[szore]

Hmm about $750ish

For me, I would look at ibasso dx220, or the A&K sr-15, both a little bit higher in price than your budget, but not by much. The sr-15 I used to own, and I loved it so much i returned it and got the SE-100. I loved THAT one so much, I returned it and got the 1000M!

 

[autosleeper]

Can you confirm if the New Bee and the Symbio Peeled are the same Tip?

Nope, definitely different tips

 

[autosleeper]

You can use an adapter for your Phones...

Oh really? Can you provide linkage please? I’d buy a cable that has two terminations, one SE and one balanced but I dunno if such a product exists.

 

[maira]

You can use an adapter for your Phones...

Oh really? Can you provide linkage please? I’d buy a cable that has two terminations, one SE and one balanced but I dunno if such a product exists.

You can use something like the FiiO LL-4.4M.

 

[Dobrescu George]

There aren't enough emoticons on headfi to express my severe disagreement with that. Don't take this personally @szore - we all have different preferences. But to me, the massively over-boosted 3-4 kHz bump in the CL2s makes them sound like I'm listening through a tin can. I wouldn't use the CL2 if you paid me - life's just too short. I even ran a little poll about this, and most people agree that RHA over-cooked the midrange on the CL2:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rha-cl2-tuning-preferences.894595/

The CL2 do have nice ergonomics and low distortion, but also a pretty thick driver membrane (ten times thicker than those in Audeze's full-sized planars) and they exhibit pretty substantial ringing from an impulse. The CL2's main problem is that tuning though. I've never seen any other IEM have such a severely-boosted midrange.

I also think there's a bit of a myth on headfi in general about cellphones being sub-par. It's true that many of them are, but check out the LG line of quad DAC smartphones. There aren't many DAPs out there - at any price - that can supply 2 Vrms at 1 Ohm or less z-out with less than 0.0005% THD+N via a regular single-ended 3.5 mm socket. The SP1000M can't even compete with that via its balanced output. You should look into the miracle of quality Korean mass-production. They're way better than you'd expect. Way better than most boutique DAPs.

1. The passion with which you speak about CL2 makes me curious about them even more

I had LG V30, it was pretty much at most at the level of FiiO M6 DAP in terms of overall sound. Most headphones won't sound as you want from 2VRMs and very low power, but that would be absolutely amazing with a car audio head, or if using it as a line out... It would work wonders with high impedance cans, I liked V30 with Amiron.

Question on driver flex. I bought a pair used here on classifieds. My left ear piece has a lot of driver flex. Like even the slightest tap on the ear piece results in a "crinkle" sound. What's the consensus on this? Big deal? Could result in damage eventually? Has anyone actually had an IEM fail as a result? Thanks.

It is normal, Xelento does this.

Lol the Be was my first IEM.. I fell for the hype lol

Well, Periodic Audio BE is good for its 300 USD or lower price point. Can't compete with double-the-price-or-even-more Xelento for sure

 

[csglinux]

1. The passion with which you speak about CL2 makes me curious about them even more

Hey George! I hope you get a chance to try them out at some point. They do have awesome ergonomics and isolation. I'll be all over the re-tuned CL3 version Once you've had a decent listen with some EQ on/off over that midrange bump, please go back and vote in that poll. I'm not judging here - but I do find it very surprising that any Xelento owner would prefer the sound of the CL2. Whether you like them or not I think you're going to find the CL2 are an outlier to anything else you've ever heard.

I had LG V30, it was pretty much at most at the level of FiiO M6 DAP in terms of overall sound.

To me this is one of the most fascinating mysteries of the universe - how we can have such different preferences with devices that measure, even into the most non-linear impedance loads, completely ruler flat. I don't discount or dismiss anybody's opinions here - I just don't fully understand where they come from.

I've not heard the M6, but its listed specs aren't as good as those of the X7ii. FiiO lists the M6 THD+N as 0.002% (worse at max output), which is almost an order of magnitude higher than those of the X7ii. And other than crosstalk, the V30 beats the X7ii on every measure. Here they both are into a 32-Ohm load at max output:



Don't pay too much attention to either SNR figure above - they're limited by the pre-amp. And bear in mind that 0.002% means 94 dB below full scale, so THD will be heard well before any noise floor. There are only three reasons I can think of as to why anybody would prefer the M6 to the V30: 1) You weren't using UAPP/Neutron to get bit-perfect playback on the V30, 2) You like the coloration introduced by the harmonic distortion of the M6 or 3) The levels of all of these distortion and noise components are so low that they're all below the threshold of detection by the human ear, and you have some other reasons for preferring the M6? Harmonic distortions might not sound unbearable even at higher levels, but intermodulation distortion should, and that's also higher with the X7ii. (FiiO doesn't give specs for IMD so I don't know what the M6 does there.) I get that not everybody likes looking at measurements, but unless you have the opportunity to listen to all these devices before buying, they're pretty much all you've got. Other people's subjective opinions are just that. And if there's one thing headfi proves on a daily basis, it's that there's no consensus on what sounds the best. Trusting somebody else's subjective rave review is one heck of a crapshoot way to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars.

It is normal, Xelento does this.

Mine don't. I've had several other DD IEMs that exhibited various levels of driver flex, but I'm not sure that's something we should expect from a $1000 IEM. If it were me, I'd ask Beyer for a replacement. They have good customer service; I'm sure they'd oblige. IMHO, it would be disingenuous for a 3rd party seller (selling used Xelentos) to not disclose a problem like that. It's not the risk of them breaking or damaging your hearing - it's that if the driver were to undergo any unintended modal distortions or flex during regular playback, it would almost certainly exhibit increased levels of distortion. It would be interesting to measure those with/without driver flex at normal listening volumes and see...

 

[Dobrescu George]

Hey George! I hope you get a chance to try them out at some point. They do have awesome ergonomics and isolation. I'll be all over the re-tuned CL3 version Once you've had a decent listen with some EQ on/off over that midrange bump, please go back and vote in that poll. I'm not judging here - but I do find it very surprising that any Xelento owner would prefer the sound of the CL2. Whether you like them or not I think you're going to find the CL2 are an outlier to anything else you've ever heard.


To me this is one of the most fascinating mysteries of the universe - how we can have such different preferences with devices that measure, even into the most non-linear impedance loads, completely ruler flat. I don't discount or dismiss anybody's opinions here - I just don't fully understand where they come from.

I've not heard the M6, but its listed specs aren't as good as those of the X7ii. FiiO lists the M6 THD+N as 0.002% (worse at max output), which is almost an order of magnitude higher than those of the X7ii. And other than crosstalk, the V30 beats the X7ii on every measure. Here they both are into a 32-Ohm load at max output:



Don't pay too much attention to either SNR figure above - they're limited by the pre-amp. And bear in mind that 0.002% means 94 dB below full scale, so THD will be heard well before any noise floor. There are only three reasons I can think of as to why anybody would prefer the M6 to the V30: 1) You weren't using UAPP/Neutron to get bit-perfect playback on the V30, 2) You like the coloration introduced by the harmonic distortion of the M6 or 3) The levels of all of these distortion and noise components are so low that they're all below the threshold of detection by the human ear, and you have some other reasons for preferring the M6? Harmonic distortions might not sound unbearable even at higher levels, but intermodulation distortion should, and that's also higher with the X7ii. (FiiO doesn't give specs for IMD so I don't know what the M6 does there.) I get that not everybody likes looking at measurements, but unless you have the opportunity to listen to all these devices before buying, they're pretty much all you've got. Other people's subjective opinions are just that. And if there's one thing headfi proves on a daily basis, it's that there's no consensus on what sounds the best. Trusting somebody else's subjective rave review is one heck of a crapshoot way to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars.


Mine don't. I've had several other DD IEMs that exhibited various levels of driver flex, but I'm not sure that's something we should expect from a $1000 IEM. If it were me, I'd ask Beyer for a replacement. They have good customer service; I'm sure they'd oblige. IMHO, it would be disingenuous for a 3rd party seller (selling used Xelentos) to not disclose a problem like that. It's not the risk of them breaking or damaging your hearing - it's that if the driver were to undergo any unintended modal distortions or flex during regular playback, it would almost certainly exhibit increased levels of distortion. It would be interesting to measure those with/without driver flex at normal listening volumes and see...

Woah, good points, I wasn't using Neutron or UAPP when testing V30. I think at that particular point I was using something like VLC media player lol...

I think that I realy disliked that phone, sorry, but as a phone it was simply terrible. Photo quality just marginally better than my Mi Max, battery life was awful for a smartphone and so small I couldn't stand it. At the point of testing it, I wasn't even using Tidal. Maybe I'll get a chance to reevaluate. Since I had V30 for about 24 hours, maybe my tests weren't fully conclusive (?)

Thing is, at that point, X7mkii beat it easily in terms of control, power, driving power, dynamics (actually audible dynamics), and overall detail. Then again, the V30 I had was not great anyways, not anything like the reviews of it said, so maybe my unit wasn't working well for some reason, I returned it in about 24 hours...

About driver flex, I agree, if the driver is flexed inside while you're wearing the headphone / IEM, it is going to be audible, and I agree that they are best if not doing that, but it shouldn't damage the driver.

 

[csglinux]

Woah, good points, I wasn't using Neutron or UAPP when testing V30. I think at that particular point I was using something like VLC media player lol...

I wouldn't recommend VLC on any device. It has more problems than just the up-sampling issue. I think they artificially crank the gain to make the kids like it, but it adds distortion. BTW, you need to be careful using Tidal too, unfortunately. The native Tidal app only gives bit-perfect playback for 24 bit (MQA) files. More explanations here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/

I think that I realy disliked that phone, sorry, but as a phone it was simply terrible. Photo quality just marginally better than my Mi Max, battery life was awful for a smartphone and so small I couldn't stand it. At the point of testing it, I wasn't even using Tidal. Maybe I'll get a chance to reevaluate. Since I had V30 for about 24 hours, maybe my tests weren't fully conclusive (?)

I can't comment about the camera, because photography's not my thing, but battery life is outstanding with the V30, so it sounds like something was going on with your device. The V30 was too small for you?!? Yikes.

Thing is, at that point, X7mkii beat it easily in terms of control,

I don't know what you mean by that.

power,

Agreed. If you're using balanced-out on the X7ii and you've not used an adapter to force high-impedance mode on the V30.

driving power,

Ditto.

dynamics (actually audible dynamics),

I also don't know what you mean. Dynamic range is a wash between the two.

and overall detail.

To do the V30 justice, you need to be playing back 24 bit files or using the AudioTrack API via Neutron or UAPP, otherwise all 16 bit PCM gets upsampled through the Android mixer.

About driver flex, I agree, if the driver is flexed inside while you're wearing the headphone / IEM, it is going to be audible, and I agree that they are best if not doing that, but it shouldn't damage the driver.

I agree it's unlikely to damage the driver any further

 

[autosleeper]

You can use something like the FiiO LL-4.4M.

Ah ok thanks for this. Not sure I like the idea of sticking that in my Lightning to 3.5 connector though. Adapters going into adapters!

 

[Dobrescu George]

I wouldn't recommend VLC on any device. It has more problems than just the up-sampling issue. I think they artificially crank the gain to make the kids like it, but it adds distortion. BTW, you need to be careful using Tidal too, unfortunately. The native Tidal app only gives bit-perfect playback for 24 bit (MQA) files. More explanations here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/


I can't comment about the camera, because photography's not my thing, but battery life is outstanding with the V30, so it sounds like something was going on with your device. The V30 was too small for you?!? Yikes.

I don't know what you mean by that.

Agreed. If you're using balanced-out on the X7ii and you've not used an adapter to force high-impedance mode on the V30.

Ditto.

I also don't know what you mean. Dynamic range is a wash between the two.


To do the V30 justice, you need to be playing back 24 bit files or using the AudioTrack API via Neutron or UAPP, otherwise all 16 bit PCM gets upsampled through the Android mixer.


I agree it's unlikely to damage the driver any further

Welp, Mi Max 3 has a much slower CPU but a 5000 mAh battery, so V30's battery life, at least the unit I had was very disappointing. I need my phone to last as a GPS Waze device at least 9 hours. V30 was small as a smartphone for my hands, I'm too used to 6.4", and now 7" smartphones.

I think there's a good chance the V30 I had was not working well...

 

[csglinux]

Welp, Mi Max 3 has a much slower CPU but a 5000 mAh battery, so V30's battery life, at least the unit I had was very disappointing. I need my phone to last as a GPS Waze device at least 9 hours. V30 was small as a smartphone for my hands, I'm too used to 6.4", and now 7" smartphones.

Fair enough - I can believe GPS for 9 hours needs some juice. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I wish smartphones would get smaller again. I have the V40 now, and it's just too big.

On the subject of awesomely tiny devices... Anybody here tried their Xelentos with the Shanling M0? M0 has to be one of the best value-for-money audio devices ever made. The size of a matchbox, yet it's a DAP, USB-DAC, BT-DAC, BT/LDAC transmitter. It'll even make you a cup of coffee while you're listening to Porcupine Tree.

 

[autosleeper]

Continuing to love these, especially now I’ve found the ideal tips. they’re looking pretty endgame to me

One weird thing is the remote; earlier this week I had full iPhone functionality but now I’m back to only having the play/pause button working and the volume buttons doing nothing. Does anyone know why this might be? I don’t think it’s the lightning connector as I just got a new one.

 

[autosleeper]

You can use something like the FiiO LL-4.4M.

Just caved in and bought one of these from Penon. It will be pretty ungainly but I’m looking forward to using my pure copper Nicehck with my iPhone

 

[Dobrescu George]

Fair enough - I can believe GPS for 9 hours needs some juice. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I wish smartphones would get smaller again. I have the V40 now, and it's just too big.

On the subject of awesomely tiny devices... Anybody here tried their Xelentos with the Shanling M0? M0 has to be one of the best value-for-money audio devices ever made. The size of a matchbox, yet it's a DAP, USB-DAC, BT-DAC, BT/LDAC transmitter. It'll even make you a cup of coffee while you're listening to Porcupine Tree.

Also BTR3 is nice as an ultra-portable solution for driving them!

 

[szore]

Also BTR3 is nice as an ultra-portable solution for driving them!

I'm listening to the BR3 with my CL2's, right now while my 1000M is in the shop for repairs. I'm astonished with this thing!