[chortya]

Hmmmm... For the fellas who said they are popular in China, I can approve that. But its passed its heydays already. Roughly half of a year ago, the audio (or say headphone) forums in China was flooded by Xelentos. But the heat has somewhat cooled down a lot, and people (including myself) have started to regard it as one of the more horrible earphones in its price.

I must say that Xelento has one, if not the most comfortable wearing experience that I've ever experienced. But its sonic performance is at no match to its wearing. Bloated bass, retreated mid, and an overly dark trebles make it but a milder version of the Sennheiser ie800, which is but worse than the Xelento.

There are definitely still people who buy it, but those are mainly new beginners who aren't familiar with this hobby yet. For the other more experienced players in China, they either choose something completely different or take the t8ie MK2 instead.

Interestenly enough I had similar thoughts today, not so drastic as I like Xelento signature a lot but I would agree with the general description of been very bass centric IEM. I personally see this as positiv as bass does not overpower the rest of the frequencies. Where I have to agree is that the hights are slightly lacking especially in comparison with BA headphones. I was testing KZ ZS10 today and the highs were definetely more present. But man that comfort of Xelentos.. I had Sure SE846 before and RHA T20 and they are far far away. I still see Xelenot as a reference that is hard to match or beat. I personally don't get all that fuzz around Campfire. I was testing multiple Campfires during CanJam in Munich and I really did not get the hype.

 

[Obscene0324]

Well Obscene, that's quite the statement. That must be a very poor source you're using or a bad insertion/ ear tip choice. I have these for a year now and only read such statements on people with a poor seal.

I understand where you are coming from. I've heard similar statements from many others who contested my statements. But in fact, I use an SPKcc for all my listening, and all of the files are from reliable sources under lossless quality. Also, I know the right way of placing Xelento's original ear tips so that they will seal properly. My understanding of Xelento comes under these conditions. Therefore, I believe there is not much that I did wrong, and the conclusion that I've drawn from it should be reliable.

 

[HarlanDraka]

Sorry, but I can’t see the Xelento in this description.At all.Not even with a bad seal.
Instead I sold most of the TOTL Iems I previously had and kept the Xelento.Just to say..

 

[csglinux]

Hmmmm... For the fellas who said they are popular in China, I can approve that. But its passed its heydays already. Roughly half of a year ago, the audio (or say headphone) forums in China was flooded by Xelentos. But the heat has somewhat cooled down a lot, and people (including myself) have started to regard it as one of the more horrible earphones in its price.

I must say that Xelento has one, if not the most comfortable wearing experience that I've ever experienced. But its sonic performance is at no match to its wearing. Bloated bass, retreated mid, and an overly dark trebles make it but a milder version of the Sennheiser ie800, which is but worse than the Xelento.

There are definitely still people who buy it, but those are mainly new beginners who aren't familiar with this hobby yet. For the other more experienced players in China, they either choose something completely different or take the t8ie MK2 instead.

I agree about the fairly prominent mid-bass on the Xelentos. But the T8ie mk2 tilts even warmer than the Xelentos. You sure you didn't have a defective pair? I've heard most of the TOTL (as of 2018) IEMs, and the only ones I'd regard as clearly superior to the Xelentos are the KSE1500 electrostats. Your observations seem to be those of a very small minority. Actually, a minority of one.

What are people in China buying instead? It's not the T8ie mk2, because that's discontinued.

 

[chortya]

It's all about comparison and subjectivity What else did you hear, what source do you use, how is your hearing, what volume do you use, what environment are you listening in.
Just enjoy your IEMs whatever one you like better. Where I agree is that each IEM has specific signature which can be more or less described in general terms if the rest of the factors are at least somehow comparable (source, seal, etc.).

 

[Obscene0324]

Interestenly enough I had similar thoughts today, not so drastic as I like Xelento signature a lot but I would agree with the general description of been very bass centric IEM. I personally see this as positiv as bass does not overpower the rest of the frequencies. Where I have to agree is that the hights are slightly lacking especially in comparison with BA headphones. I was testing KZ ZS10 today and the highs were definetely more present. But man that comfort of Xelentos.. I had Sure SE846 before and RHA T20 and they are far far away. I still see Xelenot as a reference that is hard to match or beat. I personally don't get all that fuzz around Campfire. I was testing multiple Campfires during CanJam in Munich and I really did not get the hype.

It is definitely true that bassy doesn't mean bad, and upon the same logic, a present treble cannot justify a device as prestige. But in the case of Xelento, its troubles come mostly from its lack of mids and a bass which comes with more quantity than quality.

The t8ie mk2 is more like an updated version of the xelento. It presented a rather more enjoyable sound with the same degree of comfort that xelento provides.

Besides, there is one thing that I found strange upon my several fast glimpses of the head-fi forum.

I've only registered and become active on the forum in the recent week. As I'm from China, where access to the head-fi forum is hard because of how things work.

Back in China, we also have our own audio forums. On those forums devices such as "KZ ZS10", which actually originates from China, are barely discussed. As Chinese people, we naturally have more inclinations towards Chinese firms and products, such as Hifiman, Lotoo, and Caiying (though I personally dislike Caiying). But small firms such as KZ are generally disregarded by the majority. However, it felt like that those Chinese products which were neglect in their home country, gained more popularity in Head-fi than in any Chinese forums.

 

[chortya]

I would still be very interested in getting similary sounding BA IEMs to complement Xelento, any suggestions? I want more highs and better separation but same bass/sub-bass.

 

[Obscene0324]

I agree about the fairly prominent mid-bass on the Xelentos. But the T8ie mk2 tilts even warmer than the Xelentos. You sure you didn't have a defective pair? I've heard most of the TOTL (as of 2018) IEMs, and the only ones I'd regard as clearly superior to the Xelentos are the KSE1500 electrostats. Your observations seem to be those of a very small minority. Actually, a minority of one.

What are people in China buying instead? It's not the T8ie mk2, because that's discontinued.

T8ie mk2 does appear to be wormer, but also comes with slightly better treble and much-improved mids. I am only mentioning this because it is both very similar and very different from the Xelento. In the sense that they have almost identical appearances and equally comfortable wearings. But as I would say, the xelento is but an intrinsically flawed piece of work, while the t8ie is an adequate improvement from the xelento.

If I must choose between the two, I will always choose t8ie mk2. But if I have other choices, such as the akg n5005, pp8, or qdc8, I would choose neither xelento or t8ie mk2. Or, even the jvc fd01 may be overall superior to the xelento.

As for what Chinese people like to buy nowadays, I am afraid I cannot give a generalized answer. As there are nearly one and a half billion living Chinese people. But from where I am from - Beijing - the more advanced players in portable devices most favorite products from three firms: Astell&Kern, Final Audio Design, and Ultrasone. Spk is almost a default, with the exception of a few Sony fanboys, and several who prefer lotoo paw gold touch. The choice for portable headphones is mostly Ultrasone j25, ed5ltd, ed8ex (which I currently hold) or tribute 7. The choice for earphone is apparently more diverse. I know of two who favor lcdi4, two for ve13, multiple for u12t, three or four for final labii, numerous for final's piano forte series (which includes me).

I do find coherency with my opinion about xelento with most of my Chinese friends. Also for the opinion on most other devices. Yet, I am certain that the local retailers do still hold some amount of t8ie mk2, while only one guy that I know of own a pair of those.

 

[Obscene0324]

I would still be very interested in getting similary sounding BA IEMs to complement Xelento, any suggestions? I want more highs and better separation but same bass/sub-bass.

If you are looking for iems with an exceptionally good bass and treble, I am afraid I have nothing to advise in this price range. But if you can afford to raise the budget, I would say the qdc8hifi, akg n5005, or an early prototype version of Lightharmonic's Stella (if you can get one) would worth a try.

All that I've listed above are way superior to the xelento. None of the three listed above has any intrinsic problem, and they all have a more impressive, interesting and complete sound signature than those of xelento's.

But instead, if your only looking for an iem which is superior to xelento. A JVC fd01 or a Moondrop present Blessing would do the job with only, or even less than half of xelento's price. Though they are of very different sound signatures.

 

[Syracuse]

Hi Obscene, it has been previously discussed that the Xelento is a finicky In-ear and I've noticed many different preferences in ear-tip choices in this thread because it behaves very differently with each person.
I don't think the original tips are bad but they didn't work well for me. I'm using the large W mandarins and they work wonders for my ears.

My point is I've been slowly tuning the sound of the Xelento to a higher level. The Xelento is very sensitive to each improvement and necessarily so since the previous set-ups started to bore me sound wise. A Xelento can sound the way you describe when something is off or when it doesn't like the source. I've tested it with a last gen AK70II and an AK300. They sounded a little to smooth for me with an image that was very polished and slightly boring after a while. My first AK100II got sold quite quickly because I just stopped caring about the sound.

I'm not saying you have to buy my set-up but that it's very possible you'll have to try some more gear to find a signature you'll like since they can behave unpredictable. It's also possible the Xelento just isn't for you and after your explanation I presume that's the case. I've had two recent €1000+ BA ciems so I know what kind of level a 1K iem should achieve and your explanation doesn't even come close to my experience so something must be really off in your set-up or you like to exaggerate.

 

[csglinux]

. But as I would say, the xelento is but an intrinsically flawed piece of work, while the t8ie is an adequate improvement from the xelento.

No problem with you preferring another headphone, but your choice of language is poor. The Xelento was the successor to the t8ie, not the other way around. Also, just because your own hearing needs more treble doesn't make the Xelento "intrinsically flawed". I tend to be fairly sensitive to treble and don't enjoy bright-sounding headphones - however I don't call them "intrinsically flawed". There's an arrogance to that statement that implies you know what you're talking about and the rest of us are suckers.

This is just a friendly suggestion to you as a new headfi member. There are ways of saying things that don't need to be insulting. It comes off as a bit brash when you register a brand new account (only yesterday) and immmediately use it to trash a well-respected headphone.

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

As always... YMMV. I own both the BD Xelento and the A&K T8ie MKII. In my case, I had the AK first, and chose to get the Xelento to complement them.

For my taste, with my music, and my equipment, I love both. I tend to use the A&Ks when I know I want to listen to EDM, Rap, R&B, and some Rock etc, where the music is more "fun".

The A&Ks are absolutely sufficient with any kind of music, but to my ears, the mid-bass can be a bit too much compared to the sound profile I prefer with other types of music. I generally use both IEMs them with portable sources, but they've both been used with desktop equipment.

For a long plane ride, the A&Ks are my go-to. I use an iEMatch with or w/o an adapter, and it works great with plane audio sources for movies. I use the iEMatch with an iPhone on full volume on Ultra and it sounds darn good. I also use iPhone to iDSD Micro (or Nano) BL and other DAPs. They both sound great on all, I don't think my opinions of either would change based on source.

Purportedly, but as yet unverified from any reliable source I can find, the AKs were tuned for AK DAPs. What I can say first hand, is that yes, they do shine with an AK 380. However, that DAP (to my ears and the ears of others) is known to be a bit "bass-shy".

This form factor (for my ear shape) is the most comfortable of all IEMs I've had the good fortune to try or buy. Tips can be used to shape the signature a bit, but in my case they are the least tip sensitive IEMs I've tried. No muss, no fuss. Medium or large stock silicon tips in both work fine for me. I personally don't like the included Comply tips, SpinFits or any other tips I've tried. That's just me and my ears...

Sound comparisons (to me) - using the exact same source material and amplification with a by-ear attempt to level match with pink noise and go from there... Not scientific, but hopefully helpful

Overall sound description -
- Both have what I'd consider a warm presentation, helped out by the bass presence in both.
- Soundstage - dealer's choice. For some live music, I think the soundstage opens up slightly with the Xelentos. Alison Krauss Live is magic with these. On the test disc, I couldn't reliably tell the difference, but I may try again.
- Bass The A&K is warmer, and pushes the bass up. The mid-bass on certain tracks with the A&K can be a bit much. If I have music that's more vocal present - for example Norah Jones' Sunrise - the standup bass at the beginning and throughout is a bit distracting and too present to me.
For Norah - Xelento's. For Usher - A&Ks. For The Who... Dealer's choice.
- Mids - I'd say the A&Ks barely have slightly duller mids compared to the Xelento. This is a forced result, and I could change my mind tomorrow. I think both have exceptional mids.
- Treble - I prefer the Xelento's treble presentation. They have a touch more of that "sparkle" for cymbals, chimes etc to my ears and add a touch more realism.

This is with the same ears, same gear, level-matched (by-ear). I used some very familiar tunes along with Chesky's Ultimate Headphone Demonstration disc. All music was lossless 44.1, 96, or 192 through Audirvana (MacBook Pro) to an iDSD Micro BL.

For those considering the Xelento's. IMO, if I could only have one IEM balancing comfort and sound for all uses. It's it for me. However, comfort for me plays a huge role, and they fit me wonderfully. I have not gone the CIEM route (yet).

[Edit - Never knew space bar posted...] Finishing up

 

[money4me247]

@ItsAllInMyHead , enjoyed reading your comparison. helpful & interesting

I politely disagree with obscene's comments on the xelento, but I respect his perspective. I can see people preferring other IEMs over the xelento, but for me, while I still have quite a few totl IEMs & over-ears, I do really enjoy the xelento & use them very frequently still. I think the Xelento is a really good reference point for a TOTL dynamic driver in-ear.

the different perspectives in the chinese market is quite interesting. some of my friends over there view chinese brands as inferior to overseas brands while others really like to support chinese companies.

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

@ItsAllInMyHead , enjoyed reading your comparison. helpful & interesting

I politely disagree with obscene's comments on the xelento, but I respect his perspective. I can see people preferring other IEMs over the xelento, but for me, while I still have quite a few totl IEMs & over-ears, I do really enjoy the xelento & use them very frequently still. I think the Xelento is a really good reference point for a TOTL dynamic driver in-ear.

the different perspectives in the chinese market is quite interesting. some of my friends over there view chinese brands as inferior to overseas brands while others really like to support chinese companies.

Always. Yes, you were very polite, IMO.

One of the trickiest things with anything in audio is the subjectivity. I try my best to never disagree with anyone re: anything subjective. My preferences are not in-line with everyone else's. On many occasions I can hear what others describe, but I may not assess its relative importance the same way. Overall, until people listen with their own ears, it's all guess-work. Having lived in Asia for quite some time, I do my best (as you seem to do also) to give people with English as a second language the benefit of the doubt with translation and "directness". What might take me <30s to type up with an attempt to convey nuance can take someone a tremendous amount of time to think through, find the words, and type. They could be looking for the closest word. So, I try my best to not get to hung up when words like "inferior" etc, get used. It may be loosely translated. However, I'll let him or her speak for themselves. They may think the product truly sucks beans...

At get-togethers and at stores, I find that my personal preferences for sound against my Japanese colleagues tend to go warmer. With my friends in China, it depends on the music and my friends. My friends that are younger tend to gravitate toward bass. The new Cascade over ear is a hit, as is the Atlas. I personally find both not to my liking. It also depends on what they've been exposed to and the music they like. Some are "on the quest for the best".... some go with what they personally like and measurements. Some would trust a reviewer's opinion (or a high-ranking social circle friend) over their own ears. Some want to show affluence and prestige and others like music... Some will buy the latest fad IEM in X years b/c it has 27 drivers and costs 10k. YMMV.

Glad it was helpful and interesting. The main point, is that I like both. I also like many other IEMs, but if I had to just pick one.... and could not have any others.... for now, it's the Xelento. The proverbial "desert island" choice. It works so well with all varieties of music, and it's source friendly. Once I get my first pair of custom IEMs, I may change my mind.

 

[Obscene0324]

No problem with you preferring another headphone, but your choice of language is poor. The Xelento was the successor to the t8ie, not the other way around. Also, just because your own hearing needs more treble doesn't make the Xelento "intrinsically flawed". I tend to be fairly sensitive to treble and don't enjoy bright-sounding headphones - however I don't call them "intrinsically flawed". There's an arrogance to that statement that implies you know what you're talking about and the rest of us are suckers.

This is just a friendly suggestion to you as a new headfi member. There are ways of saying things that don't need to be insulting. It comes off as a bit brash when you register a brand new account (only yesterday) and immmediately use it to trash a well-respected headphone.

I believe there are two aspects to all audio devices: the subjective one and objective one. Subjectively, just like how you dislike bright sounds, I dislike bassy sounds, especially when it has a poor treble. But on the objective part, I would not dishonor a device simply because it is bass-oriented. For example, Noble Kaiser Encore, Jomo audio Flamenco (with both treble and bass boost on), the early prototype of Lightharmonic's Stella, and Jaben Oriolus are all relatively bass-oriented iems. But also, they are all praise-worthy pieces by itself, with unique and brilliant designs. They might not fit my personal favors, but that would have rarely an impact on how I judge their designs simply as an earphone. They are all by the nature of their design, a good piece of work.
But in the case of Xelento, it has not the uniqueness nor the brilliance and comes with un-spinnable problems. In particular, it is both the over presence of bass and the under presence of mids and trebles. Or in a very exaggerated way of speaking, it has nothing but bass.
As I've pointed out, this is a very exaggerated expression of xelento's flaw. But it catches the very core of its problem: the neglection of mid-frequencies almost entirely. This does slightly widen its soundstage, as a thin mid-frequency will by nature. But on the contrary, because of its neglection of midrange, the vocals, and some instruments are pushed to the margins, its imaging and separation are also bad due to it. All that's filling my ears are its bass. This is definitely not something that would be considered as a "good" sound.
And now, that is what I mean by being "intrinsically flawed".

Well, with all these talks about the xelento, it would be hard to not mention the Sennheiser ie800 (the older ones). Xelento and ie800 have almost the completely identical flaws. Meaning over emphasis on bass, and neglection on mid and high frequency. But the ie800, especially the older ones, are deeper into this flaws. Meaning that it has an only weaker mid-freq than the xelento.

For the t8ie that you mentioned, that was a mistake that I've made. I was meaning the t8ie mk2 instead of the t8ie itself, but that "mk2" slipped from my fingers. Sorry for the confusion that it provoked.

Also, thanks for the advice. It would indeed look weird for a newly-registered account to speak of such things. But my involvement into audiophile extends long beyond my involvement into this forum, as I've only gained easy access to this forum lately. The posts that I post on this forum consist of nothing else but what I strongly believe, which endured many contests and questions throughout time, but still remains. I speak honestly and truly, with not any exceptions until now. And, requoting what I've said in another way, I would not disqualify nor force myself into believing the sayings of others because of a device's reputation or respect. That decision is made primarily by my experience and understandings of the given device. If I've never tried it, or feels that I have not a thorough experience regarding a device, I would rather plainly state that I have not the adequate amount of experience with it; I cannot, and will not put forth any judgments or saying in that situation.