holiday for some of that time and won't get any listening done anyway).

 

[QueueCumber]

Ok, you really need to check yourself, you are spiraling. First off, I do not own the P9 and I never owned it. I borrowed it from a friend and while I rather enjoyed it and can see how some people would love it, I don't think it is a signature that I would jive with in the long run. I give that advice to everybody who is trying to make up their mind about a signature. You really are way, way off base here. I wasn't encouraging or discouraging, I was simply suggesting a method by which an assessment could be made. You have a very particular and strong belief it seems about how to determine what works for you. Kudos to you, I am happy for you that you know what you like. I however do tend to give things a little more time and avoid snap decisions. I don't think that is a particularly controversial position for me to take.

Between the two of us, I would say you are being far more prescriptive. I was simply suggesting a method that I use. If I had the power to compel people to do what I suggested I can assure you that I wouldn't be wasting that power here with you.

It’s great to take some time, but the glaring issue with these particular headphones was obvious to the poster. Why should he take more time if he already knows he doesn’t like the “signature” sound? He wants to fix the issue, not live with it (or maybe not based on his post after this one—but I still would encourage anyone who doesn’t like the signature sound of any headphone to return them and not try to force them to sound better). IME, a good sounding headphone sounds pretty good right off the bat, and any subtle issues show up over time via cross-comparisons. A bad headphone is pretty obvious to me right off the bat, which is why I returned mine to BB before the return period expired.

BTW, I really do think these would likely sound great if the EQ is tweaked correctly with good software. I just don’t buy closed backs to use with a PC. For me, closed-backs and ear-buds, are for falling asleep in bed at night and/or travel, so EQing is just a hassle.

Actually, even with open-backs, I probably wouldn’t keep them if I felt they needed the kind of EQ the P9 requires, but the point is that there is a software fix if you’re stuck with them.

 

[Sonic Defender]

@QueueCumber, How I read the OP's post was somebody who was on the fence hence my suggestions. Generally speaking I agree that you should enjoy the stock signature of a headphone, ideally. Saying that, over the years I have moved from being a purist who didn't like to use equalization to somebody who will put in moderate effort. For example, if a headphone is say 95% what I want it to sound like, but super comfortable and well built, and I just like how it looks and feels, in that situation I may work at tweaking it to see if I can get the sound where it needs to be. That is a reasonable amount of effort and undertaken when I think the rewards justify the effort. If they don't, I eventually move on.

I actually find equalizing pretty simple. I tend to research and read many peoples impressions, I look at the measurements from reputable sources and then I go from there. After many years of experience in audio hobbies and as a musician of sorts I don't find it difficult to set up a few filters. I save a preset with the headphones name and any time I use the headphone I simply enable the appropriate preset. Even portably Onkyo HF Player has a nice and easy to use FIR equalizer and I have several presets. It takes all of 10 seconds to activate or defeat the equalizer so not really an issue for me. Cheers.

 

[QueueCumber]

@QueueCumber, How I read the OP's post was somebody who was on the fence hence my suggestions. Generally speaking I agree that you should enjoy the stock signature of a headphone, ideally. Saying that, over the years I have moved from being a purist who didn't like to use equalization to somebody who will put in moderate effort. For example, if a headphone is say 95% what I want it to sound like, but super comfortable and well built, and I just like how it looks and feels, in that situation I may work at tweaking it to see if I can get the sound where it needs to be. That is a reasonable amount of effort and undertaken when I think the rewards justify the effort. If they don't, I eventually move on.

I actually find equalizing pretty simple. I tend to research and read many peoples impressions, I look at the measurements from reputable sources and then I go from there. After many years of experience in audio hobbies and as a musician of sorts I don't find it difficult to set up a few filters. I save a preset with the headphones name and any time I use the headphone I simply enable the appropriate preset. Even portably Onkyo HF Player has a nice and easy to use FIR equalizer and I have several presets. It takes all of 10 seconds to activate or defeat the equalizer so not really an issue for me. Cheers.

Yeah, It’s nothing personal. I love B&W, so for me it’s a bit disappointing what they did with these and it was obviously aimed at a certain market. I love my surround sound 803 D3 setup, and it took me months to find the flattest response area in the room where the speakers disappeared, but they sound incredibly balanced in a room when set up well. I’d love to see a P10 or PX where they utilize their best technology and make a more neutral sounding headphone.

There are some very easy to use PC apps for parametric EQ. I try to avoid EQ as much as possible (which is why I took months to set up the in-room speakers until I was able to eliminate boominess in lower frequency instruments and voices, e.g. songs like Natalie Metchant’s River is a great song for detecting bass issues in human voice), but those Kanto YU2 speakers needed it badly right off the bat. They boosted the bass to the point where it was generating distortion. With the bass hump EQed down they’re absolutely amazing speakers for the price. Like ridiculous value for the price and materials they are using (Kevlar!)...

 

[Beagle]

Milk and Apple Sauce don’t have absolute metrics of perfection in relationship to one another. Headphones do have that metric. Of course, if you prefer your music to sound different because you’re bored, go ahead, but it won’t necessarily be close to what the artist/engineer wanted you to hear. Likewise, unlike the P9 (apparently), they don’t require an entire week of abstinence before they taste/sound better.

Are you being dense on purpose? Or are you seriously not getting it?

 

[Sonic Defender]

Yeah, It’s nothing personal. I love B&W, so for me it’s a bit disappointing what they did with these and it was obviously aimed at a certain market. I love my surround sound 803 D3 setup, and it took me months to find the flattest response area in the room where the speakers disappeared, but they sound incredibly balanced in a room when set up well. I’d love to see a P10 or PX where they utilize their best technology and make a more neutral sounding headphone.

There are some very easy to use PC apps for parametric EQ. I try to avoid EQ as much as possible (which is why I took months to set up the in-room speakers until I was able to eliminate boominess in lower frequency instruments and voices, e.g. songs like Natalie Metchant’s River is a great song for detecting bass issues in human voice), but those Kanto YU2 speakers needed it badly right off the bat. They boosted the bass to the point where it was generating distortion. With the bass hump EQed down they’re absolutely amazing speakers for the price. Like ridiculous value for the price and materials they are using (Kevlar!)...

Nice setup, looks like a great room. I also really like B&W. I owned the P7 wireless, the PX (although I returned them due to comfort issues) and I have an old pair of classic DM220 speakers that I don't use. I actually had a nice Kanto set YU5s and the Sub to go along with them. I agree the consumer tuning wasn't optimum, but in the desktop setup that I used them for they did the trick well enough. Never did try equalizing them but I suspect that you're right that with EQ they would sound brilliant for the price. Currently speaker wise I am using Monitor Audio PL200s supported by two little REL TZero subs, but the room is quite small so haven't bothered even looking at room nodes. Things generally sound quite nice and I do nearfield so no real issues that I have noticed. The bass is powerful generally, but that was to be expected and I listen at moderate volumes these days.