[jwjw]

Been researching for a while, but not only am I confused by frequently contradictory recommendations, but I'm noobish in the sense I'm having trouble knowing what does what.
Hell, I might not even need an upgrade on my current X-fi Xtreme Audio - however after seeing that it couldn't even access audio creation mode, I felt somehow as if I should burn a hole in my pocket and searched for an upgrade.
Setup:
X-Fi Xtreme Audio
Grado HF-2
(Planning on a) Little Dot 1+
 
95% of my listening is at the computer, I do play quite a few games but personally, as long as their sound is supported minimally, I'd be happy - all about the music!
 
After somewhat spontaneously splashing out on the HF-2, I plan to get the LD1+ for affordable synergy...
From this point on I'm confused about what I should be sticking in my computer.
 
Since I have no need for a built-in amp, should I want a minimalist card like the E-MU 0404 PCI?
Might be stupid, but would a plain DAC (e.g. Bantam) work, without a dedicated soundcard?
Would a better dedicated soundcard be better, e.g. Auzentech/Xonar?
Would running 2 cards simultaneously be possible? E.g one for music, one for games?
Finally - worth improving this DAC step at all?
 
 
 
Hopefully my post isn't confusing, I typically mess myself up whenever writing like this, never know how it'll turn out to people with fresh eyes, however thanks in advance as usual!

 

[ROBSCIX]

You card is a weak link so far...

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwjw /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Since I have no need for a built-in amp, should I want a minimalist card like the E-MU 0404 PCI?
Might be stupid, but would a plain DAC (e.g. Bantam) work, without a dedicated soundcard?
Would a better dedicated soundcard be better, e.g. Auzentech/Xonar?
Finally - worth improving this DAC step at all?
Would running 2 cards simultaneously be possible? E.g one for music, one for games?
 
 
Hopefully my post isn't confusing, I typically mess myself up whenever writing like this, never know how it'll turn out to people with fresh eyes, however thanks in advance as usual!

A minimalist card might do you well, just using it's line-out to an amp.
 
A plain DAC would do just as well.  Something like the uDAC, Audinst HUD-MX1, or Musiland 02 USD would do you well here, and might be superior to a little sound card.  These devices work independent of any other sound device, so don't think you have to have both.
 
A dedicated and nice sound card would probably do just as well as the DACs above, but cost more due to implementations of Surround Sound and other technologies they need to license.
 
The DAC step would be your weak point once you have the LD 1+.  It'll improve it, but how much is rather subjective.  I'd recommend buying a unit from a seller that accepts returns within 30 days, then if you don't find the improvement you're looking for, you can return it.
 
Yes, you can setup two cards to work together.  The best way to do that would be to set the gaming card as the Windows default sound device, then set the music device inside your music program.  (IE: The output area of Foobar2000)

 

[jwjw]

Thanks, I'll get a minimalist card or external DAC mostly based on price I guess.
 
However, another thing on my mind - if I do go down the route of a basic DAC-chip soundcard, would the 0404 be my best bet? Its really the only thing I've seen.
Also, I'm (probably unreasonably) wary of external DACs, gives me the impression that I'm paying for unecessary frills i.e. casing, sometimes ampage, and frequently mixing tools.
Would that be no worry whatsoever? ... I guess I could rephrase that - which has more bang for buck, external DAC or an internal card?

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Thanks, I'll get a minimalist card or external DAC mostly based on price I guess.
 
However, another thing on my mind - if I do go down the route of a basic DAC-chip soundcard, would the 0404 be my best bet? Its really the only thing I've seen.
Also, I'm (probably unreasonably) wary of external DACs, gives me the impression that I'm paying for unecessary frills i.e. casing, sometimes ampage, and frequently mixing tools.
Would that be no worry whatsoever? ... I guess I could rephrase that - which has more bang for buck, external DAC or an internal card?

As long as you stick with a card with minimal features (0404 or something like the M-Audio 2496), they have about the same price point.  You actually pay more for less in an internal card more often, seeing as they need power filtering, EMI shielding, sometimes software development, and etc.  Where as a little USB device is plug and play, and comes with bus-power, wallwart powered, or an internal PSU (the 3-conductor cables).
 
You really shouldn't worry about paying for extra frills.  Dedicated DACs in the low-end price range usually contain amps because that's the sector they fill.  That said, the amp sections are usually 'tack-on' CMOY type things (a popular, super-cheap DIY amp) that add little to the cost.  A good example of this is the uDAC.  The DAC inside of it is pretty good, but the amp section is known to have it's flaws.  Thus, you can use the uDAC as an all in one unit for the time being, then switch to it feeding a real amp when you have the time.  The same goes for most combo units in that price range.
 
If you want a top of the bracket, DAC-Only unit, you should look into the Gamma1 or Gamma2.  They are DIY projects, but they are sometimes for sale, and can be built to order by several community members.  (There's a link on the Gamma1 and 2 pages, if I do recall.)

 

[transient orca]

Here is one one sale right now.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496410/fs-amb-1-gamma-1

 

[jwjw]

Was quiet for a while, as I killed by budget - however in the interests of the near-future, I'm still not sure about whittling down the last few choices.
 
Should of mentioned before I was in UK, which might affect the prices - also, I will only be purchasing used goods, just me being cheap.
 
So... :
Gamma 1
0404 PCI
Alien DAC/Bantam DAC
'Noodle' DAC (Read/heard about it off only a couple people)
 
Still haven't overlooked the uDAC, but isn't NuForce more expensive over here in UK, and still, despite what you said, I feel its compactness kills the bang-for-buck, from my impressions of pics is actually looks portably-sized.
 
Sorry if I'm still being vague about my requirements, each of those DACs seem good for different people - again I'd just be wanting a compromise of bang-for-buck and max sound quality - with minimalist functionality (unless frills do not impede on the price whatsoever)
 
 
EDIT : Would an option be to buy the DIY kits/Finished product like the Gamma 2 (for example), and remove the optical/SPDIF and ABC settings at a saving?

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Was quiet for a while, as I killed by budget - however in the interests of the near-future, I'm still not sure about whittling down the last few choices.
 
Should of mentioned before I was in UK, which might affect the prices - also, I will only be purchasing used goods, just me being cheap.
 
So... :
Gamma 1
0404 PCI
Alien DAC/Bantam DAC
'Noodle' DAC (Read/heard about it off only a couple people)
 
Still haven't overlooked the uDAC, but isn't NuForce more expensive over here in UK, and still, despite what you said, I feel its compactness kills the bang-for-buck, from my impressions of pics is actually looks portably-sized.
 
Sorry if I'm still being vague about my requirements, each of those DACs seem good for different people - again I'd just be wanting a compromise of bang-for-buck and max sound quality - with minimalist functionality (unless frills do not impede on the price whatsoever)
 
 
EDIT : Would an option be to buy the DIY kits/Finished product like the Gamma 2 (for example), and remove the optical/SPDIF and ABC settings at a saving?

Go to the Gamma2 AMB site, and email the builder listed there, and ask about getting a Gamma2 based on a Gamma1 B (Lite) configuration.  Wouldn't save you too much, though.

 

[Neuromantic]

As a general rule just sick with what you've got unless it's giving you problems.  Most people here like upgrading as a hobby, it really doesn't have much to do with "sound quality".

 

[jwjw]

Quote:

As a general rule just sick with what you've got unless it's giving you problems.  Most people here like upgrading as a hobby, it really doesn't have much to do with "sound quality".

 
Might of just put my head back in place, I was just paranoid about the X-Fi being a weak link - I'll probably wait and try getting the cheapest possible upgrade around the end of the year.
 

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

As a general rule just sick with what you've got unless it's giving you problems.  Most people here like upgrading as a hobby, it really doesn't have much to do with "sound quality".

This is, as a rule, untrue.  That's like saying an onboard audio solution is the same as a Lavry DA11.

 

[lxxl]

Quote:

As a general rule just sick with what you've got unless it's giving you problems.  Most people here like upgrading as a hobby, it really doesn't have much to do with "sound quality".

You must be one of those that can't hear the difference between sounds, I am surprised you are on these forums.
 
Back to the OP, Xtreme Audio is pretty much a Live!, so getting a better DAC will be a major improvement for your HF-2. If you are just starting and don't want to spend too much, try to find a Zero DAC/Amp, it's recommending by members here and it's about $150ish, look around on the FS forums.

 

[jwjw]

Quote:

 
Back to the OP, Xtreme Audio is pretty much a Live!, so getting a better DAC will be a major improvement for your HF-2. If you are just starting and don't want to spend too much, try to find a Zero DAC/Amp, it's recommending by members here and it's about $150ish, look around on the FS forums.

Indeed, I agreed with the first part at least of Neuro's post at least - so I'm still going to go for my DAC later in the year (I'd expect my choices to be the same ~4 months down the line).
 
I've heard Zeros as both great... and as notorious as Singlepower though so - I'm pretty unsure about them.
Other than that my choice would be based on the price I can get it for used - they all have their pros and cons.