[Denkmal]

1) ALAC, FLAC, WAV and AIFF all have the same quality, unless there is a fault in the decoder and are essentially containers (with ALAC and FLAC being compressed in a lossless way). If the encoder and decoder is working as intended then you can make a roundtrip through all the 4 formats and still have the exact same PCM bits (identical end result). What matters with lossless is what is packed inside the file, not the container.

MQA unfortunately is a lossy file and technically the "MQA remastered" version of the master, basically not the same as the original master unless they only mastered in MQA. If not unpacked it will still be "damaged" compared to the original master but with even higher levels of artifacts. Not a fan of MQA, even if my main DAC supports it. Mostly try to steer clear of MQA by buying non-MQA versions and using Qobuz for finding new music. Apple music isn't supported much outside of apple devices (I use roon at home) so it is not an option for me, but lossless through apple music is a great option for those that mostly use apple devices for their music listening.

2) Read it a few places and when connecting the PX8 over USB to a UAC 2.0 device it only shows 24/44.1 and 24/48 as alternatives. Those alternatives are all you get unless you have drivers that open up support for more. The difference between 24/48 and higher res is minimal in my experience as long as the DAC has good filters. The player will typically down sample 24/192 to the highest format supported by the output.

This makes sense, thank you.
I guess my main thought to point #1 was more wether it makes a difference at all to go with lossless ALAC sources if transmitting over bluetooth AAC anyway.

For the PX8 DAC question I really think the resolution is enough. Also I tried with my Hifiman Arya booked up to a friends DAC and couldnt tell the difference anyway.

 

[evhvis]

It has been posted and discussed. Basically the guy deems the PX8 to be "unlistenable" for a variety of reasons. Also he measures it (with different results vs some others I have seen) and concludes that it is a terrible tuning.
So everyone can just go ahead and sell their PX8s now

If a reviewer describes something you enjoy as "unlistenable" then it just means that you should steer clear of their reviews when selecting new gear.

Different measurements doesn't necessarily mean that the measurements are wrong, but there could be many factors that impact the results. If measurements start to differ a lot for the same product then it becomes a question of multiple things:

• is there sample to sample variation?
• in this specific case there is also a question if the 007 version with lots of print on the grill differ from the regular version?
• is the product inconsistent between positioning?
• how much does the ear and ear canal factor into the final sound?
• is it difficult to get a good seal?
• was there errors in the measurement setup?
• did someone cherry pick graphs to make a point?

Headphones and headphone measurements depends on so many factors that it is often difficult to compare results between different measurements unless they are all from the same type of setup. E.g. the harman curve is a preference curve that can only be measured on one specific type of rig and normalizing to the harman curve from a different type of rig will most likely give large measurement errors.

 

[evhvis]

This makes sense, thank you.
I guess my main thought to point #1 was more wether it makes a difference at all to go with lossless ALAC sources if transmitting over bluetooth AAC anyway.

For the PX8 DAC question I really think the resolution is enough. Also I tried with my Hifiman Arya booked up to a friends DAC and couldnt tell the difference anyway.

From the measurements I've seen between AAC file vs bluetooth AAC transmitted showed that Apple has by far the best AAC implementation over bluetooth, but there were frequency differences which implies that even AAC is transcoded which surprised me as I would have expected them to just send the raw file. Parts of the music will be thrown away when encoding to AAC, aptX and other lossy formats so it is an advantage to start with as much information and least amount of artifacts as possible. Lossless to AAC over bluetooth is better in theory, but unsure how much it matters in practice. Over USB it would be a definite yes. Both AAC files and AAC bluetooth share the same encoding principles so my guess is that there is much less impact of an extra round of encoding and possibly not audible or barely audible over bluetooth.

Best way to find out is to take a ripped file and make an AAC version of it, then transfer both the ALAC and AAC version to your phone. Playback both and see if you can notice a difference. If you feel both sound the same then just run with AAC. I sometimes connect a DAC to my phone (mojo2) so I keep everything lossless ALAC on my phone (also have 256 gig version so space is not much of an issue).

 

[Denkmal]

Best way to find out is to take a ripped file and make an AAC version of it, then transfer both the ALAC and AAC version to your phone. Playback both and see if you can notice a difference. If you feel both sound the same then just run with AAC. I sometimes connect a DAC to my phone (mojo2) so I keep everything lossless ALAC on my phone (also have 256 gig version so space is not much of an issue).

I agree that it seems like Apple is ahead of competition with AAC over bluetooth, not strange of course.

I feel like there might be an audible difference between Apple Music lossless and Spotify Ogg Vorbis over bluetooth. There is also a slight volume difference when swithing between so it is hard to blind test without help.

Right now I am quite happy with the wired (USB) sound quality from my iPad and Apple Music’s lossless library.

 

[Jazz1]

Well all, after reluctantly returning the PX8 I figured life is too short, and just ordered another copy, but this time the 007 version. It comes with an Austin Martin right I’m still enjoying the Masters & Dynamics MW75, but the PX8 offers a different sound, and I’m always up for a variety of headphones giving me different sound experiences! Anyone else out there heard both brands/models? I’d love to hear about your experience?

 

[tiestir]

Well all, after reluctantly returning the PX8 I figured life is too short, and just ordered another copy, but this time the 007 version. It comes with an Austin Martin right I’m still enjoying the Masters & Dynamics MW75, but the PX8 offers a different sound, and I’m always up for a variety of headphones giving me different sound experiences! Anyone else out there heard both brands/models? I’d love to hear about your experience?

I actually just put an order in for the MW75 a couple days ago and am anxiously awaiting their delivery. I’m loving my PX8 but am looking forward to what I hope will be a bit more of a “fun” and engaging sound in the 75’s (some boosted sub bass perhaps). Would you mind describing some of the differences you noticed between the two. Thanks!

 

[Revelation Sound]

I've seen lots of discussion regarding the Px8 bass in this thread. I got my Px8 a couple of weeks ago and have been using them quite a lot. I would probably qualify myself as an audiophile, having had a genuine interest for the last 25 years or so. My preference is generally towards a pretty flat frequency response. When it comes to headphones, I have lots of experience with HD 650, HD 600, HD 25-1, Momentum over ear (original wired), AKG K550, ATH-SR5BT. Also experienced various other sets, such as HD 800 (my brother owned these), AirPods Max, AirPods Pro 2, Bathys, H95, Momentum 4. I would of course not characterize all of these as neutral/flat, but I'd say that the HD 650 probably is my overall favorite that I keep coming back to and that's a decently neutral sounding headphone (although definitely lacking in the sub-bass region). Especially if you compare to pretty much any wireless headphone.

Anyway, regarding Px8 bass: I saw someone comment on a frequency response graph for the Px8 and saying that they couldn't believe they would be 6-9 dB above the reference curve. I have no trouble believing that. These headphones are very bass heavy. It's not just a sub bas hump, as it extends into the low mids (~350 Hz) as well. The effect of this is that tracks with lots of bass and lower mid energy sound very thick. I personally listen a lot to rock and metal and the result of this boost is that chugging guitars and bass drums have an overpowering effect on the upper mids and treble. It quite simply sounds like the presentation is skewed and the lower range has an unnaturally high volume.

To me, this effect is quite uncomfortable and fatiguing. I know there are headphones with more bass, so it's of course not the worst offender. [I tried my buddy's XM3 a couple of years ago and sat there in disbelief at the thick, boomy mess...] Still, I would not characterize the Px8 as having a mild bass boost and I think it's important to make that point to prospective buyers.

With all this said, I must say I'm very happy with my Px8. How come? Fortunately, they offer bass and treble controls that work quite well and are stored in the phones and applied to all sources. After having compared them to most of my other headphones as well as the AirPods Max, Bathys, H95 and Momentum 4, I ended up setting the bass to -6 db and the treble to -1 dB. For context, I usually listen in pretty quiet environments with ANC off. At these settings, sound is still warm and the bass level slightly boosted compared to what I'd say is a neutral sound, but I very much like the result. For much of the music I listen to, I'd probably consider them sounding overall better than my HD 650. One area where the HD 650 wins is vocals. They just sound more natural and lifelike. I also easily preferred the Px8 to the H95, as I found the H95, while pretty spacious sounding, had weird/unnatural mids. It was a short listening session, though, so would want a bit more time with those.

Interestingly, my friend also bought the Px8 last week. He compared them to his AirPods Max and AKG K712 and ended up unknowingly setting the bass and treble to the exact same values as I did. He's not really an audiophile, but he does appreciate good sound quality and he thought the bass boost on the Px8 was pretty heavy as well.

The only wireless headphones I tried that could really compete with the Px8 are the Bathys. They clearly have much more space in their presentation, as mentioned here many times. The stock/flat EQ setting on them is much less thick sounding than the Px8 and they overall felt more dynamic in the lower end. I would also consider them to sound more natural with voices. While I think the Bathys have the edge in terms of sound quality, the overall package with the Px8 is great. They sound really good, are not overly big, very comfortable (more so than the Bathys) and look absolutely stunning. Therefore I am quite happy with my choice and will definitely be keeping them for a long time!

I was pretty much content with going with the PX8 until I read this review about the graph and the boosted bass. I have some tinnitus and do not want to have headphones that are fatiguing. The Focal Bathys seem to have a wider sound stage and more balanced. However the PX8 has better quality buttons than the Focal's which are softer and feel cheaper. The PX8 is also a little better with the ANC over the Focals. This maybe partially due to the way the leather lacks the sewing around the foam which the Focal has which may allow more sound to travel outside of your ear. Also the clamp on the PX8 is a little firmer and they turn off the music if you remove the headphones from your ears which Focal does not do. The cans are also not as big as the Focal's and look better on your head. For these reasons I was leaning towards the PX8 over the bigger sound stage of the Focals. However now I am not sure. I have not found a store where I can compare the two

 

[TK33]

I was pretty much content with going with the PX8 until I read this review about the graph and the boosted bass. I have some tinnitus and do not want to have headphones that are fatiguing. The Focal Bathys seem to have a wider sound stage and more balanced. However the PX8 has better quality buttons than the Focal's which are softer and feel cheaper. The PX8 is also a little better with the ANC over the Focals. This maybe partially due to the way the leather lacks the sewing around the foam which the Focal has which may allow more sound to travel outside of your ear. Also the clamp on the PX8 is a little firmer and they turn off the music if you remove the headphones from your ears which Focal does not do. The cans are also not as big as the Focal's and look better on your head. For these reasons I was leaning towards the PX8 over the bigger sound stage of the Focals. However now I am not sure. I have not found a store where I can compare the two

Your profile says you're from NY. If you're ever in the city, I recommend checking out Audio 46. They are great and do in-store demos. It looks like they have both in stock right now. I have always had a good experience with them. Last time I was there, they were all sold out of Px8s but looks like they got a new batch. They mentioned both the B&W Px8s and Bathys have been selling really well.

As for the wear sensor, I personally just leave it off as I find it too sensitive and annoying. If you search this thread, you will see that others have had issues with the wear sensor so I wouldn't let the wear sensor be a deciding factor. Based on the discussion I have seen here, it seems like they are two different sounding but fantastic headphones and you will probably be better off going with one that suits your taste and has the tuning you are looking for (to me that means whatever will let me enjoy my music the most). Unfortunately, I am probably of no help to you since I have never heard the Focals myself.

 

[Denkmal]

I was pretty much content with going with the PX8 until I read this review about the graph and the boosted bass. I have some tinnitus and do not want to have headphones that are fatiguing. The Focal Bathys seem to have a wider sound stage and more balanced. However the PX8 has better quality buttons than the Focal's which are softer and feel cheaper. The PX8 is also a little better with the ANC over the Focals. This maybe partially due to the way the leather lacks the sewing around the foam which the Focal has which may allow more sound to travel outside of your ear. Also the clamp on the PX8 is a little firmer and they turn off the music if you remove the headphones from your ears which Focal does not do. The cans are also not as big as the Focal's and look better on your head. For these reasons I was leaning towards the PX8 over the bigger sound stage of the Focals. However now I am not sure. I have not found a store where I can compare the two

I have both.
I would not worry so much about boosted bass as this can be adjusted with eq to your liking. The Bathys are not exactly flat either even if the are less heavy in the mid bass.
Without eq and to my ears, PX8 might be a tad heavy on bass but super smooth on treble, and Bathys is a little the other way around. I find myself dialing the treble down slightly with Bathys but not with PX8.
They are both excellent headphones but unless you are musically bipolar like me you are likely to prefer one over the other.

 

[Warlax]

I was pretty much content with going with the PX8 until I read this review about the graph and the boosted bass. I have some tinnitus and do not want to have headphones that are fatiguing. The Focal Bathys seem to have a wider sound stage and more balanced. However the PX8 has better quality buttons than the Focal's which are softer and feel cheaper. The PX8 is also a little better with the ANC over the Focals. This maybe partially due to the way the leather lacks the sewing around the foam which the Focal has which may allow more sound to travel outside of your ear. Also the clamp on the PX8 is a little firmer and they turn off the music if you remove the headphones from your ears which Focal does not do. The cans are also not as big as the Focal's and look better on your head. For these reasons I was leaning towards the PX8 over the bigger sound stage of the Focals. However now I am not sure. I have not found a store where I can compare the two

Everyone hears differently, but I will say from my perspective/experience the Px8s are much less fatiguing to me than the Bathys.

I have had some bouts with tinnitus in the past couple years, but my main issue is new daily persistent headaches. Not on the same level as a migraine (usually), but a mid-grade headache that has been unremitting since onset (just north of 8 years now).

Because of my condition I've found myself very sensitive to sibilance/bright sound signatures. For a long time I backed away from the audiophile hobby, before I had an ibasso dx90 + se846 combo that even not being known as an overly bright IEM (quite the opposite!) I still suffered from listening fatigue.

That being said, music is still something I love and can still take me away from the pain and I eventually found the Sony Xm3s that allowed me to enjoy music in a very non-fatiguing package. I recently started to long for that more "active" listening experience in a package that was still convenient and lucky me a couple brand new high end ANC cans were coming out in the near future!

I decided upon the Px8s after a bunch of reading/watching, as we here on head-fi are prone to do lol, and I don't regret it at all. I happen to live locally to a store that allows demos all the way up to the $5000 Focal line and I was able to try the Px7s2, Px8s, and Focal Bathys back to back and that just reinforced my decision.

The Bathys to my ear are everything that people say about them, but for me that extra treble emphasis (and correspondingly less bass) was just not something I could really enjoy for more than 30 minutes. Having the headphones right next to each other also really made me appreciate the build quality of the Px8 too, they just look and feel premium in a way the Bathys or Px7s2 don't. Also, I really hated the headband on the Bathys like What, the Px8s for me won handily in most areas as the total package. The sound stage for the Bathys is definitely wider, but i found myself really loving the more intimate presentation of the Px8s. Lastly, the in app EQ is real easy to tone down the bass if necessary for you.

Anyway, this got a lot longer than I intended, but I saw your health issue and wanted to chime in and offer my own experience for you. Either way you go, I'm sure you'll be happy!

 

[yrstruly]

Everyone hears differently, but I will say from my perspective/experience the Px8s are much less fatiguing to me than the Bathys.

I have had some bouts with tinnitus in the past couple years, but my main issue is new daily persistent headaches. Not on the same level as a migraine (usually), but a mid-grade headache that has been unremitting since onset (just north of 8 years now).

Because of my condition I've found myself very sensitive to sibilance/bright sound signatures. For a long time I backed away from the audiophile hobby, before I had an ibasso dx90 + se846 combo that even not being known as an overly bright IEM (quite the opposite!) I still suffered from listening fatigue.

That being said, music is still something I love and can still take me away from the pain and I eventually found the Sony Xm3s that allowed me to enjoy music in a very non-fatiguing package. I recently started to long for that more "active" listening experience in a package that was still convenient and lucky me a couple brand new high end ANC cans were coming out in the near future!

I decided upon the Px8s after a bunch of reading/watching, as we here on head-fi are prone to do lol, and I don't regret it at all. I happen to live locally to a store that allows demos all the way up to the $5000 Focal line and I was able to try the Px7s2, Px8s, and Focal Bathys back to back and that just reinforced my decision.

The Bathys to my ear are everything that people say about them, but for me that extra treble emphasis (and correspondingly less bass) was just not something I could really enjoy for more than 30 minutes. Having the headphones right next to each other also really made me appreciate the build quality of the Px8 too, they just look and feel premium in a way the Bathys or Px7s2 don't. Also, I really hated the headband on the Bathys like What, the Px8s for me won handily in most areas as the total package. The sound stage for the Bathys is definitely wider, but i found myself really loving the more intimate presentation of the Px8s. Lastly, the in app EQ is real easy to tone down the bass if necessary for you.

Anyway, this got a lot longer than I intended, but I saw your health issue and wanted to chime in and offer my own experience for you. Either way you go, I'm sure you'll be happy!

As a fellow tinnitus sufferer, I also loved the XM3s - they had such a forgiving sound it allowed me to enjoy stuff at high volumes without any fatigue. They were kinda perfect for their use case tbh

 

[Denkmal]

As a fellow tinnitus sufferer, I also loved the XM3s - they had such a forgiving sound it allowed me to enjoy stuff at high volumes without any fatigue. They were kinda perfect for their use case tbh

I dont have tinnitus but I own the XM3 which has been my on and off office and travel headphone for a long time. ANC and comfort is absolutely top notch still today, and sound is… not great for critical listening, but really really forgiving as you say. Easy to just listen to for hours with no fatigue. I will never sell mine.

 

[yrstruly]

I dont have tinnitus but I own the XM3 which has been my on and off office and travel headphone for a long time. ANC and comfort is absolutely top notch still today, and sound is… not great for critical listening, but really really forgiving as you say. Easy to just listen to for hours with no fatigue. I will never sell mine.

Yeah not for critical listening that’s what I mean by perfect for their use case really - it’s for on the go, non-fussy enjoyment of music. I used to use mine in the gym but they finally died on me

 

[scarfacegt]

If you boosted the bass on the px8 with the app,will it stay boosted til you change it? Storage the settings in the headphones? Was curious,because then i can have an little extra bass when watching netflix,and using it with my tv and fiio btra 30 pro bluetooth sender.A little extra bass is always welcome when wachting movies.

 

[Denkmal]

If you boosted the bass on the px8 with the app,will it stay boosted til you change it? Storage the settings in the headphones? Was curious,because then i can have an little extra bass when watching netflix,and using it with my tv and fiio btra 30 pro bluetooth sender.A little extra bass is always welcome when wachting movies.

Yes, settings are saved in the headphone and global for all listening sources.