[llysender]

Too smooth for vocals..

Que...?

Both too smooth yet too forward for vocals making vocals sound lacking breath/reverb,fine vocal grit and fine intonation are lost on the HD600.

 

[Beagle]

Both too smooth yet too forward for vocals making vocals sound lacking breath/reverb,fine vocal grit and fine intonation are lost on the HD600.

It’s all there, just not exaggerated. If you want exaggerated (or can’t hear it) there are many other options.

 

[Jermo K]

I'll be contrarian here (and I'm an Eric fan, love the video, and meeting you in person!) Companies like Hifiman, Audeze, and Dan Clark Audio are making great e-stats. In fact, I'd go so far to say that the Hifiman Shangri-La Sr are absolutely world class e-stats. The HE-1 is a statement class headphone system, and I'll likely buy a set. However, surely Sennheiser can compete in the non-statement level space while still putting out an amazing e-stat headphone.

Hi, thanks for your confidence in our team. I believe we'll address this topic in a later episode, but I'm happy to give some background why it's unfortunately not so trivial for us:
1. Burden of scale: Sennheiser/sonova consumer hearing is many times larger than practically all our competitors in the audiophile space. This also has the disadvantage that our requirements towards manufacturing are very different. Any product or transducer development needs to be set up in a way that makes it scalable and has a high yield that satisfies the expectation of modern manufacturing experts. Most of our efforts in development usually go into improving manufacturing consistency & yield. This structure is simply not a good fit for headphones that only sells a few thousand times a year.
2. Logistics: During the separation of Sennheiser Pro and Consumer, Pro Sennheiser (obviously) kept the manufacturing lines for condenser microphone capsules, where our electrostatic transducers are also assembled. That means that at the moment we don't have manufacturing capacities for electrostatic transducers available. This includes for instance sputtering devices to coat the diaphragm accurately and a clean room for assembly. From a business perspective, building up an entire manufacturing line for a low quantity product line has a very hard time competing with business cases with less up-front capital expenditure. I know that doesn't sound like a sexy reason, but jobs and peoples livelihoods depend on our growth trajectory, so I take it seriously.
3. Perfect is the enemy of better: My personal ambition for a new Sennheiser electrostatic headphone would be to revive the performance of the old HE 90, which to me are the best headphones ever developed. The cost of the glass stators in the old orpheus have increased significantly from 30 years ago. The cost factor between cheap metal stators and the original ones is over 100, and the headphone cost alone would be in the price region of the HE 1, which obviously defeats the purpose. I wish we find an alternative that offers equal stiffness and acoustic transparency, but it doesn't look like it at the moment.

I can assure you that practically every experienced acoustics engineer at the company wishes dearly for that product to come to life. I can't promise you anything, except that we'll do our best to make it happen somehow.

 

[llysender]

It’s all there, just not exaggerated. If you want exaggerated (or can’t hear it) there are many other options.

Duely noted so the HD560S and the now depreciated HD540 are considered exaggerated yet vocal recessed?

 

[Beagle]

Duely noted so the HD560S and the now depreciated HD540 are considered exaggerated yet vocal recessed?

You’d have to listen I was referring to the HD600. And recordings are different.

 

[draytonklammer]

Hi, thanks for your confidence in our team. I believe we'll address this topic in a later episode, but I'm happy to give some background why it's unfortunately not so trivial for us:
1. Burden of scale: Sennheiser/sonova consumer hearing is many times larger than practically all our competitors in the audiophile space. This also has the disadvantage that our requirements towards manufacturing are very different. Any product or transducer development needs to be set up in a way that makes it scalable and has a high yield that satisfies the expectation of modern manufacturing experts. Most of our efforts in development usually go into improving manufacturing consistency & yield. This structure is simply not a good fit for headphones that only sells a few thousand times a year.
2. Logistics: During the separation of Sennheiser Pro and Consumer, Pro Sennheiser (obviously) kept the manufacturing lines for condenser microphone capsules, where our electrostatic transducers are also assembled. That means that at the moment we don't have manufacturing capacities for electrostatic transducers available. This includes for instance sputtering devices to coat the diaphragm accurately and a clean room for assembly. From a business perspective, building up an entire manufacturing line for a low quantity product line has a very hard time competing with business cases with less up-front capital expenditure. I know that doesn't sound like a sexy reason, but jobs and peoples livelihoods depend on our growth trajectory, so I take it seriously.
3. Perfect is the enemy of better: My personal ambition for a new Sennheiser electrostatic headphone would be to revive the performance of the old HE 90, which to me are the best headphones ever developed. The cost of the glass stators in the old orpheus have increased significantly from 30 years ago. The cost factor between cheap metal stators and the original ones is over 100, and the headphone cost alone would be in the price region of the HE 1, which obviously defeats the purpose. I wish we find an alternative that offers equal stiffness and acoustic transparency, but it doesn't look like it at the moment.

I can assure you that practically every experienced acoustics engineer at the company wishes dearly for that product to come to life. I can't promise you anything, except that we'll do our best to make it happen somehow.

Now THIS was a fun take.
I love hearing about the HE90.
Different design goals and different perspectives.

 

[llysender]

You’d have to listen I was referring to the HD600. And recordings are different.

Yep I was refering as if HD600 was neutral so what I would consider neutral from sennheiser HD560s and HD540 would be exaggerated yet vocal recessed by comparison.

Not sure what you mean have to listen since thats the only way I would come to the conclusion that the HD600 is way too vocal forward yet lacks alot of vocal nuance and extension.

 

[jenkinsontherun]

Too smooth for vocals..

Que...?

Perhaps what the poster meant is that the human voice (and thereby vocals) have a slight roughness to them, that the HD600 fails to convey adequately.

 

[Beagle]

Perhaps what the poster meant is that the human voice (and thereby vocals) have a slight roughness to them, that the HD600 fails to convey adequately.

Are we listening to Janis or Jacintha?

 

[tamleo]

Yep I was refering as if HD600 was neutral so what I would consider neutral from sennheiser HD560s and HD540 would be exaggerated yet vocal recessed by comparison.

Not sure what you mean have to listen since thats the only way I would come to the conclusion that the HD600 is way too vocal forward yet lacks alot of vocal nuance and extension.

I change my amp and my hd6xx changes its mids significantly. From blunt and too forward to airy and laid back lol . My hd800S is not so much and I don’t know why.

 

[llysender]

I change my amp and my hd6xx changes its mids significantly. From blunt and too forward to airy and laid back lol . My hd800S is not so much and I don’t know why.

That is interesting I guess both my dap DX300 w/ amp11mk2 and destop amp fiio k9 pro AKM doesnt mesh well with the HD600 then. Thanks alot for the info.

If you dont mind sharing what amp you are using just in case I run accross it I can hear how the HD600 is actually supposed to sound.

 

[AussieMick]

I’m

I change my amp and my hd6xx changes its mids significantly. From blunt and too forward to airy and laid back lol . My hd800S is not so much and I don’t know why.

THIS! The HD600 is quite the chameleon depending on what comes before it. One of the reasons I adore it - two amps gives me two very different experiences.

 

[headblid]

Excellent excellent video. Thank you Sennheiser folks for answering community questions and educating the masses.

After buying and selling many headphones for 20+ years, I really appreciate the Sennheiser philosophy of putting out good products that have a high shelf life.
with that said, that hd900, or whatever it be called, sure likes to make the fans wait .

 

[omega1990]

Thanks sennheiser for making this video! It was really enjoyable to watch. As for another senny estat, if they don't find it feasible at this time, I understand. Maybe someday I'll listen to one of their estats, maybe at a meet or a canjam.

For me I've been enjoying their iems alot recently the ie600 and ie900 and wonder what else they could do with headphones in the years to come. I really love dynamic headphones the most and we really don't have many options in the totl price range when it comes to dynamic headphones. So many new innovations pushing planars these days (which is awesome for fans of planars), be nice to see if sennheiser could push dynamic headphones even further. The only kilobuck dynamic headphone I've tried is a sony qualia 010 (someday I'll hear a utopia) and it really inspires me into believing dynamic headphones have so much untapped potential.

 

[Tchu1337]

Hi, thanks for your confidence in our team. I believe we'll address this topic in a later episode, but I'm happy to give some background why it's unfortunately not so trivial for us:
1. Burden of scale: Sennheiser/sonova consumer hearing is many times larger than practically all our competitors in the audiophile space. This also has the disadvantage that our requirements towards manufacturing are very different. Any product or transducer development needs to be set up in a way that makes it scalable and has a high yield that satisfies the expectation of modern manufacturing experts. Most of our efforts in development usually go into improving manufacturing consistency & yield. This structure is simply not a good fit for headphones that only sells a few thousand times a year.
2. Logistics: During the separation of Sennheiser Pro and Consumer, Pro Sennheiser (obviously) kept the manufacturing lines for condenser microphone capsules, where our electrostatic transducers are also assembled. That means that at the moment we don't have manufacturing capacities for electrostatic transducers available. This includes for instance sputtering devices to coat the diaphragm accurately and a clean room for assembly. From a business perspective, building up an entire manufacturing line for a low quantity product line has a very hard time competing with business cases with less up-front capital expenditure. I know that doesn't sound like a sexy reason, but jobs and peoples livelihoods depend on our growth trajectory, so I take it seriously.
3. Perfect is the enemy of better: My personal ambition for a new Sennheiser electrostatic headphone would be to revive the performance of the old HE 90, which to me are the best headphones ever developed. The cost of the glass stators in the old orpheus have increased significantly from 30 years ago. The cost factor between cheap metal stators and the original ones is over 100, and the headphone cost alone would be in the price region of the HE 1, which obviously defeats the purpose. I wish we find an alternative that offers equal stiffness and acoustic transparency, but it doesn't look like it at the moment.

I can assure you that practically every experienced acoustics engineer at the company wishes dearly for that product to come to life. I can't promise you anything, except that we'll do our best to make it happen somehow.

Do you have some rough estimation of how long it might take to achieve this dream?