[Sonic Defender]

Has anybody done frequency measurements of the P9 yet? I have searched and not found anything yet, but my searching wasn't exhaustive.

 

[buzzlulu]

On a plane getting ready to take off so a quick reply. Second time around they are doing very NICE.
I still think there is something going on with the very tight seal and the pressure buildup inside. A number of pages back someone mentioned this. Those big 50mm drivers put out a lot of energy which gets trapped by the tight seal and creates a bit of a pressure effect. If I listen to them without my glasses that is what I am getting. If I wear my glasses there is definitely a difference as some of the energy escapes. The low end response changes a bit but not necessarily for the worse. Perhaps a bit less full.

 

[Beagle]

  My personal feeling still remains that the P9 really isn't a true portable headphone, it certainly can be used as such if you like and why not, but to me it would fare better if it was treated as a non-portable. I am looking forward to even more time before I have to return the P9 and without a doubt I can see where the love that many have for the signature comes from.
 
Edit: I know portable means different things to different people, but when I discuss portability I mean when used on the go such as with public transit or walking to the grocery store. In those situations I feel the P9 isn't a true portable, but your view and usage may differ of course.

 
I think I would agree, mostly because I would worry about being hit by a car or bus, due to being engrossed in the music (the bass foundation and power drowning out the sound of the oncoming OC Transpo) 

 
But yeah, it's probably a headphone I'd want to keep indoors as a serious hi-fi rig accessory.

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
I think I would agree, mostly because I would worry about being hit by a car or bus, due to being engrossed in the music (the bass foundation and power drowning out the sound of the oncoming OC Transpo) 

 
But yeah, it's probably a headphone I'd want to keep indoors as a serious hi-fi rig accessory.

LOL, yes, they really have grown on me, quite an engaging sound signature and as I said, with the right recording they are absolutely gorgeous sounding. I would have to say that while the sound stage can't be said to recreate the speaker feel, without a doubt the speaker DNA of the company is clearly present. I think that despite the bass being a central feature two things can really make that work: one, the bass seems to be very good quality and in the vast majority of cases I have heard it is well controlled, and two, like the P7 wireless I owned the P9 has very good layering so the bass still feels that it is where it belongs and the other elements can be distinguished.
 
That isn't to say that with some material the bass can't end up obscuring, it can, but again repeating myself that seems rare, and is also likely influenced significantly by the volume you like. I tend to listen loud so when the few times the track I was playing seemed to suffer from the bass energy I simply turned it down a little and without fail the bass became better integrated.
 
All round the P9 certainly for me is tonally similar to the Z1R in terms of the general proportions of the basic frequencies, and the obvious commitment to creating a very musical signature as opposed to a strictly accurate signal. The Z1R goes about it differently, but thinking globally of tonality as I say, they are quite similar with both being warmish, powerful yet somehow still detailed signatures.
 
Edit: I freely acknowledge that what constitutes an acceptable level of detail and what constitutes obscured sound is very personal and doubtless some will not feel the P9 is for them, but others will love it. You just have to try right?

 

[Beagle]

Not to belabor the point, but I think maybe one similarity is that the P9 (and what I heard on the Z1R) give the music a sense of power, gestalt, a fullness like one hears with real music played live.

 

[Kukua]

Not to belabor the point, but I think maybe one similarity is that the P9 (and what I heard on the Z1R) give the music a sense of power, gestalt, a fullness like one hears with real music played live.

spot on like an experienced audiophile will assert.

 

[PolkManiac]

Has anyone found an EQ yet that helps knock down the mid bass bump on tracks where it's problematic?  I'm going to audition these along with a bunch of other cans tomorrow and I generally am fine with EQing a product so if there's something that works well I'd like to try it out and give them a fair shot

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Has anyone found an EQ yet that helps knock down the mid bass bump on tracks where it's problematic?  I'm going to audition these along with a bunch of other cans tomorrow and I generally am fine with EQing a product so if there's something that works well I'd like to try it out and give them a fair shot

I like to start around 90Hz and drop say 2db and test from there. I'm sure with the quality of the driver and enclosure the P9 should respond to EQing well.
 
Edit: I realise that 90Hz may not be the best target in this case, it is just a typical frequency I like to check, but maybe 100-125Hz may be more fruitful? I should check myself but I have just been trying the stock signature to get a handle on it.

 

[PolkManiac]

Am I crazy or deaf for preferring the P7 Wireless over the P9?  I feel like I need to get a pair to demo in home because I was not at all impressed with the P9 in the store, and I had a quiet room to demo in.  I'm not even considering price, based on what I heard today I would have guessed the P7 were the more expensive headphone.  The P9 sounded very "hollow" to me like the midrange was sucked out, I was surprised to say the least.  The P7 Wireless don't have a super lush or full bodied mid range by any stretch and I expected that going in, but I found the P9 much worse in this regard.  The treble is absolutely better on the P9, no question about that, the P7 is nowhere near as refined up top.  But honestly I don't see the point in having such a refined treble on a headphone that is deeply flawed otherwise, it's like putting $4000 wheels on a $500 1980 Corolla.
 
Both headphones have bass that is elevated well above neutral, if you're sensitive to elevated bass neither of these is probably a good fit.  I love it personally.
- The P9 does indeed have the mid bass hump as others have said, and I wasn't able to really EQ it out.  With more time I could probably figure it out but in the hour or so I had in the store today I wasn't able to get it right.
- The P7 also have an elevated bass, but the elevation on those headphones seems to be lower in the range and doesn't bleed into the midrange as much. 
 
I ended up buying the P7 Wireless today, would have bought the P9 as well but there are none of those to be had anywhere near me.  I"m debating on if I want to order the P9 on Amazon as I do find it slightly more comfortable.  I feel like I MUST have listened to a defective model because I was very disappointed given the expectations set by this thread and reviews online.  If the P9 is a P7 with better treble then I'd say it's worth the extra cost, but with the issues I heard today not so much.

 

[brokenhat]

  Am I crazy or deaf for preferring the P7 Wireless over the P9?  I feel like I need to get a pair to demo in home because I was not at all impressed with the P9 in the store, and I had a quiet room to demo in.  I'm not even considering price, based on what I heard today I would have guessed the P7 were the more expensive headphone.  The P9 sounded very "hollow" to me like the midrange was sucked out, I was surprised to say the least.  The P7 Wireless don't have a super lush or full bodied mid range by any stretch and I expected that going in, but I found the P9 much worse in this regard.  The treble is absolutely better on the P9, no question about that, the P7 is nowhere near as refined up top.  But honestly I don't see the point in having such a refined treble on a headphone that is deeply flawed otherwise, it's like putting $4000 wheels on a $500 1980 Corolla.
 
Both headphones have bass that is elevated well above neutral, if you're sensitive to elevated bass neither of these is probably a good fit.  I love it personally.
- The P9 does indeed have the mid bass hump as others have said, and I wasn't able to really EQ it out.  With more time I could probably figure it out but in the hour or so I had in the store today I wasn't able to get it right.
- The P7 also have an elevated bass, but the elevation on those headphones seems to be lower in the range and doesn't bleed into the midrange as much. 
 
I ended up buying the P7 Wireless today, would have bought the P9 as well but there are none of those to be had anywhere near me.  I"m debating on if I want to order the P9 on Amazon as I do find it slightly more comfortable.  I feel like I MUST have listened to a defective model because I was very disappointed given the expectations set by this thread and reviews online.  If the P9 is a P7 with better treble then I'd say it's worth the extra cost, but with the issues I heard today not so much.

 
You are crazy or deaf for sure, I have and love both but honestly there is no comparison on sound quality.  

 

[PolkManiac]

Has anyone seen measurements of these anywhere yet? If I can get a look at the FR curve I could be convinced that the pair I tried were defective and would buy a pair to test in home.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Has anyone seen measurements of these anywhere yet? If I can get a look at the FR curve I could be convinced that the pair I tried were defective and would buy a pair to test in home.

I can relate. I went to a local audio store and auditioned the P9, left with the P7 wireless and not really feeling the P9 lived up to the hype. I went back a few times to listen and never really shifted my opinion much. Recently a friend of mine kindly left my his P9 and a few other gems to audition. I can say that the P9 is indeed a very good headphone, if you like it's groove. It is not at all meant to be neutral or linear, it is a big bold sound, with plenty of flavour. Often I use it and think man is this a brilliant signature, sometimes I play a song where the bass emphasis is too much, but luckily such occasions seem far less common than the positive experiences.
 
The bass and lower mids seem to have a longer decay which may help project a live, somewhat hall like feel. It can be euphoric and very rich. The treble is a touch restrained, but as you noted, the treble is very good. I play the drums and as such I notice cymbal work and feel I can gauge the realism quite well and I do find that the P9 can really make them sound natural. For sure this headphone will and is polarizing. I have grown to really enjoy it quite a bit, more than I expected actually. I wouldn't recommend it for everybody, but if you like the P7 I can't help but feeling you would be able to dig what the P9 is about. It does take a little time perhaps to acclimate as the unique bass presentation is a statement by B&W. They are going for a powerful and rich sound that makes no apology for wanting to be coloured and engaging. The quality of the voicing is what saves the P9 and makes it nonetheless, a very competent coloured headphone.
 
For those who mesh with this type of signature they will love it. Those who don't will simply think we are nuts and posses a tin ear. It really doesn't matter either way, I like the P9 and will possibly get one although I would really hope in the next few years that B&W issue a 50mm non-portable model. That would be something. 

 

[PolkManiac]

Yeah,, the "hall effect" is exactly what was so exaggerated in the demo unit I heard.  I certainly understand the appeal of music having a live sound to it, I hear you there and saw Beagle's posts on it a few pages back.  My counterpoint to that though is that there's a reason studio monitors are flat and there's a reason that the "hall effect" is not the default DSP on any player or software I've ever used.  Its a neat effect but crafting a whole $900 headphone around that sound seems like a mistake to me, at least to the level that I heard it.  Note that I never expected the P7 or P9 to be neutral headphones, I'm quite familiar with the B&W house sound and came in knowing / expecting / hoping these headphones would have that sound...but what I heard yesterday sounded too heavy handed.
 
The "restrained" treble is what I like better on the P9, I feel like it's not only more refined but is more natural sounding than the P7, the P7 is borderline too bright for my ears.  I'm fine with it on 99% of music as it walks right to the edge and backs off, but on some especially poorly recorded music it's too much.  The P9 lets you hear more of the flaws in that same music, but isn't quite as harsh, it still sounds like crap but doesn't kill my ears.  The better treble of the P9 results in better imaging and a better soundstage but where it really shines is nailing the timbre of instruments.  I'm a musician and my degree was in music education so I can play a little bit of everything, as a result I have a good knowledge of what most instruments should sound like and am fairly sensitive to headphones not getting that right.  That's where the P9 excels and where something like one of my favorite headphones the Fidelio X2 fails, as much as I love the overall presentation of that headphone the artificial treble causes some instruments to sound...well...artificial.
 
All the above being said, after going back and reading this entire thread I think what I'm hearing is the same characteristic that others are reporting, but I'm hearing it to a much larger degree.  I'm convinced at this point that the demo was defective and have just ordered the P9 from Amazon to give it a thorough trial in home.  I do hope it's a keeper as I enjoy the larger ear pads and the treble more on that model, if everything else falls into place those two items alone are worth the price increase for me as I could mostly care less about the wireless functionality on the P7, 
 
Side note 1 - The reason I got the wireless model of the P7 is because despite the driver being the same (yes I read that exchange in this thread as well) they do indeed sound different.  I pulled the measurements just now from InnerFidelity to confirm what I was hearing, and even though they are similar there are indeed differences especially in how well controlled the bass is on the wireless model vs the original P7 and the measurements confirm that.  
 
Side note 2 - These headphones don't require it but definitely benefit from better gear driving them.  I've tried them wirelessly, on the wire from the phone, and on the wire from my Chord Mojo.  The difference between wireless and from the phone is small and I think most people would be hard pressed to heard the difference blindfolded, but stepping up to the Mojo is a big step, if I had to put a number on it I'd say it's 20% better.

 

[Sonic Defender]

@PolkManiac, I really agree with you, and I do think that it is simply a matter of acclimating to the P9, assuming you can. I am sure there are going to be people who just don't care for what it does. In the ideal world the P9 would have about a 10% reduction in bass energy. I still remain surprised that despite the bombastic nature of the P9 it doesn't feel that it is congested. Certainly nobody will accuse it of being the last word in clarity, but that's not the P9s' thing anyway so it doesn't need to be that. I also have the Mojo and feel that it is a really nice match with the P9.
 
I think you made a good call, give it a few solid days of head time and see how it shakes out. No harm in trying and if it doesn't do it for you at least you know you gave it a shot. As I said, I think B&W really needs to do a 50mm driver model with larger cups and perhaps reduce the bass a little closer to reference, but not entirely back away from that powerful and unapologetic rich bass. I now am very interested in hearing some good B&W home speakers when that is a possibility for me again. Cheers and really look forward to your impressions.

 

[Kukua]

@PolkManiac
, I really agree with you, and I do think that it is simply a matter of acclimating to the P9, assuming you can. I am sure there are going to be people who just don't care for what it does. In the ideal world the P9 would have about a 10% reduction in bass energy. I still remain surprised that despite the bombastic nature of the P9 it doesn't feel that it is congested. Certainly nobody will accuse it of being the last word in clarity, but that's not the P9s' thing anyway so it doesn't need to be that. I also have the Mojo and feel that it is a really nice match with the P9.

I think you made a good call, give it a few solid days of head time and see how it shakes out. No harm in trying and if it doesn't do it for you at least you know you gave it a shot. As I said, I think B&W really needs to do a 50mm driver model with larger cups and perhaps reduce the bass a little closer to reference, but not entirely back away from that powerful and unapologetic rich bass. I now am very interested in hearing some good B&W home speakers when that is a possibility for me again. Cheers and really look forward to your impressions.

Sonic Defender, as probably the most active contributor to this forum, the term "reference headphones" requires further explanation. Elaborate if you may......Thank you!