[Malevolent]

I have the T5p (2nd edition) and like them a lot. Nevertheless, is there a detailed SQ comparison betweem the 2nd and 3rd editions?
Regarding the 3rd edition's pads, are those the same as the 2nd's (material and inner width)?

Thanks. .

I wish that I could be a bit more detailed than this, but I had a limited amount of time (3 hours+). Nevertheless, I compared the T5p (2nd Gen) with the T5 (3rd Gen) in this post.

I actually like the 3rd Gen model a lot more; its signature is more pleasing to my ears than the outgoing model. I'm not saying that it is better in an objective sense, since the change in tuning provides the basis for the variances in sound characteristics between the 2 models.

 

[zolom]

The T5p pads are the only complaint I got, cause it slightly hurt my outer era lobes. Are those pads more roomy on the T5?

 

[Malevolent]

The T5p pads are the only complaint I got, cause it slightly hurt my outer era lobes. Are those pads more roomy on the T5?

The pads are similar in size, thickness and volume. The pads on my own T5p (2nd Gen) were over a year old by then, so it felt just that little bit softer. Still, I didn't detect any noticeable differences in comfort when I auditioned the 2 together. As the dimension of the pads hasn't noticeably increased, I felt the same pressure on the extreme edges of my ears.

 

[bflat]

Decided to get the T5 gen 3. Unfortunately I never tried the gen 2 and only previously owned the gen 1 so that is all I can compare. Out of the box, my initial thoughts are:

• I remember Gen 1 feeling a lot bigger and loose compared to Gen 3
• Gen 3 looks fantastic!
• Gen 3 has pretty tight clamping force right out of the box.
• Initial sound impressions (out of box)
  • At first the upper bass around 200-300 hz was too much for me and bled into the mids. At the same time, I felt like my head was in a vice grip - it was so tight and the pads were pretty compressed. I have a pretty average size noggin.
  • I remember Beyer headbands are designed for some give so I gently spread out the ear cups a couple times and voila, much more comfortable fit but still completely sealed. Remember this if you think it sounds too bass heavy! It's the same with any closed headphone. Even with proper seal, if you press down on the cups you will get an immediate elevation in the upper bass region.
  • Post fit adjustment, what can I say at this point - I like it a lot!
    • Nice low end extension that is both some oomph but accurate layers. Definitely not bass head levels. Sounds like a mild v on the low end. Completely opposite of the anemic Gen 1 where you needed a bungee cord to get a proper seal for serviceable low end.
    • Mids are also opposite of Gen 1 - full, just north of neutral with nice detail in the upper region, but no sibilance. vocals sound correct whereas Gen 1 had a nasal quality to altos and sopranos.
    • Highs are certainly toned down quite a bit from Gen 1. I think treble is pretty neutral and has plenty of extension and separation. With Gen 1, pretty much everything had a metallic sheen in the upper frequencies. With Gen 3, only metallic instruments had metallic sheen.
    • Overall, I find T5 Gen 3 to be a natural sounding tone with very high technical chops. Very musical but I can hear all the nuances of my favorite tracks. Gen 1 was clinical and analytical.
• The included cable - OMG I hate it! It is flat so it doesn't twist, but it keeps forming loops! No matter, I was going together a balanced cable made anyway.
• The included case - why is it so damn big? I can almost fit 2 in there!
• Packaging - basically just a box to hold the case. No aluminum presentation case like Gen 1, but probably a cost savings move which I agree with.

My initial impressions were on a Sony TA-ZH1es which is a source that is more on the musical side than analytical so T5 Gen 3 could be a little more neutral than what I experienced on a truly neutral source (sorry I don't have any). Will note any changes after about 100 hrs of burn in and when I get my balanced cable.

 

[Malevolent]

Decided to get the T5 gen 3. Unfortunately I never tried the gen 2 and only previously owned the gen 1 so that is all I can compare. Out of the box, my initial thoughts are:

• I remember Gen 1 feeling a lot bigger and loose compared to Gen 3
• Gen 3 looks fantastic!
• Gen 3 has pretty tight clamping force right out of the box.
• Initial sound impressions (out of box)
  • At first the upper bass around 200-300 hz was too much for me and bled into the mids. At the same time, I felt like my head was in a vice grip - it was so tight and the pads were pretty compressed. I have a pretty average size noggin.
  • I remember Beyer headbands are designed for some give so I gently spread out the ear cups a couple times and voila, much more comfortable fit but still completely sealed. Remember this if you think it sounds too bass heavy! It's the same with any closed headphone. Even with proper seal, if you press down on the cups you will get an immediate elevation in the upper bass region.
  • Post fit adjustment, what can I say at this point - I like it a lot!
    • Nice low end extension that is both some oomph but accurate layers. Definitely not bass head levels. Sounds like a mild v on the low end. Completely opposite of the anemic Gen 1 where you needed a bungee cord to get a proper seal for serviceable low end.
    • Mids are also opposite of Gen 1 - full, just north of neutral with nice detail in the upper region, but no sibilance. vocals sound correct whereas Gen 1 had a nasal quality to altos and sopranos.
    • Highs are certainly toned down quite a bit from Gen 1. I think treble is pretty neutral and has plenty of extension and separation. With Gen 1, pretty much everything had a metallic sheen in the upper frequencies. With Gen 3, only metallic instruments had metallic sheen.
    • Overall, I find T5 Gen 3 to be a natural sounding tone with very high technical chops. Very musical but I can hear all the nuances of my favorite tracks. Gen 1 was clinical and analytical.
• The included cable - OMG I hate it! It is flat so it doesn't twist, but it keeps forming loops! No matter, I was going together a balanced cable made anyway.
• The included case - why is it so damn big? I can almost fit 2 in there!
• Packaging - basically just a box to hold the case. No aluminum presentation case like Gen 1, but probably a cost savings move which I agree with.

My initial impressions were on a Sony TA-ZH1es which is a source that is more on the musical side than analytical so T5 Gen 3 could be a little more neutral than what I experienced on a truly neutral source (sorry I don't have any). Will note any changes after about 100 hrs of burn in and when I get my balanced cable.

Thanks for your impressions; they mirror mine pretty closely. Like you, I think that the new T5 has an organic sound that plays well with myriad genres of music. The shift from a brighter headphone to a more balanced one, albeit with a slight tilt towards a more vigorous low-end region pulls the sound in a completely different direction. I didn't like the 1st Generation T5p, and I found its successor, the 2nd Gen model a little more palatable, but it was still a little too sibilant in its highs. With the introduction of the 3rd Gen, the T5 comes ever closer to matching my sonic preferences.

 

[bflat]

Thanks for your impressions; they mirror mine pretty closely. Like you, I think that the new T5 has an organic sound that plays well with myriad genres of music. The shift from a brighter headphone to a more balanced one, albeit with a slight tilt towards a more vigorous low-end region pulls the sound in a completely different direction. I didn't like the 1st Generation T5p, and I found its successor, the 2nd Gen model a little more palatable, but it was still a little too sibilant in its highs. With the introduction of the 3rd Gen, the T5 comes ever closer to matching my sonic preferences.

Would it be accurate to say that Gen 1 to Gen 2 difference is greater than difference between Gen 2 to Gen 3?

I definitely feel that T5 Gen 3 needs a pretty specific amount of pad pressure to sound the best - sealed, but not too much beyond that. As I mentioned in my initial impressions, the out of box Gen 3 was really tight and I think that will be the case for most folks. Gently spread the band a bit to loosen the pressure and lower that bass to mid region. Just taking them on/off your head several time will prolly loosen the band up as well. Fortunately, my ears just fit inside the pads and after adjusting the band, I listened for about 2 hours is complete comfort.

Maybe it's just an optical illusion, but I swear the black cups looks 50% smaller than the original silver ones on the Gen 1.

 

[Malevolent]

Would it be accurate to say that Gen 1 to Gen 2 difference is greater than difference between Gen 2 to Gen 3?

I definitely feel that T5 Gen 3 needs a pretty specific amount of pad pressure to sound the best - sealed, but not too much beyond that. As I mentioned in my initial impressions, the out of box Gen 3 was really tight and I think that will be the case for most folks. Gently spread the band a bit to loosen the pressure and lower that bass to mid region. Just taking them on/off your head several time will prolly loosen the band up as well. Fortunately, my ears just fit inside the pads and after adjusting the band, I listened for about 2 hours is complete comfort.

Maybe it's just an optical illusion, but I swear the black cups looks 50% smaller than the original silver ones on the Gen 1.

I would say that the shift is more apparent from the 2nd Gen to the 3rd Gen. I haven't heard the original T5p in some time now, but I distinctly remember thinking, during my first audition, that the 2nd Gen T5p sounded like the OG, just with less treble and more bass. However, the essence of the T5p could still be discerned - Beyerdynamic simply chose to modify the frequency ends to derive a more consumer-friendly signature.

However, with the newest revision, I didn't feel that it belonged to the T5 family at all. It is more appropriate, IMO, if it was given its own category, say, a "T7", or something similar, to denote its independent lineage.

 

[bflat]

With about 100 hours burn in, I don't hear too much of a change. Maybe a tad brighter. The big change in tone was proper fit as I described in my prior post. If there is a benefit to burn in, it was lost to me considering how much the low end changed when I relieved some pressure off the ear pads. Initial impressions are largely unchanged, but I'll add the following:

• Soundstage is good for closed headphone, better than average. Width and depth are nicely balanced. The Senn HD820 still remains top as far as soundstage goes.
• Sound isolation is ok for external sounds when listening at med to high levels. Well short of ANC headphones. Sound bleed is controlled very well. At normal listening levels, this shouldn't bother anyone in the same room unless they have rabbit like ears and hearing. Much better isolation than HD820.
• I never realized how strong the magnets where. I can definitely feel the magnets pulling the connector plug when close to the cups.

Still waiting on my balance cable, but T5 Gen 3 was exactly what I was hoping for - musical, natural tone with a solid technical foundation. I ended up selling my HD820 some time ago due to poor should isolation and default tuning that only worked with about 75% of the genres I listen to (with some light EQ). I also didn't like the fact that getting a proper seal required 5 min of fidgeting every time I put them on. I've looking a closed back replacement since the HD820 and I think the T5 Gen 3 is it.

 

[bflat]

Ending comments - I've been listening with my new balanced cable and yes, it does sound better - extension, separation, soundstage. However that's has more to do with my sources which are all optimized for the balanced output. If you have a great single ended source, it will sound great.

Last comments and impressions for the T5 Gen 3 are my criticisms:

• It's still a closed back headphone. There is a reason why there are so many more options for open back headphones at the high end versus closed back. If you have a listening environment that works for open back, that will give you the best listening experience with the bonus of much better dollar to performance ratio. Please, no asking for comparisons of the T5 to open backs like my Utopias.
• Being closed back, I do hear some unwanted low frequency resonances in the T5 that overshadows the lowest sub bass frequencies. The only closed back headphone that seemed to eliminate this was the HD820 with that crazy concave glass back and resonance ejection ports. However, at that point you have to ask, why even try to be a closed back when the sound isolation is not that much better than open? At least T5 does a good job of keeping external noises muted and contain sound bleed.
• As some have said, the ear pads look big from the outside but are pretty thick inside so there is much less space to fit ears completely inside the pads. Fortunately, my own ears just clear, but I think a decent number of folks will find some of their ear lobe getting pinched by the pads. The T5P Gen 1 has much thinner pads in this regard.
• Included cable - as I mentioned before, it's a flat cable that has horrible ergonomics because it loops and is pretty stiff. Cable upgrade is highly recommended so factor that into cost.
• 32 ohm input impedance - probably not an issue for most, but many high powered desktop amps have pretty high output impedance as high as 10 ohms. The max output impedance you would want for T5 is 4 ohms or less. Most TOTL headphones have impedances 100+ ohms.
• I can't complete this sentence - "the T5 Gen 3 has the best xxxxxxx I've heard from a headphone".

Taking my criticisms together with my earlier impressions, I think most folks who try the T5 Gen 3 (assuming proper fit) will find it to be a good to great closed back option. For T5 to be a "great" option for you, it would mean the following:

• You understand the limitations for closed back, but need the sound isolation.
• You are looking for an organic, natural tone that favors an emotional listening experience versus analytical.
• You want lightweight and comfort - with the caveat that your ears fit inside the pads.
• You want to use both portable and lower power desktop amps, all with low output impedances.
• You have a grand to spend LOL

 

[rasmushorn]

It is about time I get my review of the T5 published. It is posted here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/beyerdynamic-t5-3rd-generation.24690/

And here it is for this thread as well:

Beyerdynamic T5

I received the T5 for review purposes through a connection at the Danish Beyerdynamic distributor of the professional Beyerdynamic product-line. I have them on loan for some days to spend time with them and then they have to go back to Beyerdynamic again. I am not associated with either Beyerdynamic or the danish distributor in any way, so I can share my sincere impressions with no strings attached. Here it goes…

I recommend that you read my impressions of the T1.3, (found here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/beyerdynamic-t1-3rd-gen-out-now.938562/post-15868396 ) I sort of went through the same journey with T5.

September 11th, right out of the box.
Right after listening to T1.3, where I in the beginning thought there was too much bass impact, it was pleasure to shift over to T5. It has a bit more balanced sound and a tiny bit less darker sounding than T1.3. The bass in T5 is not a dominating as I felt it was in T1 in the beginning. Compared to what I was used to listen to (ER-4XR and DT1770) there is still not the same treble and upper mids sparkle as I like from DT-1770 Pro. At this point I am not sure neither T5 nor T1.3 is something for me. The signature is just too dark for what I normally like.

Listening to jazz I hear a T5 that is really good at acoustic bass. But bass still has a bit too much energy sometimes. It just tips the whole balance over to become too dark and there is no joy in listening to them for me at this point.

September 15th
If you read my impressions of the T1.3, (found here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/beyerdynamic-t1-3rd-gen-out-now.938562/post-15868396 ) you will know how I have been using them for a while without the dampening pads that cover the drivers. I did remove the pads also on the T5 and I initially liked the sound better without the pads because my ears was not adjusted to the bass impact. I spend some time listening to T5 without the dampening pads and I never really connected with the sound. Even though there is less bass, and I like that I could take some of the low end energy away, there is also a wrong balance I the mids and treble. I am not able to point out in what exact Hz-region there is too much energy, like a lot of other people can, but snare-drums on some recordings just gave me listening fatigue without the pads. There are some resonances or sharpness, that make the sound too harsh and it is clear that the dampening pads play an important role in the T5 signature.

After a conversation with Günter Weidemann from Beyerdynamic, the product manager of both T1 an T5, I was convinced that the pads were in fact intended to stay in place and that I just had to spend some more time listening to the fuller bass and get used to more impact in the low end. I think the T5 sounds worse than T1 without the pads in their place and it is clear to hear that it had to go back to its place.

Like with the T1.3 the new T5 is not just a minor update to the former T5ps. The T5 is redesigned in several ways. Günter Weidemann wrote the following to me: “Beside of the dampers as being part of the outer damping, the inner damping of the driver is also modified, in order to achieve the intended balance between inner and outer damping. And the dampers of T5 are even different to the ones of T1 for independent optimisation of the sound signature.”

This made me a bit curious and I took a look inside the T5 to see if I could spot the differences. As far as I can see from old pictures of T5p the mesh over the driver looks a bit thicker, also there is a filter in the middle of the air-vent over the driver itself that play a significant role in the tuning the sound. Otherwise there does not seem to be any immediate changes in the house where the driver sits. Whatever the changes are, it is clear that T5 is not the same as T5p gen 1 or 2 and it is also a clear answer to the ones who think that removing the dampening pad and mounting the T5p2 cushion will make this a T5p2. It will not!

September 21st
Now, I am back with the dampening pads in their place and I can now appreciate the sound. I can now hear that they should indeed NOT be removed. Again, when adjusting to a new signature it is just important to spend enough time with new headphones - and speakers as well - before you can know how they really sound.

I am listening to “Black Rider” from the new Bob Dylan album “Rough and Rowdy Ways” and WOW his voice sounds soo good. It it presented with such clarity and detail. Also, there are some drum-hits in the background. They are so far out of the soundstage that I thought I could hear someone knocking on my front-door a couple of times. The soundstage that I hear with T5 is VERY good maybe some of the best I have heard for a closed headphone. Such an open sound and with space around the instruments. Again, I hear the T5 as being just a bit brighter than the T1.3. The bass is hitting a tiny bit harder in T1.3 than T5 but the music flows easily in both headphones. It is clear that both headphones are aiming at a more natural sound and not for the analytical mids or treble demanding listeners.

September 24th
Today I had time to do a little A/B testing with my current closed reference headphone the DT-1770 and T5. One thing I immediately hear is a big difference in how the two headphones brings voices forward. In 1770 vocals are placed in the center of the music in T5 they are placed further backwards. Bass has more impact with T5. 1770 has the brighter signature of the two but there is an ease, a relaxed way of playing the music that is really satisfying in T5. T5 has a nice slam and punch in the bass, more texture in the low end more dynamic range in all frequencies. Drums and percussion instruments are played fast and with a real tight pace. With a lot of space and more ease, yet totally controlled.

In some recordings I do tend to get a little listening fatigue from snare drums in T5, I also do sometimes hear a thin veil with T5 that is not there in 1770. On the other hand sometimes the music can be a bit flat and lifeless with 1770 when changing directly from T5. I am talking about small differences here. But that exact thing that made me buy the 1770 in the beginning, lifelike sound and naturalness of instruments, the T5 just do better.

The main difference is still a noticeable darker sound in T5, less mids and treble presence. I can appreciate both headphones and if I wasn’t sitting here changing back and forth all the time I can enjoy both headphones in each their way. They are clearly created with different purposes in mind. 1770 is a professional more analytical “tool” and the T5 is for music and listening pleasure.

There is less space inside the T5 ear-cups than DT-1770. With T5, my ears touch the cushions with 1770 my ears do not touch the cushions around the ears but barely touch the material covering the drivers. The T5-cups feel smaller on the inside. T5 is also lighter to wear with 360 gram. DT-1770 weighs 388 gram. 1770 has a bit mor clamping force and grip around the head and that make the T5 more comfortable to wear. Not a night and day difference but it is noticeable when changing between the two.

T5 will definitely be on my wishlist, but I do prefer the sound of the new T1.3 over the T5. I do not need the isolation from a closed headphone where they will be used. T1.3 has the edge in transparency and with the new 32 Ohm driver, T1 is a versatile headphone that sounds great with both my portable amplifiers and my Meier Daccord+Classic at home. If you are looking for a closed headphone with a natural way of presenting music, you will not be disappointed with the new T5.

Listening gear:
24 / 48 FLAC, Audirvana on a MacBook Pro.
USB out to Meier Daccord ff, Chord Mojo or iFi Hip-dac.
Amplifiers: Meier Classic ff, Meier Corda Quickstep, Chord Mojo or iFi hip-dac.

 

[supil34]

rasmushorn ,
the stamp with the date on the driver's partition - 08.18 from T5P gen2?

is there the same photo with the new driver?

 

[rasmushorn]

rasmushorn ,
the stamp with the date on the driver's partition - 08.18 from T5P gen2?

is there the same photo with the new driver?

Well spotted! That part is - from what I can determine from pictures of T5p.2 the same. It seems to be different from T5p.1 though. Same holes and form etc. but the mesh over the speaker seems thicker on T5 than on old T5p.2. But I have not seen the T5p.2 in real life only pictures. But the main difference is the center dampener in the middle hole in the driver, the black plastic part with the cross in the middle. THAT can totally change the sound and it is very different from pictures of T5p-drivers I can find around the internet.

 

[rasmushorn]

Some pictures I can find of the old T5p.2 driver. (not verified but random google search.)

 

[bflat]

Some pictures I can find of the old T5p.2 driver. (not verified but random google search.)

The driver frame is different on the T5.3 from the photos. It would appear there are several changes from the T5P.2

 

[borrego]

All the pictures which are showing the drivers mounted without the black plastic washers, are actually T5p 1st generation.
The picture which is showing the drivers mounted with the black plastic washers, a rubber bumper at the edge of the drivers, a sonic damper in the inserted in the middle, is T5p 2nd generation (or 3rd generation).

Beyerdynamics remove the "ribs" on the driver baffle frame from the 2nd generation, making the frame less stiff and the resonance frequency lower.