Biggest head scratcher
Mar 28, 2023 at 7:06 AM Post #151 of 294
But what about The Monkees ?
You mean the band with Neil Diamond as the song writer/guitarist, session musicians playing bass, electric guitars, drums and organ with The Monkeys singing along? šŸ˜
Probably because of the silver cables in their studio.
Not sure they had any cables at all, the real cables were in the studio where the real musicians were recording? :)

G
 
Mar 28, 2023 at 7:21 AM Post #153 of 294
All I know is that my adopted half-sister Marcia thought that Davy Jones was the dreamiest.
Milli Vanillli was also apparently quite ā€œdreamyā€ and another great ā€œreal bandā€. šŸ˜‰

G
 
Mar 28, 2023 at 2:53 PM Post #155 of 294
All I know is that my adopted half-sister Marcia thought that Davy Jones was the dreamiest.

Does that mean you're Greg, Pete, or Bobby? I don't remember that Mike had a son named Joaquin :p
 
Mar 28, 2023 at 6:44 PM Post #156 of 294
Does that mean you're Greg, Pete, or Bobby? I don't remember that Mike had a son named Joaquin :p
Mike had a secret life in Tijuana that they didn't talk about on the show :wink:

If I may bring us back around to the intent of this thread . . .

How about the whole AKM vs ESS DAC chip debate ? I've seen folks categorically reject a new device because they dont like the one or the other. I forget which one is supposed to be "warm and musical" vs "dry and analytical" because of course thats totally a thing that the choice of DAC chip can affect. And none of these debates ever focus on the most important part: Which DAC chip do The Monkees prefer ?
 
Mar 28, 2023 at 7:30 PM Post #157 of 294
Wow! We went from Cage and Ives to the Monkees awful fast!

Iā€™m not opposed to more recent classical music. I can judge music as music. I just resist when they try to replace music with ideas. An example is Ligetti. He did some amazing things, but metronomes werenā€™t a part of that part of his output. And I donā€™t consider a tomato soup label as a worthwhile composition for a painting. I like expressive art, not narcissistic navel gazing.
 
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Mar 29, 2023 at 2:51 AM Post #158 of 294
Mike had a secret life in Tijuana that they didn't talk about on the show :wink:

Fair enough. Somebody probably told me that before but it was drowned out by the Mariachi bands and that 2nd bottle of tequila the bartender warned me against.

If I may bring us back around to the intent of this thread . . .

But then:


And none of these debates ever focus on the most important part: Which DAC chip do The Monkees prefer ?

So I would have to say no, you may not bring us back around unless it is for a 3rd round :D

BTW ESS: clinical, AKM: musical

But that is just for people who listen right off the chip. Most of the DACs based on those chips can vary :wink:
 
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Mar 29, 2023 at 4:20 AM Post #159 of 294
I can judge music as music. I just resist when they try to replace music with ideas. An example is Ligetti.
Sure and there are numerous other examples such as Beethoven, Ives, Stravinsky and countless others, even arguably Bach.

Sure, you are perfectly entitled to judge music for yourself and decide when you personally feel that music has been replaced (by ideas) but of course that ONLY defines your personal preferences, it does NOT define music itself. Your assertions were false, regardless of your personal preferences!
BTW ESS: clinical, AKM: musical
BTW, they are both just DAC chips. They do not have neural networks or AI and are therefore incapable of being either clinical or musical. The only thing theyā€™re capable of being is accurate/inaccurate and both are accurate beyond the thresholds of audibility, as indeed all 16bit or greater audio DAC chips have been for 3 decades or so.

G
 
Mar 29, 2023 at 4:27 AM Post #160 of 294
Sure, you are perfectly entitled to judge music for yourself and decide when you personally feel that music has been replaced (by ideas) but of course that ONLY defines your personal preferences, it does NOT define music itself. Your assertions were false, regardless of your personal preferences!

I judge by the fundamental principles of aesthetics. I admire works that use the fundamentals expressively, and I'm not impressed by reductivism. Boiling something down to nothing isn't what I'm looking for. As an example to show what I'm saying, please hum 4'33''. Don't reply to this post until you've actually done it. Don't cheat now!
 
Mar 29, 2023 at 4:35 AM Post #161 of 294
I thought Neil only wrote a few songs like "I'm a Believer"... he actually composed/played/recorded the music as well? If so, that is amazing.
Neil did only write a few songs (but not only the lyrics) and he did also play on some of them, thatā€™s the point. Other songs were written by other song writers and were played by different musicians. The Monkees wasnā€™t really a band, it was just various different session musicians and writers/composers whose recordings were marketed as The Monkees but typically only included some of the supposed members and occasionally none at all.

G
 
Mar 29, 2023 at 5:22 AM Post #162 of 294
The Monkees performed their own music as a band on record starting with the third album. Michael Nesmeth was a perfectly good California style country/folk musician. He wrote Different Drum, which was Linda Ronstadt's breakthrough hit, and wrote songs that were recorded by the Butterfield Blues Band and the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. (One of which was covered by Run DMC!) He contributed songs to all of the Monkees' albums from the third one on. Unlike the other three, he considered himself a musician first, not an actor.

The Monkees are OK. They were created as a fraud, but they fought their way past that, mostly because of the musical talent and refusal to submit to Don Kirshner by Nesmith.
 
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Mar 29, 2023 at 5:44 AM Post #163 of 294
I judge by the fundamental principles of aesthetics.
Clearly that is FALSE! The fundamental principle of aesthetic judgement refers to the sensory contemplation or appreciation of something and artistic judgement refers to the recognition, appreciation or criticism of art or an art work. The ā€œfundamental principles of aestheticsā€ is NOT whether bigshot is able to contemplate or appreciate it. You are judging by your personal preferences and NOT by the fundamental principles of aesthetics!
I admire works that use the fundamentals expressively, and I'm not impressed by reductivism. Boiling something down to nothing isn't what I'm looking for.
Firstly, you can ā€œlook forā€ and ā€œadmireā€ whatever you choose but obviously that does not define either the fundamental principles of aesthetics nor what is art/music.
And secondly, if ā€œboiling something down to nothing isnā€™t what youā€™re looking forā€, then why arenā€™t you looking for 4ā€™33ā€? As not boiling down to nothing is one of the main points of the whole piece!
As an example to show what I'm saying, please hum 4'33''.
That is exactly why what youā€™re saying is false! Neither the fundamental principles of aesthetics nor of music is defined by whether or someone can hum it or not. And, you are contradicting yourself, you said you liked Ives but unless youā€™ve somehow taught yourself to hum tone clusters and different tunes simultaneously then you canā€™t hum Ives.
Don't reply to this post until you've actually done it.
I did try to hum birdsong, leaves rustling and audience noise but I couldnā€™t do any of them well and I certainly couldnā€™t do all of them at the same time. But then I canā€™t hum most of Bachā€™s Cello Suites, the Rites of Spring, Beethovenā€™s Moonlight Sonata and countless other great works. So therefore none of them are music or fulfil the fundamental principles of aesthetics? Itā€™s nonsense bigshot!

G
 
Mar 29, 2023 at 5:47 AM Post #164 of 294
You don't get why I'm asking you to hum 4'33".Trust me. I have a point to make. Go ahead and hum it yourself before replying. You don't have to be a virtuoso. You don't have to perform it publicly. We'll call it a rehearsal if you want. It's OK if you don't do a great job of it. I won't respond again on this until you do, except to ask you if you've done it yet!
 
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Mar 29, 2023 at 6:12 AM Post #165 of 294
You don't get why I'm asking you to hum 4'33". Go ahead and perform it yourself before replying.
Iā€™ve already told you Iā€™ve tried to hum it myself, as I have Bach Cello Suites and many others (and failed) but this is a ridiculously fallacious argument even by your standards! Are you seriously suggesting that my ability to hum some piece of music defines what is and is not music?

Clearly this is utter nonsense, as is your instruction not to reply until Iā€™ve fulfilled your ridiculous task. Who do you think you are?

I won't respond again on this until you do, except to ask you if you've done it yet!
Youā€™re loosing it bigshot, all the ridiculous audiophile nonsense you spend your time fighting here, yet here you are not only with just as a ridiculous argument but stamping your your little feet demanding I fulfil your ludicrous instructions.

For your own benefit, please fulfil your promise and do not ā€œrespond againā€!

G
 

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