[Resolve]

ANC and transparency ? And ANC off measures differently ?



If you mean ANC on vs off, then, if the feedback mechanism is inoperative when ANC is turned off (as it is for nearly all ANC headphones), then it should be no surprise that you may experience a difference between the modes.

Yes, the non-active mode does seem to measure differently, but not in the bass.

 

[Denkmal]

Yes, the non-active mode does seem to measure differently, but not in the bass.

Strange. But dont you hear the difference in the low frequencies?
If not I suspect your pair is behaving in a different way than mine because it is not a subtle difference.

 

[MayaTlab]

Yes, the non-active mode does seem to measure differently, but not in the bass.

Interesting. Now this is just me but the rather problematic yoke design limits the range of motion of the earcups, and it's quite susceptible to leakage. I also found the ANC off sound to be a bit more anemic in the bass than the ANC on sound.

 

[Resolve]

Interesting. Now this is just me but the rather problematic yoke design limits the range of motion of the earcups, and it's quite susceptible to leakage. I also found the ANC off sound to be a bit more anemic in the bass than the ANC on sound.

I expect this could be a difference in relative balance, as ANC off has stronger ear gain in general.

 

[Resolve]

For reference, teal is ANC off:

But, this testing is not yet complete. I will do a video on these once I've finished doing all of the measurements, including ANC performance.

 

[MayaTlab]

For reference, teal is ANC off:



But, this testing is not yet complete. I will do a video on these once I've finished doing all of the measurements, including ANC performance.

Interesting ! Same seating as one of the ANC on traces ? It would be nice to try to test them under varying degrees of pad compression with ANC turned off to determine whether or not the feedback system operates in that mode (probably not).

 

[Resolve]

Same seating as one of the ANC on traces ?

Yes, but even just pressing the button could have an effect on the coupling, depending on how sensitive these are. Like with the Bathys, it was extremely difficult to measure because of how sensitive it is to position/coupling, and this may also be similarly challenging. It's also why you have to take multiple seatings on these headphones, because without doing that you don't know if what you're looking at is a representative result. In any case, I'm going to try doing it all in the app, as that would allow for perfect coupling/seating consistency.

 

[angelom]

I think you made your point diplomatically and clearly, and it is a contribution to the discussion. You did not indicate your opinion invalidated anyone else's. I'm not sure why people are triggered by another opinion. It's not like you are raining on anyone's parade here. I don't think this thread is meant to be the Px8 fan club.

Unfortunately, this is true (about your comment of "I don't think this thread is meant to be the Px8 fan club"). I saying this same comment before in this thread. And I see typical patterns here to others threads when one person isn't liking the sound that many liking, that others 'fans' looking for multiple excuses for explaining this.

The reality is that if you're coming from more neutral headphones, the px8 can sounding definitely bass heavy and with uneven, sometimes recessed treble. And this is why I insisting always, in my case, that I need EQ for this headphone, and that the EQ is responding well (not perfect but sufficiently good), and I'm gravitating from the beginning from -3dB in bass to -1.5db and from +2dB to +1.5dB in treble. This is ALWAYS with ANC and transparency off.

I mentioning too that is clear bass lift when ANC or transparency is on and some regular posters here dismissing my comment. Now suddenly is relevant after the FR results of Resolve.

And I saying too that the px8 have more low bass that px7, reaching more deep/low BUT that the treble is better (more linear in the p7w). I still thinking that in factory sound the p7w is more correct (in FR) than px8, but the p7w don't have EQ.

 

[Resolve]

Unfortunately, this is true (about your comment of "I don't think this thread is meant to be the Px8 fan club"). I saying this same comment before in this thread. And I see typical patterns here to others threads when one person isn't liking the sound that many liking, that others 'fans' looking for multiple excuses for explaining this.

The reality is that if you're coming from more neutral headphones, the px8 can sounding definitely bass heavy and with uneven, sometimes recessed treble. And this is why I insisting always, in my case, that I need EQ for this headphone, and that the EQ is responding well (not perfect but sufficiently good), and I'm gravitating from the beginning from -3dB in bass to -1.5db and from +2dB to +1.5dB in treble. This is ALWAYS with ANC and transparency off.

I mentioning too that is clear bass lift when ANC or transparency is on and some regular posters here dismissing my comment. Now suddenly is relevant after the FR results of Resolve.

And I saying too that the px8 has more low bass that px7, reaching more deep/low BUT that the treble is better (more linear in the p7w. I still thinking that in factory sound the p7w is more correct (in FR) than px8, but the p7w don't have EQ.

Yeah it's interesting. I think the brain can get used to a lot. For me the bass is a minor issue, but it's far less of an issue than the low to mid treble harmonics being boosted over the upper treble harmonics. I listen to a lot of jazz and stuff with percussive instruments, and that's really where things sound compressed to me on the PX8.

 

[jthomp72]

Yeah it's interesting. I think the brain can get used to a lot. For me the bass is a minor issue, but it's far less of an issue than the low to mid treble harmonics being boosted over the upper treble harmonics. I listen to a lot of jazz and stuff with percussive instruments, and that's really where things sound compressed to me on the PX8.

That would explain why my Dixieland jazz recordings sound much better on the Bathys than the Px8. Clarinets are an instrument in particular that sounds not great to me on the Px8. Rock music? Slams on the Px8 though.

 

[mainguy]

No, not at all. What I am implying is that if You say.. listen to bass-heavy headphones, when You switch to Focal, AudioTechnica or some other brands You will say, uhhh so off. And vice versa if You listen to say, Final Audio,

This is absolutely true, and I think a really important part of evaluating headphones with some objectivity. The PX8 and Bathys sound different enough that I think anyone more accustomed to either signature will likely find shortcomings in the other.

When my PX8 arrived I was basically between Bathys/Stellia exclusively, and initially I was a bit disappointed. Took a good two days of just listening to the PX8 for them to settle in and for me to appreciate what is a very different signature. For the kind of vocal heavy music I listen to they just shine. Bathys on the other hand immediately impressed me, as they felt like a 'lite' version of what I was used to, similar presentation to the other Focals with a new tuning.

That would explain why my Dixieland jazz recordings sound much better on the Bathys than the Px8. Clarinets are an instrument in particular that sounds not great to me on the Px8. Rock music? Slams on the Px8 though.

For sure. I didn't listen to any jazz, but my impressions of the headphones were pretty genre dependent. I'd take PX8 for rock & vocal heavy tracks. Adele esque vocals on PX8 is divine. And Bathys for electronic music, Bicep and the like.

 

[evhvis]

No, not at all. What I am implying is that if You say.. listen to bass-heavy headphones, when You switch to Focal, AudioTechnica or some other brands You will say, uhhh so off. And vice versa if You listen to say, Final Audio, You will hate bassier headphones. The reviewer from Headphones.com is a long-term Focal fan, so that also implies a certain perspective on sound. PX8 has a consumer-friendly tuning probably. I noticed quite a stir made with my comments. I was wondering if that's my ears, my gear used daily, a pair that was fresh from the box, or a broken unit that gave me that experience. I was quite open with my statements. Also, it could be my lack of love towards that particular tuning, but in a way, that is a bit of simplification I guess in reflection of frequency response. Maybe there are pairs that have some odd tuning?

You are making another assumption. I have bass heavy headphones (denon, b&w), bass light (open back focal, sennheiser, grado). I am not locked into that the headphones must have either or, I am fine with swapping between them and like to have variety. Most headphones are fairly out there with tuning towards either side when compared to speakers. Very few headphones have an even response and are capable of a truly neutral sound on a neutral amp, most are tuned takes on sound and need PEQ if you want a close to neutral sound.

Some people don't like boosted bass and some people don't like anemic sounding headphones which is fine. It might be difficult to understand that others can swap between bass heavy and bass light without issues, but there is a big difference between stating a preference and making an assumption.

 

[angelom]

You are making another assumption. I have bass heavy headphones (denon, b&w), bass light (open back focal, sennheiser, grado). I am not locked into that the headphones must have either or, I am fine with swapping between them and like to have variety. Most headphones are fairly out there with tuning towards either side when compared to speakers. Very few headphones have an even response and are capable of a truly neutral sound on a neutral amp, most are tuned takes on sound and need PEQ if you want a close to neutral sound.

Some people don't like boosted bass and some people don't like anemic sounding headphones which is fine. It might be difficult to understand that others can swap between bass heavy and bass light without issues, but there is a big difference between stating a preference and making an assumption.

I'm agree with the majority of the content of your post, but I think still that you're being little more critical with qba3d than necessary. Anyway...

Is true too that some people only waiting until a FR graph is available for making a public opinion. I see this very frequently too. The need for validation in their opinions.

For me, personally, is never a problem if people liking a (very) bass heavy or warm sound in a headphone or (very) more neutral or 'anaemic' or bright headphone. For me the problem is when a thread is becoming a 'X headphone / earphone' fan club thread, meaning this headphone / earphone is perfect. And this is happening in this thread the majority of the time.

In a perfect world, people must auditioning all headphones they're thinking about buying, but the reality is that this is not possible for many people, so more objective opinions are like gold. In this and many other threads people criticising measurements using multiple excuses (the typical is "measurements aren't everything"). The true thing is that a FR graph (and other graphs) are giving very valuable information for the people that knowing how interpreting them. Otherwise, why have this graphs??!

And about headphones being good for this or that genre but not for this or that others genres, this can be sometimes fallacy too, because even in many genres, you having different types of artists with different tracks using different instruments, types of masters, etc. In rock music you having a very wide variety of bands and singers in different decades (for example Reckoner by Radiohead, Shadowplay by Joy Division or Happiness Is Easy by Talk Talk...not all rock music is Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath or The Rolling Stones).

 

[Resolve]

In a perfect world, people must auditioning all headphones they're thinking about buying, but the reality is that this is not possible for many people, so more objective opinions are like gold. In this and many other threads people criticising measurements using multiple excuses (the typical is "measurements aren't everything"). The true thing is that a FR graph (and other graphs) are giving very valuable information for the people that knowing how interpreting them. Otherwise, why have this graphs??!

Yeah it can be so difficult to get a sense of how something is going to sound, because even something as simple as bass level for the same headphone can be interpreted as "too much" or "bass light" depending on the person. This is why we need some way of predicting that, and the reference point/target is also helpful in this regard.

 

[mainguy]

For me the problem is when a thread is becoming a 'X headphone / earphone' fan club thread, meaning this headphone / earphone is perfect. And this is happening in this thread the majority of the time.

You're absolutely right here. I think I can speak for all the other PX8 owners in the thread and wholeheartedly say it's absolutely perfect. It has better staging than a HD800s, the timbre of a Verite Closed and superior dynamics to even a Focal Clear. It sounds more open than any open back I've heard. And that's only on bluetooth, don't get me started on the wired performance. Absolutely incredible stuff from B&W, ushering us into a new golden age of headphones.