Blackgate coupling capacitors, Yay or Nay?

[Rob N]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 Well as cathode caps they are good but there are other areas where their use would be much more noticable. As cathode caps, because of the type needed, they should not be very expensive. What is used for coupling caps? John

PIO are used for coupling,Jensen,Audionote etc.

 

[jamato8]

Are they used as bypass for larger caps? What value is used?

John

 

[Tomcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 I have used many different types of BG's over the years in many, many different applications. The one area that the OS Con might be as good or slightly better is in the digital area but in all areas the BG's have no competition. But, I like many others have pulled them when I heard no difference or even a degraded sound until I realized how long they take to form/break-in. I have noticed changes up to the 500 hour mark and beyond.

Just to add to John's impressions: it's not just 500 hours of break-in, Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note, probably the most outspoken advocate of Black Gate capacitors, has stated time and again that they need 500 to 1000 hours of warm-up.

I have an Audio Note CD3.1x CDP, and I try to never switch it off. If it has been cold and I switch it on, I always ask myself why I paid the additional 1000 Euros to get the Black Gate-equipped CD3.1x instead of the ordinary CD2.1x without Black Gates. It's only 300 or 400 hours later, that the CD3.1x really starts to sing. I can't say for sure whether there is improvement beyond that point, but I can attest to the fact that the first week is pretty mediocre.

Just something to keep in mind when using Black Gates.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 Are they used as bypass for larger caps? What value is used?

For the coupling caps, IIRC it's about 0.47 uf at above 400v. At the outputs, capacitor coupling is about 400 or so uf (also high voltage, but I forget exactly how much).

Black Gates at the outputs are terrible. It's not a question of tone, there was some serious distortion at lower volume levels than with other caps, even after burn-in. it's possible that it's the configuration I used (two section cap with the sections paralleled to get to correct uf for each channel). I tried them in one amp, and later pulled them for something that would hold together at higher volumes (eventually settled on NOS Spragues).

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat Just to add to John's impressions: it's not just 500 hours of break-in, Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note, probably the most outspoken advocate of Black Gate capacitors, has stated time and again that they need 500 to 1000 hours of warm-up. I have an Audio Note CD3.1x CDP, and I try to never switch it off. If it has been cold and I switch it on, I always ask myself why I paid the additional 1000 Euros to get the Black Gate-equipped CD3.1x instead of the ordinary CD2.1x without Black Gates. It's only 300 or 400 hours later, that the CD3.1x really starts to sing. I can't say for sure whether there is improvement beyond that point, but I can attest to the fact that the first week is pretty mediocre. Just something to keep in mind when using Black Gates.

If it's truly 500-1000 hours of warm up, then why get them? Personally ,I don't even know if I'll keep the amp on (much less the whole system) on for that long of a time. And that's just warm up... If that's true then that's just nuts...

 

[Finch&Music]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch For the coupling caps, IIRC it's about 0.47 uf at above 400v. At the outputs, capacitor coupling is about 400 or so uf (also high voltage, but I forget exactly how much). Black Gates at the outputs are terrible. It's not a question of tone, there was some serious distortion at lower volume levels than with other caps, even after burn-in. it's possible that it's the configuration I used (two section cap with the sections paralleled to get to correct uf for each channel). I tried them in one amp, and later pulled them for something that would hold together at higher volumes (eventually settled on NOS Spragues).

I interpreted your statement 'Black Gates at the outputs are terrible' as 'they are not appropriate/terrible in coupling positions in the signalpath'.

Well, when I am wrong I hope you will reply.

If I am right, what other higher voltage coupling caps (160V or higher) that are in the signalpath in tubeamps are in your or others view advisable?

That is interesting because BG's - as usual - brings confusing and various comment with them. Not everyone that has used them in reality is always enthousiastic about their sonic behaviour in coupling positions.

It is not an interesting path in going to use BG's (at their extreme costs!) and than expierence a long waiting time for any sonic quality, irrespective of setting of the volume knob. A couplingcap should in my opinion let through all the relevant music at any volume setting. Otherwise there is something missing in the overall component blending or with the specific couplingcap in the signal path.

I for myself are still searching for an alternative couplingcap in a Antique Sound Lab MkIII (in OTL form). Now there is a rather common cap in the signal path whith no special quality (not bad, do not misunderstand me, but within the price range it is acceptable, but it must be possible to do it better, at some cost.) That means a quality cap of at least 100 mf at 160v or higher. The possible (non polar) Bg's are really expensive and only in non polar form obtainable. Other choices are Panasonic or Nichicon low impedance/long live (but regretteble not at the Pan FM specs!).

After much searching on headfi and elsewhere I have still not found a cost effective choice that respects sonic requirements of better quality than the standard couplingcap. For me it looks like the BG's (I have not yet tried them out in my asl amp!) are not yet my 'cup of tea', especially caused by their costs and requirements for severly burn in and later for 'fire up-time' when not permanently coupled to supply voltage.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finch&Music I interpreted your statement 'Black Gates at the outputs are terrible' as 'they are not appropriate/terrible in coupling positions in the signalpath'.

That's not quite what I said. I'll speculate here. My own belief is that the issue at the outputs was one of impedance, although at least from the specs it shouldn't be. It sounded as though the Black Gates raised the output impedance to the point where the amp had trouble providing current, particularly into the R10 (forgot that part before). This resulted in unacceptable distortion, so I ditched the Black Gates at the outputs, and all was well. The Sony R10 is a current hog, and anything that reduces current at the output is not going to make that headphone happy.