Bowers&Wilkins new flagship the P9!

[GREQ]

Absolutely, nothing stopping them. For me it seems a shame to not try equalization first, in particular if I for instance mostly like the sound signature in conjunction with enjoying the fit and finish. In such a situation I just feel it makes more sense to at least try and see if I can't make things workable. In theory, regardless of what we read, you could go from headphone, to headphone, to headphone, never finding anything exactly right because of all the variables. Assuming you find a proper fit and finish, small issues in sound signatures seem reasonable enough to try and fix/mitigate via equalization, but I agree, that is a personal decision. Each to their own and there is no wrong approach.

Agreed.
Sometimes you listen to a new headphone and something unique or special about the presentation (not the tonality) just floors you, so you work on squeezing out the full potential of the characteristics that were lacking or missing in all the other headphones.
That can also be a long-winding and maddening experience.

 

[Rakoni]

Agreed.
Sometimes you listen to a new headphone and something unique or special about the presentation (not the tonality) just floors you, so you work on squeezing out the full potential of the characteristics that were lacking or missing in all the other headphones.
That can also be a long-winding and maddening experience.

Luckily in the case of P9 it's literally just a 2-3 dB cut in a rather narrow frequency range.

 

[GREQ]

Luckily in the case of P9 it's literally just a 2-3 dB cut in a rather narrow frequency range.

For you perhaps

 

[Release]

I just wanted to add a quick review here as this forum was very useful.

I bought these headphones in February for 500. I had tried the BD Amiron home and 1990 first then realised after a week with both of these I don't like the analytical, fatiguing sound so decided after more research I wanted a warmer, more pleasant experience with a kick and opted to give these a go.

I am glad I did. The build quality is excellent, the leather and cups are a good size and I find the headphones to be comfortable but in this regard I thought the Amiron's probably edged it.
Musically the bass has a very pleasant deep throb in the ear which is clearly the frequency B&W have the most fun with. I do think there is great clarity across the entire range with vocals and trebles never fighting against the bass but that low rumble behind everything is what makes them unique. However, it's only been this week that these headphones have sounded so incredible. It has taken 7 weeks of fairly regular usage to get to a point where I feel they are worth 500 pounds. Some reviewers said 30 hours, others 50. I must have used these for over 100 to get to this point but it was very much worth it. I can see if you bought these and listened for a couple of hours you would be extremely dissappointed as that thump and musical expanse I love only came with time.

Ultimatly a fantastic pair of headphones with a focus on experience not precision but to reiterate what everyone says they really do need time to get there.

 

[JoePR31]

The PX sounded better to me.

I own both, and if by better you mean more neutral, then yes, that is true. But, having a more neutral tuning doesn’t make a headphone technically better than another. While the PX is a great wireless portable headphone and a better all rounder, in regards to raw technical ability, the P9 is better in most ways.

Quick comparison review:

The P9 has substantially better detail retrieval. The bass, the mids, and the highs of the P9 are more detailed. It also has a slightly wider soundstage than the PX (although the PX’s soundstage is great, for a wireless portable headphone), and better imaging. The treble of the P9 is on the polite side, but I wouldn’t call it excessively rolled off. The PX does have more sparkle, though. The timbré of the P9 is also more realistic in general, although the tuning of the P9 can get in the way of that timbré, especially in the midrange, which is a bit dark and thick sounding.

Speaking of tuning, I think B&W got carried away chasing a certain sound with the P9, and ended up with a headphone that is very capable, but far from a good all rounder. Outside of portability, this is the one area where the PX is substantially better. The PX is a very good all rounder, due to it’s much more neutral tuning. The P9 can sound very good and fun with bass heavy music, or with the opposite...music with no bass instruments. Music in between those two extremes just doesn’t sound right to me. The bass is way more forward than it should be, and tends to overpower the rest of the music.

Then there’s the comfort, or lack there of. The P9 is on the heavy side, and clamps hard. The pads are comfortable, well made, and large enough for most ears, but they can’t quite manage to compensate for the clamp and weight of the headphone. For my head, the PX version 2.0 (that comes with the black hard case), with the softer pads and headband cushion, are more comfortable than the P9.

One more issue with the P9, and advantage for the PX. Although the dyed lambskin leather used on the ear pads and over the headband cushion feels great and looks good at first, it doesn’t hold up to long term use. The brown dye is not durable, and within a year was already fading away to reveal the black leather underneath. Not a good look on any headphone, much less $899 ones. The leather on the headband cushion is glued on, and on my P9 started to separate from the rest of the headband after about a year and a half of ownership. The leather on the PX has not had any of these issues, and certainly won’t discolor, since it’s already black.

 

[gazzington]

So are these still a good purchase in 2020? I listen to all sorts of music but lots of metal and electronic stuff

 

[Repoman1966]

Has anyone here who have P9’s also got an LG G5 with the B&O Hi-Fi Plus module? I received my Hi-Fi Plus module today and it’s certainly an improvement over the lightning cable with built in DAC. I’m using the Onkyo HF player app.The phone automatically recognises the Hi-Fi Plus as a USB module. When playing you get a Hi-Fi notification at top of the screen.

 

[someyoungguy]

So I finally got a pair of these. I own (and love) the P7s so was curious to see what the next model up had to offer. I'd read a lot of reviews and this thread and was aware that it was a very divisive headphone.

So far, I find them certainly to have a very unusual tuning and approach to presenting music.

There is a very nice sense of space, probably due to the angled drivers. I remember trying out some headphones from a Japanese brand Crossfeed at a Canjam who have a similar approach with angled cups (and multiple drivers within the cup too), and these sound similar (in terms of space and soundstage) to what I remember hearing there. Seems like angled drivers are a winner for a more out of your head sound.

People say they're hugely bassy but for me I find the emphasis seems to be higher, up in the upper bass or lower mids. There's a strange resonance there which can overpower everything depending on what's playing, e.g. an instrument right at that level. But even without anything specifically focused on that frequency, it is still to the fore - snare drums, for example, instead of sounding snappy having a more round mid whack/thump to them. I've been trying different EQ options on an M11Pro and Plenue S, dropping frequencies around 250-500 Hz, but so far haven't been able to settle on anything that completed resolves the issue. The combination with MojoPoly, which has no EQ, isn't great.

In other senses they do have benefits - more detail and in some ways instruments can sound fuller sound compared to the P7s. In fact, the P7s sound quite bright and anaemic after switching from the P9s, which I never thought I'd say. But the P7s are way easier to listen to because of the above resonance issue and present a more coherent frequency response. The P7s also feel punchier, whereas the attack of notes feels a bit more rounded off on the P9s. Mids and some vocals can also sound strangely veiled and distant on the P9s too.

Ironically (for something designed to play music, i.e. instruments) I find they handle tracks or genres with a more stripped down palette or set of instruments best, probably because it helps avoid problems with that strange resonance spot. I was listening to Myrkur's Mausoleum yesterday on them (female vocals, small choir and sparse guitar/piano), which sounded great - maybe also because the vocals and instruments tended to be higher in frequency than that resonance spot.

So in all a very unusual headphone. Probably the strangest headphone tuning I've heard since the Audioquest Nighthawk/Owl offerings. Maybe I'll keep experimenting before making a decision about whether to keep them. Kind of seemed to me like someone at B&W was onto something interesting, but a prototype during the experimentation stage got released with unresolved issues, as if they needed to keep going with other damping or venting to get a more linear frequency response but management just pushed it out into production before the technicians had finished I'd be curious to know what EQ adjustments others have found useful.

For reference, the other headphones I own/ed have generally been lower to mid-fi offerings, but include Shure SRH1540, Sennheiser Momentum 2, 630VB, HD6XX, HD58X, Meze 99 classics.

 

[Sonic Defender]

@someyoungguy, I agree that the P9 is very deliberately tuned. I would say to give them a solid week if possible and don't go back and forth between headphones, just use the P9. Our brain takes time to acclimate to new sound signatures so in order to really decide if the P9 can work for you ideally you give it that exclusive time. The P9 is capable of being really brilliant and when the music matches it's particular tuning strength it can put a huge smile on your face, but that is not a universal effect.

I would also say trying an equalizer, preferably a parametric equalizer, is well worth the effort. I have the Sony XM3 as one of my portable choices and at first I did not like it and I was going to return it to Amazon. The bass was quite overblown. On a hunch I decided to use the built in equalizer that comes with the rather excellent Onkyo HF Player that I use on my phone. I am very glad that I did as once I liberated the XM3 driver from the terrible stock tuning Sony pushed the headphone became quite different sounding, and very competent. I ended up really liking it because with the bass bloat trimmed away the rest of the frequencies could breath and what I ended up with was a very musical and rather competent headphone so please do consider trying to equalize the strange resonance down and see what you end up with.

Whatever you do please let us know. Cheers.

 

[QueueCumber]

@someyoungguyI would say to give them a solid week if possible and don't go back and forth between headphones, just use the P9. Our brain takes time to acclimate to new sound signatures so in order to really decide if the P9 can work for you ideally you give it that exclusive time.

So he would have to listen to the P9 sounding like garbage for a week (or listen to nothing for a week) anytime he wants to enjoy these headphones (if he can even get used to the overly-ripe bass)? Not sure how this could be remotely appealing to anyone.

I think he’s on the right track with trying to EQ out the issue. It might be better to run the P9 through a PC and use one of the free parametric EQs on the market. This is what I had to do with my Kanto Y2 speakers I bought, which basically have a overly-ripe bass issues from like 150hz to 350hz. I was able to iron it right out with Equalizer APO.

But, the YU2s are cheap speakers, so it doesn’t bother me to do that. At the price of the P9 I would expect them to sound better out of the box...

 

[Sonic Defender]

So he would have to listen to the P9 sounding like garbage for a week (or listen to nothing for a week) anytime he wants to enjoy these headphones (if he can even get used to the overly-ripe bass)? Not sure how this could be remotely appealing to anyone.

I think he’s on the right track with trying to EQ out the issue. It might be better to run the P9 through a PC and use one of the free parametric EQs on the market. This is what I had to do with my Kanto Y2 speakers I bought, which basically have a overly-ripe bass issues from like 150hz to 350hz. I was able to iron it right out with Equalizer APO.

But, the YU2s are cheap speakers, so it doesn’t bother me to do that. At the price of the P9 I would expect them to sound better out of the box...

Really, you think trying something for a week is a huge issue? I don't hence my suggestion. If I want to acclimate to a new signature that is what I do. Jumping from headphone to headphone with different tunings can be fun, and is why many of us own multiple headphones, but when you want to really get to know a signature a little time commitment is reasonable. I mean a week, how bad is that? If you are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on something and all the time researching it, buying it, waiting for it to arrive only to say that a week head-time is too much seems incongruent to me.

 

[Beagle]

Really, you think trying something for a week is a huge issue? I don't hence my suggestion. If I want to acclimate to a new signature that is what I do. Jumping from headphone to headphone with different tunings can be fun, and is why many of us own multiple headphones, but when you want to really get to know a signature a little time commitment is reasonable. I mean a week, how bad is that? If you are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on something and all the time researching it, buying it, waiting for it to arrive only to say that a week head-time is too much seems incongruent to me.

Exactly.

Drinking milk after eating apple sauce is unpleasant but on their own, taste quite good. And just comparing one headphone to another one after the other is stupid, you don't get a bead on anything. You need some sort of firm reference in reality, like actual live sounds. Then ask yourself if your gear can replicate or simulate that.

 

[QueueCumber]

Really, you think trying something for a week is a huge issue? I don't hence my suggestion. If I want to acclimate to a new signature that is what I do. Jumping from headphone to headphone with different tunings can be fun, and is why many of us own multiple headphones, but when you want to really get to know a signature a little time commitment is reasonable. I mean a week, how bad is that? If you are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on something and all the time researching it, buying it, waiting for it to arrive only to say that a week head-time is too much seems incongruent to me.

Because the 7-8 pair of high-end headphones and ear buds I already own don’t require me to take a week or even a few hours to get used to them when I switch from one pair to another or to just get used to their sound in general. A good headphone doesn’t require that kind of effort to sound good.

It’s like B&W ignored the Harman double blind research on frequency response. A little extra bass is ok, but not a lot, which is sad because their 803 D3 speakers are quite exceptional and relatively flat. Sure, if you don’t like your music to sound like the engineer wanted it to, then get headphones that have certain frequency ranges out of wack. I don’t listen to music to have everything sound weird and out of proportion due to massive frequency response bumps. Well designed headphones may not make a bad recording sound good, but they make a good sounding recording sound authentic and real. The P9 does not do this for me at all.

I owned the P9 for close to two weeks and gave up because their lower end tuning is way too bass heavy.

 

[QueueCumber]

This conversation makes me wonder why some people listen to music if they’re bored enough with their music recodings that they need to stretch the frequency response out of wack with badly designed headphones.

I listen to music for the emotional valence and the memories, as well as the sense that I’m having an intimate moment with the artist (if the headphones and recording can produce a flat enough sound to seem breathtakingly real).

Really, the emotional valence can happen for me with almost any type of reasonably designed transducer (or even just listening to the memory of the song in my head), so I don’t need special headphones for that. I can get that listening to the music on an 80s boombox. Likewise, memories are generally triggered by the association, not the sound quality. Breathtakingly real, though. That’s a rare quality in a headphone and what makes a headphone worth owning, IMO. I don’t need the music to sound different, just more authentic.

In my experience, flatter frequency response transducers generally sound much more authentic. Of course, there are always crappy engineers out there with material to prove this wrong (because they didn’t engineer the music to be relatively flat). But with well recorded material (not heavily over-emphasizing certain frequencies), a flatter transducer is always the more authentic sounding option, IME.

 

[QueueCumber]

Exactly.

Drinking milk after eating apple sauce is unpleasant but on their own, taste quite good. And just comparing one headphone to another one after the other is stupid, you don't get a bead on anything. You need some sort of firm reference in reality, like actual live sounds. Then ask yourself if your gear can replicate or simulate that.

Do you have to wait a week before drinking milk after eating apple sauce for the milk to taste good?

The issue here is the assumption that headphones can have a frequency response all over the map and still be a good headphones. Thus, one headphone can be milk while another is apple sauce. Really, in sound reproduction, there is one absolute metric trying to be achieved (reproduce the original sound as the engineer and artist wants you to hear it). You’re either heading towards that goal or away from it when comparing milk to apple sauce.