[AudioThief]

I have the HD650 (returning this week) and its probably the most boring head phones I have listened to. If you like a blast of warm at the bottom end with no thump, HD650 is perfect. Even EQing did not help. I wanted to like them due to price but I simply cannot. I wouldn't even pay $100 for them, never mind $200. Also HD650 apply more pressure on my head than the Elears. HD800s are the most comfortable headphones I've worn followed by the DT880s.

Elears are also more detailed in my listening experience. Not the best for orchestral instrumental, but I still can hear when there is a little too much spit in a Trumpet with the Elears whereas with the HD650, I'll have to strain to hear it. HD650 isn't good for orchestral either since they both share similar soundstages. The only thing I can see the HD650 being good for is slow Jazz (for the warm bottom and pronounced mids), but I do not enjoy listening to slow Jazz. I have no idea why people compare Elears to HD650s. They do not sound anything alike besides the soundstage.

I wanted to try the DT1990 but I don't think I can stand Beyer's sibilance anymore. From what I read, the DT1990 and Amiron did not improve this at all.

Boring is a bad thing for a headphone. Especially when you feel that way after spending 700 bucks on it.

I had Elear twice myself. The first time I didn't like it. I wanted to give it another chance from what I was reading online, so I demoed it again at home and felt the same exact way. I listen to a lot of EDM and electronic music and people seem to say these are good there, but they did not do it for me.

Certaintly it is a bad thing if your conclusion is that it is boring. What I meant is just that something that is boring first listen might not mean its actually boring. Should've phrased my sentence better.

Your point about how Elears didn't fit to EDM and electronic is a perfect segue for me as this is one of my main gripe with the online headphone community - I think there is way too little focus on music genres - especially contemporary music like EDM, bass music etc - stuff made with big bass in mind. And further than that, sub bass vs mid bass and the important difference. I think by design a headphone with "perfect" bass for EDM cannot possibly be perfect for other genres. When I got my TH 900 I was kind of gambling on it either being a fantastic basshead phone or a fantastic reference grade headphone (I'd heard both about them). Turned out they were fantastic reference grade headphones, but certaintly not somthing I would say is "perfect" for EDM/Bass music. I don't like EQing - I know the TH 900 responds very well to EQ, but I do not like EQ'ing or messing with the stock product. I'm actually looking at the JVC Victor HP-DX1000 for this exact purpose - I am hoping they are more boosted in the midbass area and have an overall more bassy presentation in stock form. I also am looking at them for a pair of more relaxed headphones (TH900 are very aggressive and engaging, but I wouldn't call them relaxing).

Now, I don't view myself as a basshead... But if I'm gonna listen to bass music, it better have some awesome bass. The TH900, which is viewed as fantastic headphones for bass, is far too close to neutral in its bass response to be considered bass-monsters. This of course makes them fantastic for essentially all other genres, but at the cost of not being *the best* at bass-centric music. Now imagine some poor sap getting HD600s or something as allrounders, how disappointed he will be when he puts on some deep rumbling UK bass music LOL

 

[TWerk]

I absolutely agree with what you said above and I have owned the TH900 myself several times. I think the TH900 can be too "reference" for EDM music where the goal is fun and punchy. I too wish there was more info for headphones in relation to EDM and contemporary stuff since that is 90% of my listening. Therefore, bass is very important to me and it's not exactly easy to find headphones that can do it really well. I really like the ultrasone sound signature for edm, own two of them and they are suited very well for that IMO. My Performance 880 is especially tight, taut and punchy.

Your distinction between the punch and the sub bass rumble is important. The TH900 have the sub bass thing down but they do lack the mid and upper bass slam IMO. Myself I appreciate both the mid bass and sub bass, bur care more about the mid bass punch than the rumble. The DX1000 is interesting because they give a nice punch and also a good low end rumble. They are bass-head cans no doubt, it is strong but the mids are also nice and treble has sparkle. They are really great EDM cans IMO and can do electro like you are in a club. The large soundstage adds to it even more. They don't have gobs of resolution but they are just fun, especially for that UKF stuff you mention.

But yeah, they have a lot more bass than the TH900.

 

[TSAVJason]

Great thread. Have been thinking about the Focal Elear. Thanks guys. I will stick with Mr. Speakers for my high priced cans. They truly are a delight.

MrSpeakers are great but your opinion should be based on hearing your options not someone else's opinion. Remember you're not trying to please or satisfy anyone but yourself.

 

[TSAVJason]

HD800 for me. As I entered this crazy world of hi-end headphones they seemed to be the headphone I read about most that was unanimously considered totl. By the time I had a chance to try them out I had already heard a number of other totl options, and the HD800 was utterly disappointing to me with the exception of the classical genre. Did not like the look either and aside from being quite comfortable the build quality (mostly materials) left me unimpressed.

On another note, I had always been curious about the Elear. This thread has dampened that curiosity a bit. Interesting reading the dislike for it.

Name a headphone any headphone and you'll find a post or many that hates it.

 

[AudioThief]

I absolutely agree with what you said above and I have owned the TH900 myself several times. I think the TH900 can be too "reference" for EDM music where the goal is fun and punchy. I too wish there was more info for headphones in relation to EDM and contemporary stuff since that is 90% of my listening. Therefore, bass is very important to me and it's not exactly easy to find headphones that can do it really well. I really like the ultrasone sound signature for edm, own two of them and they are suited very well for that IMO. My Performance 880 is especially tight, taut and punchy.

Your distinction between the punch and the sub bass rumble is important. The TH900 have the sub bass thing down but they do lack the mid and upper bass slam IMO. Myself I appreciate both the mid bass and sub bass, bur care more about the mid bass punch than the rumble. The DX1000 is interesting because they give a nice punch and also a good low end rumble. They are bass-head cans no doubt, it is strong but the mids are also nice and treble has sparkle. They are really great EDM cans IMO and can do electro like you are in a club. The large soundstage adds to it even more. They don't have gobs of resolution but they are just fun, especially for that UKF stuff you mention.

But yeah, they have a lot more bass than the TH900.

Yeah basically what I'm looking for in the hpdx1k is more forward mids, relaxing sound sig and big bass for when I just want some god damn air displacement.

I feel that a lot of people looking for bass cans AND a "high end" sound are either fooled into purchasing cans that are actually extremely bass light, or told to get something ala Fidelio X2 (not enough bass at all still). So its pretty damn hard to find good bass cans. And thats just for bass. Now imagine all the other genres out there and how hard it is to pinpoint the correct headphone lol

 

[TSAVJason]

Well.. I sort of agree.

I agree in the sense that if you get a summit-fi performing pair of headphones for a mid-fi price, you've gotten fantastic value. But I don't agree that this is an argument for why mid-fi is where the value is at (since you can find "bargains" at essentially any price point), nor do I agree with the notion that mid-fi can be called "value" at all.

Someone on this forum has a really nice quote which is something like "audio is all subtle changes and none of it is worth it". It basically just sums it all up. The truth is that for any normal, non obsessed human being, the changes between headphones are so laughably subtle and CERTAINTLY not worth hundreds of dollars - so talking about value in terms of headphones worth more than 50$ is a bit silly imo - most entry level headphones gives you the most vital information on a track. Now, for us obsessed people.. There are different tiers I guess. Some think entry level to mid fi is the biggest jump in quality. Others, like me for instance, felt the jump from mid fi to summit fi was biggest. In terms of real world differences for the non obsessed, we are both wrong. In terms of difference for our own ears, we are both right.

So I think that talking about "value" and "point of diminishing returns" is a bit silly. Okay, if I start spending thousands of dollars on usb cables I'm probably well beyond the point of dimishing returns - but as long as we are talking about headphones, such a thing doesn't really exist. This is head fi, so I trust most people here understand that its stupid trying to quantify quality changes by looking at FR graphs or dumb stuff like that when talking about AUDIO. What we do know is that there exist "reasonably" priced equipment that gets everything on the recording delivered to you in a spectacular soundstage (HD800), and which we can easily call the "technical pinnacle". But audio enjoyment or the quality of audio reproduction doesn't work like this at all. I'm not saying that the sunken cost fallacy etc isn't a major factor in a lot of peoples opinions when it comes to audio, but what I'm saying is, value is a bit silly of a term when it comes to audio. If that makes sense.

So just like the headphones themselves this is a VERY subjective statement. This is definitely an individual choice in both affordability and performance.

 

[AudioThief]

So just like the headphones themselves this is a VERY subjective statement. This is definitely an individual choice in both affordability and performance.

I think there is objective truth to my statements of value being relative I'm not really willing to debate the part about science when it comes to audio, it never leads anywhere. But safe to say, I can't prove anything of what I said so I can't claim it to be objective truths. I just think there is

 

[TWerk]

Yeah basically what I'm looking for in the hpdx1k is more forward mids, relaxing sound sig and big bass for when I just want some god damn air displacement.

I feel that a lot of people looking for bass cans AND a "high end" sound are either fooled into purchasing cans that are actually extremely bass light, or told to get something ala Fidelio X2 (not enough bass at all still). So its pretty damn hard to find good bass cans. And thats just for bass. Now imagine all the other genres out there and how hard it is to pinpoint the correct headphone lol

If you wanna demo my DX1000 a week or two you can if you're in the states. See if it's what you like, I think it matches your description above really well in terms of relaxing, forward vocals and mids, and some big booty bass. That's exactly what it is actually.

 

[AudioThief]

If you wanna demo my DX1000 a week or two you can if you're in the states. See if it's what you like, I think it matches your description above really well in terms of relaxing, forward vocals and mids, and some big booty bass. That's exactly what it is actually.

I live in Norway i.e other side of the world, but luckily a local guy is selling one for like 400$ so I'm just gonna quickly demo it and if it doesn't give me aids on first listen I'm buying it.

 

[TWerk]

Please PM me what you think of it, if you get it.

That is a really solid price for a pair of them.

 

[Feilong4]

If you wanna demo my DX1000 a week or two you can if you're in the states. See if it's what you like, I think it matches your description above really well in terms of relaxing, forward vocals and mids, and some big booty bass. That's exactly what it is actually.

Don't wanna piggyback off of AudioThief, but I have been interested in the DX1000 for a while. I would love to demo yours if that's possible

I'm in the US and have trader feedback here on Head-Fi.

 

[Svatopluk]

I absolutely agree with what you said above and I have owned the TH900 myself several times. I think the TH900 can be too "reference" for EDM music where the goal is fun and punchy. I too wish there was more info for headphones in relation to EDM and contemporary stuff since that is 90% of my listening. Therefore, bass is very important to me and it's not exactly easy to find headphones that can do it really well. I really like the ultrasone sound signature for edm, own two of them and they are suited very well for that IMO. My Performance 880 is especially tight, taut and punchy.

Your distinction between the punch and the sub bass rumble is important. The TH900 have the sub bass thing down but they do lack the mid and upper bass slam IMO. Myself I appreciate both the mid bass and sub bass, bur care more about the mid bass punch than the rumble. The DX1000 is interesting because they give a nice punch and also a good low end rumble. They are bass-head cans no doubt, it is strong but the mids are also nice and treble has sparkle. They are really great EDM cans IMO and can do electro like you are in a club. The large soundstage adds to it even more. They don't have gobs of resolution but they are just fun, especially for that UKF stuff you mention.

But yeah, they have a lot more bass than the TH900.

Just wondering, if you have any experience with the MDR-Z7 or Z1R could you share your opinion.

 

[TWerk]

Just wondering, if you have any experience with the MDR-Z7 or Z1R could you share your opinion.

Sorry neither of them.

 

[TWerk]

Don't wanna piggyback off of AudioThief, but I have been interested in the DX1000 for a while. I would love to demo yours if that's possible

I'm in the US and have trader feedback here on Head-Fi.

Yeah we can probably make it happen. I'll pm you.

 

[AudioThief]

Please PM me what you think of it, if you get it.

That is a really solid price for a pair of them.

I'll do that! After actually converting currencies, its 495$. So not as good price as I first said. However, since its local and I don't have to deal with shipping or waiting, I can just grab it and start enjoying it right away, I still think its a good deal.